• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD "Navi 12" Silicon Powering the Radeon Pro 5600M Rendered

Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
2,792 (0.99/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
AMD has no efficiency advantage in the mobile space.
I've seen reviews of a 100W~ 5600M losing to a 90W RTX 2060 by 10% or so.


The video you linked clearly shows the 2060 system consuming more power. TDP does not equal power consumption. I'm tired of repeating this.

In addition, you cherry picked your 10% number. That's 10% at Maximum details settings, which in many games (being a laptop GPU) isn't a good experience. At high settings the lead is closer to 6% and at medium about 2%.

On top of that the GPU being discussed in the article is the Radeon Pro 5600M, which is a completely different piece of silicon. If Navi 12 is based on RDNA2, which is highly likely, it will be significantly more power efficient then existing chips. AMD is claiming a 50% increase in performance per watt with Navi 2. Of course, just having HBM instead of GDDR means power savings as well.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
853 (0.37/day)
Location
Asia
Processor Intel Core i5 4590
Motherboard Gigabyte Z97x Gaming 3
Cooling Intel Stock Cooler
Memory 8GiB(2x4GiB) DDR3-1600 [800MHz]
Video Card(s) XFX RX 560D 4GiB
Storage Transcend SSD370S 128GB; Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB HDD
Display(s) Samsung S20D300 20" 768p TN
Case Cooler Master MasterBox E501L
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Corsair VS450
Mouse A4Tech N-70FX
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores BaseMark GPU : 250 Point in HD 4600
On top of that the GPU being discussed in the article is the Radeon Pro 5600M, which is a completely different piece of silicon. If Navi 12 is based on RDNA2, which is highly likely, it will be significantly more power efficient then existing chips. AMD is claiming a 50% increase in performance per watt with Navi 2. Of course, just having HBM instead of GDDR means power savings as well.
Navi12 is RDNA1, not RDNA2. RDNA2 gpus will have Navi2x naming scheme.
 

M2B

Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
284 (0.11/day)
Location
Iran
Processor Intel Core i5-8600K @4.9GHz
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon
Cooling Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240L RGB
Memory XPG 8GBx2 - 3200MHz CL16
Video Card(s) Asus Strix GTX 1080 OC Edition 8G 11Gbps
Storage 2x Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Display(s) BenQ PD3200U
Case Thermaltake View 71 Tempered Glass RGB Edition
Power Supply EVGA 650 P2
The video you linked clearly shows the 2060 system consuming more power. TDP does not equal power consumption. I'm tired of repeating this.

In addition, you cherry picked your 10% number. That's 10% at Maximum details settings, which in many games (being a laptop GPU) isn't a good experience. At high settings the lead is closer to 6% and at medium about 2%.

On top of that the GPU being discussed in the article is the Radeon Pro 5600M, which is a completely different piece of silicon. If Navi 12 is based on RDNA2, which is highly likely, it will be significantly more power efficient then existing chips. AMD is claiming a 50% increase in performance per watt with Navi 2. Of course, just having HBM instead of GDDR means power savings as well.

Total system power consumption is different because those are different laptops with many different parts. I can't believe I have to explain that.
And yes, TDP mostly equals power consumption.
I didn't say anything about this specific apple GPU, I just said AMD has no efficiency advantage.
 

iO

Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
526 (0.12/day)
Location
Germany
Processor R7 5700x
Motherboard MSI B450i Gaming
Cooling Accelero Mono CPU Edition
Memory 16 GB VLP
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6700 XT
Storage P34A80 512GB
Display(s) LG 27UM67 UHD
Case none
Power Supply SS G-650
What a shame it's Apple exclusive. This would make such a lovely ITX card...
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
853 (0.37/day)
Location
Asia
Processor Intel Core i5 4590
Motherboard Gigabyte Z97x Gaming 3
Cooling Intel Stock Cooler
Memory 8GiB(2x4GiB) DDR3-1600 [800MHz]
Video Card(s) XFX RX 560D 4GiB
Storage Transcend SSD370S 128GB; Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB HDD
Display(s) Samsung S20D300 20" 768p TN
Case Cooler Master MasterBox E501L
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Corsair VS450
Mouse A4Tech N-70FX
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores BaseMark GPU : 250 Point in HD 4600
Total system power consumption is different because those are different laoptops with many different parts. I can't believe I have to explain that.
And yes, TDP mostly equals power consumption.
I didn't say anything about this specific apple GPU, I just said AMD has no efficiency advantage.
The video show that 2060 laptop consuming more power than the 5600M one. The CPU is same, so how 2060 is more efficient than the 5600M, when the 2060 laptop consuming more power??
 

