• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT Limited To PCIe 4.0 x4 Interface

Uskompuf

Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,519 (1.67/day)
The recently announced AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT only features a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface according to specifications and images of the card published on the ASRock site. This is equivalent to a PCIe 3.0 x8 link or a PCIe 2.0 x16 connection and is a step down from the Radeon 6600 XT which features a PCIe 4.0 x8 interface and the Radeon 6700 XT with a PCIe 4.0 x16 interface. This fact is only specified by ASRock with AMD, Gigabyte, ASUS, and MSI not mentioning the PCIe interface on their respective pages. The RX 6500 XT also lacks some of the video processing capabilities of other RX 6000 series cards including the exclusion of H264/HEVC encoding and AV1 decoding.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,127 (0.65/day)
Location
Serbia
Processor Ryzen 3600
Motherboard X570 I Aorus Pro
Cooling Noctua L12S + Kryonaut
Memory HyperX Fury 2 x 8GB 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) RX 470 Nitro+ 4GB
Storage SX8200 Pro 512 / 860 Evo SATA 250GB
Display(s) 24G2U
Case NR200P
Power Supply Ion SFX 650
Mouse G703
Keyboard Apex m500 (gateron yellow)
Software W10
I get that they're trying to cheap out here and there, but God damn amd, how low are you gonna go.
RX 6300 oem only, pcie 4.0 x1
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
2,319 (1.08/day)
System Name The de-ploughminator
Processor I7 9900K @ 5.1Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 5
Cooling Custom Watercooling
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Neo 3600mhz 15-15-15-30
Video Card(s) RTX 3090 + Bitspower WB
Storage Plextor 512GB nvme SSD
Display(s) LG OLED CX48"
Case Lian Li 011D Dynamic
Audio Device(s) Creative AE-5
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Mouse Razor Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Corsair K75
Software Win10
6500XT is so bad that it's good, for people desperate enough :D
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,127 (0.65/day)
Location
Serbia
Processor Ryzen 3600
Motherboard X570 I Aorus Pro
Cooling Noctua L12S + Kryonaut
Memory HyperX Fury 2 x 8GB 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) RX 470 Nitro+ 4GB
Storage SX8200 Pro 512 / 860 Evo SATA 250GB
Display(s) 24G2U
Case NR200P
Power Supply Ion SFX 650
Mouse G703
Keyboard Apex m500 (gateron yellow)
Software W10
As if it could use the bandwidth even if they wired it up to x16. People just need another thing to complain about.
x16 is definitely not needed, but x4 is just straight up insulting. Put it in 3.0 system and you got yourself a quarter of the PCI bandwidth of an RX470. A card launched 4 and a half years ago.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,299 (0.39/day)
As if it could use the bandwidth even if they wired it up to x16. People just need another thing to complain about.
The point is that people who use it on PCIe 3.0 or perhaps even 2.0 board will also be limited to x4 link but wil much less bandwidth than 4.0 x4 would provide. Obviously 4.0 x4 is just fine for this card but it may not be for 3.0 or 2.0 users.

Based on TPU's GPU database and assuming 6500XT has roughly the performance of GTX 980 it could lose up to 14% with 2.0 and up to 6% with 3.0: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-gtx-980-pci-express-scaling/21.html
 

Fourstaff

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
9,908 (2.11/day)
Location
Home
System Name Orange! // ItchyHands
Processor 3570K // 10400F
Motherboard ASRock z77 Extreme4 // TUF Gaming B460M-Plus
Cooling Stock // Stock
Memory 2x4Gb 1600Mhz CL9 Corsair XMS3 // 2x8Gb 3200 Mhz XPG D41
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 570 // Asus TUF RTX 2070
Storage Samsung 840 250Gb // SX8200 480GB
Display(s) LG 22EA53VQ // Philips 275M QHD
Case NZXT Phantom 410 Black/Orange // Tecware Forge M
Power Supply Corsair CXM500w // CM MWE 600w
Going to wait for W1zzard's numbers before passing judgement. I don't think they purposely gimp it unless it doesn't matter anyway.
 
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
1,389 (0.52/day)
Location
Los Altos, CA
x16 is definitely not needed, but x4 is just straight up insulting. Put it in 3.0 system and you got yourself a quarter of the PCI bandwidth of an RX470. A card launched 4 and a half years ago.

The bandwidth of the RX 470 isn't relevant. A card of that caliber never saturates x16, and was wired for x16 for the current draw. The 6500XT doesn't need the extra slot current nor bandwidth, and thus isn't wired for it.

The point is that people who use it on PCIe 3.0 or perhaps even 2.0 board will also be limited to x4 link but wil much less bandwidth than 4.0 x4 would provide. Obviously 4.0 x4 is just fine for this card but it may not be for 3.0 or 2.0 users.

