AMD Ryzen 7 X570 Platform - Issues

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Inquiring minds need to know. This is a whole new experience for me. The last AMD build I ever did (not for myself) required an old Athlon. That was like maybe 7 years ago; but what with the latest developments in AMD's CPU architecture and Intel resting on their laurels I'd be crazy not to run with the obvious leader in the end user niche. BUT... I'm having issues. I feel like a complete noob and maybe I am. I just spent the last two days trying to get my Crossfire Hero VIII to acknowledge the fact that it even used SATA at all. I spent another day trying to get it to allow me to install an o/s. The BIOS reads like gibberish to me and AMD is beginning to renew my appreciation for Intel platforms very quickly. Alas, when one forks out about $2,000 on a build one does not easy give up. It's probably too early in the game (no pun intended) to RMA a motherboard and I wonder if the system board is really my problem or perhaps I've been an Intel fan boy for so long I'm clueless as to how to navigate an AMD BIOS. Any help would be appreciated.

Issue #1 - My BIOS on my Ryzen 7 3800x only wants to see my NVMe. I managed to get it to see my CD/DVD ROM drive but it is touch and go. Any other standard SATA drives such as standard SSDs and mechanical drives it seems to shun. Attempts to install on these prompts messages from Windows saying that a device is missing or a controller is missing or requires an update. I threw up my hands in surrender after it lost sight of my SSD again and attempted to install an operating system on NVMe.

 

[HD64G]

Anyone willing to help you will need specific problems you face in order to give specific answers. The generic phrase of yours (I'm having issues") doesn't help much. Write 3 of the most important problems you face and it will start from there.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Anyone willing to help you will need specific problems you face in order to give specific answers. The generic phrase of yours (I'm having issues") doesn't help much. Write 3 of the most important problems you face and it will start from there.

Thank you for expressing an interest HD64G. I think part of my issue is that I am not a Windows 10 user nor do I plan to be. The first o/s I tried to Install was Linux Mint 19.2. It attempted installation but screen went black and that was it. This was my first choice of o/s. I tried many others. I managed to get the BIOS to see a brand new SSD but only for a time. After 4 hours of coaxing I managed to get the BIOS to "re-see" the ASUS CD/DVD ROM drive so that I could attempt to install Windows 8.1. It installed on the SSD and then the BIOS decided that SSD no longer existed. After some fiddling around in the BIOS again I persuaded it to "see" the ROM drive once more and attempted a Windows repair. This resulted in bouncing back to the BIOS again repeatedly. Moving the SATA cables made the SSD visible again but Windows repair bounced me back to the BIOS once more where it vanished. I attempted re installation of Windows and it offered up the NVME instead as it was the only drive to be seen. Previous to this I was getting messages about the controller not allowing me to install on NVME. I suspect it permitted me this time to install as I de-selected NVME RAID (which is a little sad as I was hoping to use RAID in the future but don't have two 1TB sticks of NVME right now to use on this build). So I finally did manage to make a tentative installation of Windows on NVME. Here is a picture.

The BIOS seems to be unstable as it does not always see the hard drives I attach to it but moving the SATA cables in the connectors permits them to be seen for short periods of time. That is my first issue. Perhaps we would do well to take this one issue at a time?

 

[theonek]

well, as you show in the picture taken, it simply asks to install the latest release of win10 which is 1909. Trying to run older os like win7 or even 8 there will be no luck for you as the platform is very new and made to support only win10. As for sata issue, only thing you can try before rma the mobo is to flash it's bios to it's latest version and then see if the issue will continue.

 

[Aquinus]

moving the SATA cables in the connectors permits them to be seen for short periods of time

Replace the SATA cables. If moving them around causes devices to show up and disappear, then you likely have bad cables or loose connections (or both.)

So I finally did manage to make a tentative installation of Windows on NVME. Here is a picture.

So, you use an older OS and it tells you that it's not a great plan. It's right. If you're not willing to use the latest version of Windows but are willing to use brand new hardware, you shouldn't be surprised.

The first o/s I tried to Install was Linux Mint 19.2. It attempted installation but screen went black and that was it. This was my first choice of o/s.