M2B

Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
284 (0.11/day)
Location
Iran
Processor Intel Core i5-8600K @4.9GHz
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon
Cooling Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240L RGB
Memory XPG 8GBx2 - 3200MHz CL16
Video Card(s) Asus Strix GTX 1080 OC Edition 8G 11Gbps
Storage 2x Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Display(s) BenQ PD3200U
Case Thermaltake View 71 Tempered Glass RGB Edition
Power Supply EVGA 650 P2
The video show that 2060 laptop consuming more power than the 5600M one. The CPU is same, so how 2060 is more efficient than the 5600M, when the 2060 laptop consuming more power??

Because the tested RTX 2060 has a 90W POWER LIMIT and the 5600M consumes up to 100W while the 2060 performs better. That's how.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
853 (0.37/day)
Location
Asia
Processor Intel Core i5 4590
Motherboard Gigabyte Z97x Gaming 3
Cooling Intel Stock Cooler
Memory 8GiB(2x4GiB) DDR3-1600 [800MHz]
Video Card(s) XFX RX 560D 4GiB
Storage Transcend SSD370S 128GB; Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB HDD
Display(s) Samsung S20D300 20" 768p TN
Case Cooler Master MasterBox E501L
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Corsair VS450
Mouse A4Tech N-70FX
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores BaseMark GPU : 250 Point in HD 4600
Because the tested RTX 2060 has a 90W POWER LIMIT and the 5600M up to 100W while the 2060 performs better. That's how.
How did he mesured that? Currently you cant do that on Smartshif Laptop as it show power consumption for both cpu and gpu??
And if 2060 is consuming less power than why the ASUS one has more power consumption??
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
693 (0.29/day)
Location
France
Processor RYZEN 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Aorus B-550I Pro AX
Cooling HEATKILLER IV PRO , EKWB Vector FTW3 3080/3090 , Barrow res + Xylem DDC 4.2, SE 240 + Dabel 20b 240
Memory Viper Steel 4000 PVS416G400C6K
Video Card(s) EVGA 3080Ti FTW3
Storage XPG SX8200 Pro 512 GB NVMe + Samsung 980 1TB
Display(s) Dell S2721DGF
Case NR 200
Power Supply CORSAIR SF750
Mouse Logitech G PRO
Keyboard Meletrix Zoom 75 GT Silver
Software Windows 11 22H2
The only thing I need to understand is that I have been taught after many years of leaving comments on the internet is not to engage with people like you.

Yeah right why would you want to engage with peoples like me who provide argumented criticism in order to correct your misconceptions ....... when it's much easier to stay in your denial bubble !

You forgot about HBM2, which is more power efficient than GDDR6.

Yep .
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
2,792 (0.99/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
Total system power consumption is different because those are different laptops with many different parts. I can't believe I have to explain that.
And yes, TDP mostly equals power consumption.
I didn't say anything about this specific apple GPU, I just said AMD has no efficiency advantage.


You are straight up wrong.

As gamersnexus described it, it's a made up number used to beat down forum users over which processor has the lower TDP when in reality it isn't isn't supposed to represent power consumption, let alone being accurate at what it is supposed to indicate (thermal power dissipation).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,194 (3.86/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
<TDP talk>

As gamersnexus described it, it's a made up number used to beat down forum users over which processor has the lower TDP when in reality it isn't isn't supposed to represent power consumption, let alone being accurate at what it is supposed to indicate (thermal power dissipation).

Yep. AMD's current 65W models (so 3600, or 3700X) pull 85-90W at stock with PBO boosting enabled. Intel's current 10500 pulls about 130W when boosting.

Laptop 15W TDP ranges from 10W to about 45W depending on vendor and configuration.

GPU TDP is actually more closely constrained by AMD and Nvidia, simply because their entire product is a single board and as such they have far more control over the power delivery than AMD or Intel do with CPUs that rely on third-party motherboard manufacturers to handle.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
142 (0.05/day)
System Name Avell old monster - Workstation T1 - HTPC
Processor i7-3630QM\i7-5960x\Ryzen 3 2200G
Cooling Stock.
Memory 2x4Gb @ 1600Mhz
Video Card(s) HD 7970M \ EVGA GTX 980\ Vega 8
Storage SSD Sandisk Ultra li - 480 GB + 1 TB 5400 RPM WD - 960gb SDD + 2TB HDD
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
1,632 (1.12/day)
AMD has no efficiency advantage in the mobile space.
I've seen reviews of a 100W~ 5600M losing to a 90W RTX 2060 by 10% or so.


Objectively, I agree that the TDP comparison is moot. Generally the chip will not stick to the stated TDP, whether its GPU or CPU. At this point, CPU is the biggest offender.