It won't be a problem on 3.0, and god help anyone still on 2.0. You're going to face UEFI issues on most 2.0 platforms before you ever have the opportunity to face bandwidth problems.

Based on TPU's GPU database and assuming 6500XT has roughly the performance of GTX 980 it could lose up to 14% with 2.0 and up to 6% with 3.0

The 6500 XT also has a larger L3 cache buffer like all other desktop RDNA 2 cards, thus isn't susceptible to bus bandwidth. AMD and nVidia's cards handle bandwidth differently as well, and are thus not comparable.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
107 (0.04/day)
Location
Finland
System Name Gaming rig
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5900X
Motherboard Asus X570-Plus TUF /w "passive" chipset mod
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 2x16GB 3200C16 @3600C16
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3060 TI Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 970 Pro 1TB, Crucial MX500 2TB, Samsung 860 QVO 4TB
Display(s) Samsung C32HG7x
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar Essence STX
Power Supply Corsair RM850i 850W
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Logitech G710+
Software Windows 10 Pro
I'd be more worried about the cut video processing capabilities than the PCIE lane amount. This makes a huge difference for anyone planning to use this for HTPC environment.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
187 (0.07/day)
Location
ID_SUB
System Name Asus X450JB
Processor Intel Core i7-4720HQ
Motherboard Asus
Memory 2x 4GiB
Video Card(s) nVidia GT940M
Storage 2x 1TB
While there might be no discernable difference, I won't say there's no difference between x4, x8 or x16. Even if the GPU itself can't sustain the full rate. There has to be some difference from , say, the buffer being loaded in 1/n time instead of 2/n time, however minuscule.

It would be similar to 1Rx16 and 2Rx8 SDRAM. Most of the time you won't notice the difference but it's there if you look hard enough, and some architecture are more sensitive to it than the other.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,022 (0.47/day)
Location
NH, USA
System Name Lightbringer
Processor Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
Cooling Enermax Liqmax Iii 360mm AIO
Memory G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (8GBx4) 3200Mhz CL 14
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 5700XT Nitro+
Storage Hp EX950 2TB NVMe M.2, HP EX950 1TB NVMe M.2, Samsung 860 EVO 2TB
Display(s) LG 34BK95U-W 34" 5120 x 2160
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic (White)
Power Supply BeQuiet Straight Power 11 850w Gold Rated PSU
Mouse Glorious Model O (Matte White)
Keyboard Royal Kludge RK71
Software Windows 10
The horror... The horror...

Seriously, let's wait until actual benchmarking.... Bandwidth equivalent to 3.0x8 should be plenty for a 1080p card... What would be preferable is if at least one reviewer throws it I to an X370/470 system with PCIe 3.0 and see if it has any effect... If in the end 8t keeps cost down and noticeably expands supply, giving up 5% of the performance is a worthwhile trade off in my opinion
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
43 (0.04/day)
People in the AMD subreddit are complaining because the card also has a small amount of memory (4GB) meaning it will have to make more calls to system memory than a card with more ram; therefore, the limit in pci express bandwidth will be felt more. They did provide an example of another AMD card (can't remember which) that suffers badly when the pci express bandwidth is limited
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
2,319 (1.08/day)
System Name The de-ploughminator
Processor I7 9900K @ 5.1Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 5
Cooling Custom Watercooling
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Neo 3600mhz 15-15-15-30
Video Card(s) RTX 3090 + Bitspower WB
Storage Plextor 512GB nvme SSD
Display(s) LG OLED CX48"
Case Lian Li 011D Dynamic
Audio Device(s) Creative AE-5
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Mouse Razor Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Corsair K75
Software Win10
People in the AMD subreddit are complaining because the card also has a small amount of memory (4GB) meaning it will have to make more calls to system memory than a card with more ram; therefore, the limit in pci express bandwidth will be felt more. They did provide an example of another AMD card (can't remember which) that suffers badly when the pci express bandwidth is limited

That would be the 5500XT 4GB with 8x PCIe bandwidth
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
6,373 (1.02/day)
Location
Whatever my internet protocol shows I guess O.o
System Name Lynni The Dragon
Processor Intel Core i7-11700K "Rocket Lake"
Motherboard Gigabyte Z590 Vision G Bios F7 (Originally shipped with Bios F2)
Cooling Fractal Design Celsius S24
Memory Geil Dragon 4x8GB@3000mhz 15-17-17-35 (GWW416GB3000C15DC)
Video Card(s) PowerColor RX 6800 XT Red Devil 2400/2000MHz@1.050V | Sapphire Radeon RX 590 Nitro+ Special Edition
Storage OS/Games:Samsung 970 EVO 1TB|Sabrent Rocket 2TB|Data: 850EVO 1TB, 1xExos 16TB 1, 1xWD 10TB & WD 1TB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 27GP850-B 1440p@165Hz | LG 55UK6100PLB IPS 4K HDR | LG 48CX OLED 4K HDR
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 Tempered Glass White/Black
Audio Device(s) Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200 watt 80Plus Platinum
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeedy Wireless
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma X UK
Software Win11 Pro 21H2 UK (Build 22000.832)
Benchmark Scores Not benchmarking anymore only Gaming. GPU-Z: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details/3dq6f
This here could make partners do graphics cards that has a physical PCI-E x4 and x8 slot on the cards I remember some partners made a lower end Nvidia GeForce GPU with physical PCI-E x1 port on their card.