If you're not opposed to using Linux, I would just try a different distro that's not a rolling release because nVidia's closed source drivers won't always jive with the latest kernel. Using something like Mint probably makes more sense if you had an AMD card since graphics updates ship with the kernel when it comes to the open source drivers. I would give Ubuntu a shot to be honest. It works fine for me.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

***** UPDATE****

I decided because I could not coax the BIOS into seeing my other drives that I would install my old LSI RAID card and see if it would see two of my old Velociraptors on the rogue o/s. It found them immediately Now if only I could get the BIOS to see the hardware.

 

[Aquinus]

***** UPDATE****

I decided because I could not coax the BIOS into seeing my other drives that I would install my old LSI RAID card and see if it would see two of my old Velociraptors on the rogue o/s. It found them immediately Now if only I could get the BIOS to see the hardware.

Yeah, because you're using the SAS to SATA breakout cable instead of the SATA cables you're having issues with. Replace the SATA cables and you'll be fine if they show up with the LSI card fine.

Edit: I sort of mentioned this already.

Replace the SATA cables. If moving them around causes devices to show up and disappear, then you likely have bad cables or loose connections (or both.)

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Replace the SATA cables. If moving them around causes devices to show up and disappear, then you likely have bad cables or loose connections (or both.)

So, you use an older OS and it tells you that it's not a great plan. It's right. If you're not willing to use the latest version of Windows but are willing to use brand new hardware, you shouldn't be surprised.

If you're not opposed to using Linux, I would just try a different distro that's not a rolling release because nVidia's closed source drivers won't always jive with the latest kernel. Using something like Mint probably makes more sense if you had an AMD card since graphics updates ship with the kernel when it comes to the open source drivers. I would give Ubuntu a shot to be honest. It works fine for me.

They're brand new cables. I switched them out with other brand new cables and to no avail. The problem continues. I tested the drives on my work station and my work station spots them immediately.

I used an older OS because that is the only OS I could get installed on the PC. Intially, it would not even recognize Win 10 (which I only have in case others want it). The fact that Linux was a flop speaks volumes to me. My GFX is an AMD SAPPHIRE NITRO +. I thought you saw in the picture on the previous thread. I'll take more pictures of the hardware to put on this thread

Here ya go

Is there some place in the AMD BIOS that allows me to activate/deactivate SATA ports?

Forget I asked that. I just checked and all ports read active and hot plug enabled.

It also says there are no drives present on the ones that I've plugged into them.

NOPE. Followed your advice, Aquinus. Got yet another brand new SATA cable (I have a ton of them on supply) this one came compliments of the board manufacturer, plugged it into one of the drives you suggested I should try it on, powered up the board and checked for it in the BIOS. According to the BIOS that drive is not present. The OS doesn't see it either. I put the drive back in the cage and the OS sees it. I'm figuring the reason this happens is because the LSI card uses it's own BIOS. The PCIE on the system board works so the drives will show up there. It's looking to me like I have a defective system board.

*UPDATE* So I called ASUS and walked through the whole ordeal with them. The system board refuses to see any drives connected to the SATA ports other than the DVD/CD ROM drive (and that was a job in itself to make the BIOS see it and keep it.) It's looking like ASUS is going to ask me to RMA the board. So sad, really Everything else seems to work just fine.

well, as you show in the picture taken, it simply asks to install the latest release of win10 which is 1909. Trying to run older os like win7 or even 8 there will be no luck for you as the platform is very new and made to support only win10. As for sata issue, only thing you can try before rma the mobo is to flash it's bios to it's latest version and then see if the issue will continue.

Yup. Tried that already. When I tried to install Windows 10 it kept saying "device missing". No doubt that was the missing SATA. It wasn't even interested in installing on the NVME.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I agree using latest version windows 10 usb stick is highly recommended. From personal experience Windows 10 ver 17.xx was a nightmare with a lot of issues (and upgrading from that didn't help) but when I used clean ver 18.xx on Zen+ it went smoothly. I would highly recommended using 1909 for Zen2 and make sure to use the latest chipset driver.

Also use a BIOS version with AGESA 1.0.0.4 Patch B for Zen2.

...
Issue #1 - My BIOS on my Ryzen 7 3800x only wants to see my NVMe. I managed to get it to see my CD/DVD ROM drive but it is touch and go. Any other standard SATA drives such as standard SSDs and mechanical drives it seems to shun. Attempts to install on these prompts messages from Windows saying that a device is missing or a controller is missing or requires an update. I threw up my hands in surrender after it lost sight of my SSD again and attempted to install an operating system on NVMe.