In addition, it is very difficult to have an apple to apple comparison of performance between laptops. This is because the specs, cooling solution and the BIOS configurations differs widely. Even if we can get one with more or less exact specs, the cooling solution and laptop configurations will largely determine the performance of the laptop. Unlike on a desktop where you can afford huge cooling solution, the cooling solutions in laptops are really bare minimal. So if one is to cut cost and scrimp on the cooling solution, this may result in a hotter and/or slower performance. In terms of the laptop configuration, it depends on how aggressive the laptop maker wants to be by allowing a longer boost, higher power, higher temps, etc. All these are preset in the BIOS which we have no/ limited access to in laptops.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,475 (1.33/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce RTX 3080 XC3
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
VR HMD HTC Vive
GPU TDP is the power limit for it and has been for a long while now.
CPU situation is different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M2B
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.08/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
AMD has no efficiency advantage in the mobile space.
I've seen reviews of a 100W~ 5600M losing to a 90W RTX 2060 by 10% or so.

That isn't the same GPU ...

The GPU in question here is the Navi 12-based Radeon Pro 5600M (with HBM2).

The GPU in your video is the Navi 10-based Radeon RX 5600M (with GDDR6).

Yes, this naming is confusing in its similarity, but they are differen product lines (RX is mainstream consumer/gaming, Pro is productivity/workstation), so the similar naming just indicates similar performance/product stack positioning.
If this was used by anyone other than Apple I would expect a higher clocked version named RX 5700M or some such.
Are we really expecting the full 2560 (40CU) configuration in something that's wearing the 5600 moniker?
Yes. Considering that AMD just sent out a press release saying this in clear text, yes, that is exactly what is happening.


I have to say, I would love for them to make this into a premium SFF desktop GPU ... push it to 75W, stick it on a 2-slot HHHL card, wow, it would knock the socks off anything else available in that form factor. The price would obviously be high, but there are quite a few SFF enthusiasts out there willing to pay that premium.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,194 (3.86/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Yes. Considering that AMD just sent out a press release saying this in clear text, yes, that is exactly what is happening.

I have to say, I would love for them to make this into a premium SFF desktop GPU ... push it to 75W, stick it on a 2-slot HHHL card, wow, it would knock the socks off anything else available in that form factor. The price would obviously be high, but there are quite a few SFF enthusiasts out there willing to pay that premium.
Oh okay, I hadn't seen the press release when I asked that.

Agree with you on the premium SFF GPU. I intentionally paid extra for a 5700XT and other than a brief excercise in seeing what it was capable of, have never run it at speeds that would even beat a stock 5700. My daily-driver undervolt barely spins the fans beyond their minimum rpm and in benchmarks I'm giving up about 15% of the stock performance.

Yes, it's not great performance/$, but I'm happy to pay the premium for performance/Watt because although I don't care about electricity costs, I do care about it being damn-near silent.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.08/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Oh okay, I hadn't seen the press release when I asked that.

Agree with you on the premium SFF GPU. I intentionally paid extra for a 5700XT and other than a brief excercise in seeing what it was capable of, have never run it at speeds that would even beat a stock 5700. My daily-driver undervolt barely spins the fans beyond their minimum rpm and in benchmarks I'm giving up about 15% of the stock performance.

Yes, it's not great performance/$, but I'm happy to pay the premium for performance/Watt because although I don't care about electricity costs, I do care about it being damn-near silent.
If one has the money for that, that's a good approach, particularly with AMD cards that for the past near decade have been pushed too far up their DVFS curves.

I'm just imagining a ... let's call it RX 5700 Nano - why not? It would sure be a worthy successor to the near-legendary R9 Nano - at 75W, two slot HHHL form factor, probably ~1300MHz or possibly a bit more (given that this does 1035 at 50W). That would absolutely destroy the current highest performance HHHL GPU, the GTX 1650. They could even make it a harvested die with a couple of CUs cut off, letting Apple run off with the best chips. It could still deliver ~1660 Ti performance unless the frequency scaling falls off a cliff at low clocks (considering how low the MBP version is clocked, there should be plenty of headroom without getting notably inefficient). It might not be the highest volume product ever - not by any means given the premium pricing something like this would demand - but it would be the darling of the SFF crowd for years to come.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,194 (3.86/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
It should be easy enough to test. Get a vanilla 5700, set the power limit to -50% (so it's 90W max), tune the voltage curve with a bit of quick graph-plotting and then pick your 75W point on the curve. I reckon the HBM2 makes this considerably more efficient so 75W with GDDR6 may actually be only around 1GHz.
 
Top