I think one was Zotac back in the day for their GT 520 or 710.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
2,526 (0.60/day)
The horror... The horror...

Seriously, let's wait until actual benchmarking.... Bandwidth equivalent to 3.0x8 should be plenty for a 1080p card... What would be preferable is if at least one reviewer throws it I to an X370/470 system with PCIe 3.0 and see if it has any effect... If in the end 8t keeps cost down and noticeably expands supply, giving up 5% of the performance is a worthwhile trade off in my opinion
Just wait for @W1zzard or Hardware Unboxed to run his usual PCI-e scaling test when the card is released. Also if the PCI-e is really limited to x4 link then I hope some AIB will make a card with physical x4 slot for SFF PCs.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
43 (0.04/day)
That would be the 5500XT 4GB with 8x PCIe bandwidth

Correct, thanks! So I guess PCI-E bandwidth may matter for this card more than others. Any way you look at it, it's not worth the asking price. It also has the same maximum theoretical tflops (5.8) as the RX480, which was also a $200 card on release about 5 years ago, so things have come nowhere in 5 years? I'm an AMD fan (mainly CPU) but it's hard to see how AMD isn't ripping people off here. All I can think of is that the margins on previous GPUs was so low that it was barely worth it for them.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
916 (1.97/day)
Correct, thanks! So I guess PCI-E bandwidth may matter for this card more than others. Any way you look at it, it's not worth the asking price. It also has the same maximum theoretical tflops (5.8) as the RX480, which was also a $200 card on release about 5 years ago, so things have come nowhere in 5 years? I'm an AMD fan (mainly CPU) but it's hard to see how AMD isn't ripping people off here. All I can think of is that the margins on previous GPUs was so low that it was barely worth it for them.

It's bad but could be a lot worse is my take. Prices on memory or raw materials even are currently expensive but they are also clearly taking advantage of the situation, like they did with the 5700g/5600g/5300g(oem only) where they are still at around the same prices (the 5300g is even an OEM exclusive).

Hey at least it's not a 3090 tie :D
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
6,373 (1.02/day)
Location
Whatever my internet protocol shows I guess O.o
System Name Lynni The Dragon
Processor Intel Core i7-11700K "Rocket Lake"
Motherboard Gigabyte Z590 Vision G Bios F7 (Originally shipped with Bios F2)
Cooling Fractal Design Celsius S24
Memory Geil Dragon 4x8GB@3000mhz 15-17-17-35 (GWW416GB3000C15DC)
Video Card(s) PowerColor RX 6800 XT Red Devil 2400/2000MHz@1.050V | Sapphire Radeon RX 590 Nitro+ Special Edition
Storage OS/Games:Samsung 970 EVO 1TB|Sabrent Rocket 2TB|Data: 850EVO 1TB, 1xExos 16TB 1, 1xWD 10TB & WD 1TB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 27GP850-B 1440p@165Hz | LG 55UK6100PLB IPS 4K HDR | LG 48CX OLED 4K HDR
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 Tempered Glass White/Black
Audio Device(s) Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200 watt 80Plus Platinum
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeedy Wireless
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma X UK
Software Win11 Pro 21H2 UK (Build 22000.832)
Benchmark Scores Not benchmarking anymore only Gaming. GPU-Z: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details/3dq6f
It's bad but could be a lot worse is my take. Prices on memory or raw materials even are currently expensive but they are also clearly taking advantage of the situation, like they did with the 5700g/5600g/5300g(oem only) where they are still at around the same prices (the 5300g is even an OEM exclusive).

Hey at least it's not a 3090 tie :D

It will be the most expensive "tie" you properly ever purchased that you cannot wear and needs other parts to function :roll:
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
783 (1.22/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name Project Unova ver. 1.0
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor (B0)
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-E
Cooling id-cooling Frostflow X 360 + Gelid GC-Extreme
Memory 64 GB (4x 16) Dominator Platinum B-die @ DDR4-3600 16-17-16-34-1 1.375V
Video Card(s) ASUS TUF Gaming OC GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB
Storage WD Green SN350 480 GB (x 2)
Display(s) Sony XBR-55X905F
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Air
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio (classic)
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 1300W 80+ Gold
Mouse Logitech G300s
Keyboard Logitech G213 Prodigy
Software Fedora 36 / Windows 11 Pro for Workstations 22H2
x16 is definitely not needed, but x4 is just straight up insulting. Put it in 3.0 system and you got yourself a quarter of the PCI bandwidth of an RX470. A card launched 4 and a half years ago.