Some boards share the SATA and NVMe ports from the chipset. Make sure your NVMe is plugged into the bus that is dedicated for the PCIe lanes from your CPU.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

I agree using latest version windows 10 usb stick is highly recommended. From personal experience Windows 10 ver 17.xx was a nightmare with a lot of issues (and upgrading from that didn't help) but when I used clean ver 18.xx on Zen+ it went smoothly. I would highly recommended using 1909 for Zen2 and make sure to use the latest chipset driver.

Also use a BIOS version with AGESA 1.0.0.4 Patch B for Zen2.


Some boards share the SATA and NVMe ports from the chipset. Make sure your NVMe is plugged into the bus that is dedicated for the PCIe lanes from your CPU.

Thanks again, Computer guy. After being on the phone with ASUS for a couple of hours on a walk thru the technician wanted me to RMA the board. Then I remembered something theonek had stated on this thread and thought even if I did flash to the latest version of the BIOS already and even though the flash was verified as "successful", it might not hurt to flash the BIOS a second time. So re-downloaded and manually renamed the file on the USB stick and gave it another shot. Lo and behold the BIOS suddenly showed all the SATA ports and I'm happy to announce that all 8 of them are in working order now Something so simple. After that it even loaded Windows 7 from a drive image I made for my daughter's PC (although I had no functional mouse or keyboard with that). Finally having visible SATA drives to install on I managed to also get Linux Mint 19.3 installed. So, having installed three OS in various stages of functionality I decided the build earned its badge after all. At least I have one functional and legitimate OS on it now.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Thanks again, Computer guy. After being on the phone with ASUS for a couple of hours on a walk thru the technician wanted me to RMA the board. Then I remembered something theonek had stated on this thread and thought even if I did flash to the latest version of the BIOS already and even though the flash was verified as "successful", it might not hurt to flash the BIOS a second time. So re-downloaded and manually renamed the file on the USB stick and gave it another shot. Lo and behold the BIOS suddenly showed all the SATA ports and I'm happy to announce that all 8 of them are in working order now Something so simple. After that it even loaded Windows 7 from a drive image I made for my daughter's PC (although I had no functional mouse or keyboard with that). Finally having visible SATA drives to install on I managed to also get Linux Mint 19.3 installed. So, having installed three OS in various stages of functionality I decided the build earned its badge after all. At least I have one functional and legitimate OS on it now.

Funny I was just about to reply about trying Linux Mint 19.3.

(Before and after flashing I also reset bios default and reboot - and remove overclocks or XMP before flashing.)

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

well, as you show in the picture taken, it simply asks to install the latest release of win10 which is 1909. Trying to run older os like win7 or even 8 there will be no luck for you as the platform is very new and made to support only win10. As for sata issue, only thing you can try before rma the mobo is to flash it's bios to it's latest version and then see if the issue will continue.

And thank you for this, theonek. It tipped me off enough to give the BIOS a reflash and that's all that was needed.

 

[GLD]

And thank you for this, theonek. It tipped me off enough to give the BIOS a reflash and that's all that was needed.

Really? Just updating the bios, as was previously suggested, fixed your issues! (Sarcasm)

 

[Sybaris_Caesar]

Really? Just updating the bios, as was previously suggested, fixed your issues! (Sarcasm)

He already updated the BIOS. But seems like it got corrupted or sth. So re-updating fixed it.

...even if I did flash to the latest version of the BIOS already and even though the flash was verified as "successful", it might not hurt to flash the BIOS a second time. So re-downloaded and manually renamed the file on the USB stick and gave it another shot.

Sarcasm is not too far from cringe if you're wrong.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Really? Just updating the bios, as was previously suggested, fixed your issues! (Sarcasm)

Read carefully. I re-re-re- Flashed it.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Read carefully. I re-re-re- Flashed it.

Question: Did you ever memtest before flashing?

I have a theory that many people have issues on the Ryzen platform due unstable memory also causing potentially bad bios flashes.

 

[Zach_01]

Don’t remember, is this board dual bios?
If it is then there is a possibility that first time(s) the update would replace 1 of 2 and at some point(s) the board boot to the second UEFI. But this (boot switching BIOS) would imply boot problems from CPU/Ram OC or other instability.
Any weird post codes during boot or variable boot times?

 

[GLD]

Read carefully. I re-re-re- Flashed it.

My bad. I missed the details. Apologizes. Glad you go it sorted.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Question: Did you ever memtest before flashing?

I have a theory that many people have issues on the Ryzen platform due unstable memory also causing potentially bad bios flashes.

That sounds like a sound theory. I'm under the gun and a bit pressured for time so I skipped that RAM test because I wanted to get things working and put it back in the box as we are packing to move to a new home. Probably not the best time to get on with a build. Can't find my test bench, can't find my switches, omgg... took me three hours to find out what box had my volt meter. But, sometimes we have little control over shipping and I was waiting for some stuff to come in before I started the build. Anyway, that aside... What you say makes solid sense and I normally do run RAM tests regardless of the make or manufacturer of the platform normally. Rarely ever have brand new RAM fail on me but there's always that one time. lol Of course I did set BIOS to default as you suggested and there was even a point at which I ran it under clocked. The RAM does seem to behave stable but that's the thing about RAM: A bad stick won't necessarily show itself off the stretch. A good X570 board is supposed to address that SATA/Bottle neck issue with NVMe you mentioned. That's part of the reason for the PCIe Gen 4. Anyway, tried and tested, all 8 SATA ports work but I doubt that I'll be using them all for some time yet. I even did a little gaming on it on the Linux side of life. The SAPPHIRE NITRO+ card is okay, but my NVIDIA GFX definitely wipes the floor with it. I'm guessing the build wants WINDOWS 10 and that is one OS that makes me cringe.

Time to put the toys away and get packing. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Zach_01]

...the build wants WINDOWS 10 and that is one OS that makes me cringe.

Time to put the toys away and get packing. Thanks everyone for your help.

I get alot of this from alot users. I use the 10 for straight 4+ years now and never had any issues. At least any major one... and if you ask me now what I faced... I cant remember! That insignificant was.
The 3 out of those 4+ years was on AM3+ platform, one that was not for win10 in the first place, but ZEN is.

Anyway, have a flowless (and easy as it can be) moving...

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Taking a coffee break. I figure I've got about 98 boxes left to pack. I'm making progress! Can't believe I have so much computer junk. It sure collects over the years. Found the switch for my test bench but I still can't find the test bench! lol I'm thinking it's the old switch from about a decade ago. Can't even remember if it still works. No need for it anymore but I guess I'll hang onto it. I think I cannibalized an old PC for a working switch at some point in my adventures. Old age must be setting in. Can't remember everything so good anymore. The wife is giving me strange looks. Some of you know how this goes. New place has a huge basement for me to set up shop. I'm looking forward to it. *Plus cooler ambient temps* Bonus!

So Zach, I'm not ignoring you – I'm just a little distracted. This is my first Ryzen build. I'm familiar with Athlon builds and everything after that is pretty much Intel coz in these parts (where I live) everyone wants Intel. It's a rich little oil town and I love it. Folks here work hard and play hard. Real estate is expensive tho and I'm not looking forward to moving in 30 below weather either. Everything has a price.

Windows 10. First I want to qualify what I state here before I get started: I was a Windows Insider. I beta tested Windows 10. I know what it is and what it does. There is a reason I went back to Windows 8.1. People who are happy with it can keep it. I'm not demanding they get rid of it. It's a personal choice and a personal decision. I don't want to see anymore of my posts removed (for whatever reason) and I know I'm old school and that really can't be helped given my age. And yeah, I really liked Win 7 back in the day. Surely I'm entitled to my opinions although I'm not certain I'm free to express them in this forum. You get that a lot from users because users eventually wake up to the fact that they're being used by Windows when they are being used by Windows.

Windows loves it when they can get their customers to do all their beta testing for them for free and, to boot, get them to pay Windows to do the testing for them. Many people already know how Microsoft up and fired their testers because they figured they didn't need them anymore. I can go on but I spare you. I didn't much care for the Windows "key logger" edition but the argument that it can be blocked or "turned off" is moot. This is where I got off the bus with Windows. Remember now, this was a personal decision. I'm not demanding anything from anyone here. Personally, I don't want to pay for, or support any company that thinks it's just fine to put that kind of software in their OS. I marvel at how my friend had to consistently disable the Windoze spyware after every critical update until he threw up his hands and got a third party program to "trust" to do the job for him. This shouldn't be necessary at all. In my opinion, this is where Microsoft really steps over the line. BUT... IF one is so disposed to carefully read the EULA Microsoft reserves the right to do anything they want to your PC in the way of software (even to software that isn't their own) if you're running their software on your PC. Should you disagree (and there is a little check mark for this that comes with the installation) you don't have to use it. Have fun getting your refund. I still have another friend waiting for his. If you don't agree and you merely put that check mark in the box by the sentence that states you read that EULA and agree then you still agree and you have given full consent to Microsoft to be the BOSS of your PC. I have Microsoft to thank for generating my growing interest in Linux for this among other reasons.