Sure, but this is a 64-bit bus GPU that even with the fastest memory around will barely crack the 128 GB/s mark. That's about as much bandwidth as the HD 5870 had 13 years ago. Assuming 18 Gbps memory that would amount to 144 GB/s, still slower in raw bandwidth compared to what the GTX 480 had 12 years ago (~177 GB/s).

It most likely could do okay enough on a 4.0 x1 link.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
1,167 (0.31/day)
Location
Netherlands
System Name TheDeeGee's PC
Processor Intel Core i7 11700
Motherboard ASRock Z590 Steel Legend
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory Crucial Ballistix 3200/C16 32GB
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1070 AERO OC
Storage Crucial P5 1TB, Crucial BX500 1TB, Crucial BX500 2TB
Display(s) EIZO CX240
Case Fractal Design Define 7
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic Fanless TX-700
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Logitech G710+
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Benchmark Scores None, don't care. As long as my games runs smooth.
All connections look the same in the picture, how does one even see what is 4x, 8x and 16x?
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
916 (1.97/day)
All connections look the same in the picture, how does one even see what is 4x, 8x and 16x?

Look closer and notice the lack of pcb traces along the entire connector on the 6500xt and their presence until middle on the 6600xt and entire card on the 6700xt

(asrock also confirms this on the spec sheet, could be just an asrock thing but unlikely)
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
512 (0.08/day)
People in the AMD subreddit are complaining because the card also has a small amount of memory (4GB) meaning it will have to make more calls to system memory than a card with more ram; therefore, the limit in pci express bandwidth will be felt more. They did provide an example of another AMD card (can't remember which) that suffers badly when the pci express bandwidth is limited

PCI-E traffic is almost only GPU commands from the processors, Assets exchange with the processors and Assets loading/swapping.

For any cards, PCI-E is just too slow on the latency side to be useful for rendering assets if the local memory is overwhelm. You have first to get via the latency of the bus, then latency of the destination (Memory latency if you access the main memory or SSD latency if you go thru storage). That might not be a big issue at very low fps, but it prevent by it's nature average to high FPS. We are hearing since AGP 1x that you can use the bus to access the main memory to expend the amount of ram the GPU have access but it was never been used this way. Well not for live rendering at least.

But it's being used to load or swap asset more easily.

Infinity Cache will not cache anything that it's not on the GPU memory since it's a L3 cache. So it will not be any help for the traffic that is going via the PCI-E bus.

In reality, this game will run at lower resolutions (Lower amount of memory needed for frame buffer), will probably not run game at max details unless very old, and the frame rate will be average.

I think 4 GB for that kind of card is enough and i think since it will be lower fps with lower details, the bus will probably get lower number of GPU commands. Previous test of Bus speed seems to demonstrate that the bus speed only matter at really high FPS. And we all know that if you go beyond the local GPU memory, you will stutter to the Bus latency.

This chip was designed to be a laptop chip running at low power on low-mid range gaming laptop paired with a IGP. The IGP would have all the video decoding function. In those situation while even more limited, the smaller bus would also mean less power usage.

But since every GPU produce is sold and the Geforce GTX 710 is still sold at 100+ US, AMD saw an opportunities to sell more GPU. The 4 GB buffer will keep it away from the miners as it's no longer enough to mine. So for low end gamer, it might not be such a bad deal in the end. But avoid that for a media box if possible. Better just get a good IGP instead for this purpose.

Will wait for benchmark and real price to see if it's a success or not. But i suspect it's going to be a great success .... for AMD finances.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
54,845 (8.35/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800X (PBO tweaked, 4.4-5.05GHz)
Motherboard Asus x570 Gaming-F
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - EK Quantum Velocity AM4 + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3800 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V, SoC 1.15V Hynix MJR)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to either 1500Mhz 0.737v | 1700Mhz 0.75v | 1900Mhz 0.9v
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + WD AN1500 1TB + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Kogan 32" 4K 72Hz + Gigabyte G32QC (1440p 165Hz) + Phillips 328m6fjrmb (1440p 144Hz)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE (custom white and steel keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS)
Benchmark Scores I don't quite know how i managed to get such a top tier PC, I am not rich.
If its OEM only, and only for systems with PCI-E 4.0 out of the box that more than enough bandwidth
 
Top