IMO If enough people took the position I have taken Microsoft might just wake up and show a little more respect for the end user, but, that isn't gonna happen, is it? So it's simply a matter of principle. I like to literally own my own PC. My position with Intel is similar: I love Intel products. They still make the fastest and, in my opinion, the most stable CPUs. But. Evidently they don't respect my privacy, they're over stepping boundaries, they won't fix their architecture to address Spectre/Meltdown at the hardware level and that is one very serious vulnerability they can't afford to overlook. Intel practically pushed me into AMD's camp. They've had what. Three years to fix this? Talk is cheap. I really do hope the issue will be dealt with when Ice Lake is out of the box but I'm not holding my breath and I don't have a whole lot of time here. They've given us false reassurances before. No, they need to roll up their sleeves and get on some serious hardware mitigation and frankly, I don't trust them anymore. In the end the bottom line is profit. There is only one language these companies comprehend. When the shares start to drop and the CEOs start losing money their hearing suddenly improves. That's my view. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Oh right... Zach, I really do wish the board came with two BIOS as you suggested it might. It kinda/sorta does if you include the default but not the way AORUS gives you two so that you can always fall back on the previous. I tried profiling but that only resulted in more errors (another issue I avoided mentioning here). I'm just happy to get my SATA for now and do a little online gaming on the thing via good ole Linux. I'm really hoping to see Linux tear things up in the near future, especially in the world of gaming. I'm transitioning my daughters (and hopefully the wife) to leave Windows and move on to Linux. So far the 12 year old has really taken to it but she jumped into Python and I don't understand a word of that stuff so she's on her own there.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's the board we're talking about and thanks for asking.

ASUS AMD AM4 ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero ATX Motherboard with PCIe 4.0, 2.5Gbps LAN - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS AMD AM4 ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero ATX Motherboard with PCIe 4.0, 2.5Gbps LAN, Dual M.2, SATA 6Gb/s, USB 3.2 Gen 2 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.ca

 

[Zach_01]

Long... post but unfortunately very true (and kind of sad) all you say. And kinda like a wake up call. And its not that Im not aware of this or other such. Its just that Im past that point of resisting to (some) things that violate privacy. Its too hard and over my head and huge time consuming and knowledge requisite to even try to cast away the sh#t its going on. All you say is one reason why I dont have FB profile. But this is easy. I dont make one. I must say I admire to a high point people trying finding ways to bypass these things.
There is no "love" between a company and a potential "customer" (M$ handing win10 for free or LisaSu making CPUs and GPUs). Ever...
Every single product designed to "help" or "improve" people's lifes or work is pure profit and nothing else for them. We advertise progress in our civilization but its hardly any progress the facts of today's status. Tech progress is not consider as one, at least by me. What about relations and what it means? From countries level down to people level... hardly any progress...

Hey, I dont feel ignored! I know what moving implies. And I really like to know how that rig will turn out. I'm very interested in ZEN2 function and behavior. All things in their own time tho

But (changing the subject...) I know about oil (if we are talking about the same thing), working as production operator in an Oil Refinery... I sure know about oil...

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Long... post but unfortunately very true (and kind of sad) all you say. And kinda like a wake up call. And its not that Im not aware of this or other such. Its just that Im past that point of resisting to (some) things that violate privacy. Its too hard and over my head and huge time consuming and knowledge requisite to even try to cast away the sh#t its going on. All you say is one reason why I dont have FB profile. But this is easy. I dont make one. I must say I admire to a high point people trying finding ways to bypass these things.
There is no "love" between a company and a potential "customer" (M$ handing win10 for free or LisaSu making CPUs and GPUs). Ever...
Every single product designed to "help" or "improve" people's lifes or work is pure profit and nothing else for them. We advertise progress in our civilization but its hardly any progress the facts of today's status. Tech progress is not consider as one, at least by me. What about relations and what it means? From countries level down to people level... hardly any progress...

Hey, I dont feel ignored! I know what moving implies. And I really like to know how that rig will turn out. I'm very interested in ZEN2 function and behavior. All things in their own time tho

But (changing the subject...) I know about oil (if we are talking about the same thing), working as production operator in an Oil Refinery... I sure know about oil...

Taking another coffee break. I figure I have around 87 boxes left to pack. Sure am looking forward to setting up shop in that basement. The wife will be happy too. I have PC parts all over the place lol. My son is a petroleum engineer. I'm not exactly sure what he does, but he makes a comfortable living. Myself, I just pulled wire and ran fiber optics to the battery stations, metered pump stations, diagnostics, that sort of thing. I guess you could say I'm semi-retired now. I started with a Commodore 64 but only played games on it, then moved to a Tandy. Win 95 was on its way out back when my son showed me how Windows worked. I skipped over Win 98 and bought the Mistake Edition. That one had a real learning curve. It made Win XP look like a dream. Vista was another nightmare and I was already building for myself by that time. It's kind of funny how when Windows finally got Vista sorted out they came out with Windows 7. This is when any doubts about the industry being a racket dissipated. Windows is a racket. I should have learned Linux by then, but I was in a rut and what we do for convenience is not always a means to justify the end. I loved Win 7 and I'm sorry to see it go. All we have now are these funky tablet type operating systems and I'm not so sure about the so-called "improvements" that come with them. Hardware, on the other hand, has come a long way.

The two X58s are still running strong and are certainly fast enough for what my girls do. I suspect a time will soon come when the second eldest will want something a little faster. She's already been eyeing my work station. I have to say that so far this Ryzen 3800X isn't impressing me much. My Intel 6900K is also 8 cores, much older, and much more responsive. Perhaps in time the extra bandwidth that comes with the GEN 4 platform will pay off for me but from a gaming perspective my work station does a better job of it. Then again, If I were running a game on NVMe in RAID 0 instead of Linux on a regular SSD I might imagine my tune would change. I am in no rush. I have four daughters. Three of them are gamers. I'm just the guy who likes to throw these units together. Oh yes, and mother likes to game too. I also built her rig. She is very pleased with it.

 

[Zach_01]

My son is a petroleum engineer. I'm not exactly sure what he does, but he makes a comfortable living.

I know what this entitles... Tell him I met someone working in a Hydroskimming refinary complex with atmospheric distillation, hydrotreating process, isomerization and naphtha reforming with continuous catalyst regeneration... (if you learn this by-heart and tell him, I bet he'd go like this: ) ...and thats not all of it!

We, as production operators, work closely with petroleum/chemical engineers from process department. The process to produce all kinds off fuels from Crude Oil is a 24/7 one (3x8hour shifts), and stops only for maintainance or malfunction or power loss. And requires different process conditions depending on the kind of the crude oil and the fuel's specs.
The head(manager) of my department is also a petroleum engineer. Our level or knowledge is only the tip of the iceberg compared to an engineer, yet we operate the complex ourselfs at afternoon, nights and weekends.
I'm both a control room and a field operator (15 years at next couple of months) under foreman as a helper.

The structure is like this:
1. Industrial area Manager (Refinery complex, PP/polypropylene, Chemical plant, field tankage, port tankage, refinary process department, fire departmant, safety department, maintainance departmant, environment department and others...)
2. Refinary Complex Manager (older petroleum engineer from process department or older division manager)
3. Refinery Division/Department Manager (old petroleum engineer from process departmant)
4. Department Supervisor (old foreman)
...from this point and down people are working morning/afternoon/night shifts, cycling through all 3.
5. Foreman (old helper operator, control room/field foreman)
6. Foreman's helper (experienced control room/field operator)
7. Operator (control room/field operator)
8. Field operator only

By old or older I mean years on the job not by age... I'm No6.
1 through 4 is a one man job.
5~8 is multi man job. A No8 could go up to 4 but not all apparently.

Man... do I said much about the job...

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Not sure what my boy does these days. He could be overseas. I do know he had to do four years of university to get the position but that was many years ago. He's in his 30's now. Anyhoot I ran a mem test and went to bed. Funny. All my Intel BIOS come with mem test built in. I had to run 3rd. party software with this AMD chip. For me, that's one more mark against AMD but what can I say? If it means staying
away from Spectre/Meltdown I'll roll with it.