• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

AMD VESUVIUS vs NVIDIA TITAN-Z

Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#1
I've been preparing an enourmous (literally) article covering all CPUs currently available in the market in aspect of their gaming performance. From Core i7 to Celeron, 4960X to G1820 & FX to Kabini, I'll check every frame-per-sec on every popular game title on every different CPU. I guess it'll be able to be disclosed within next month. Well, forget about the CPU thing. What I'll be dealing with today is not that one. Today, I am going to compare two monstrous graphics cards from AMD and NVIDIA, that both are not yet released - namely Radeon R9 295X2 (maybe its codename is a bit familiar to us : Vesuvius) and GeForce GTX TITAN-Z.

As chip-to-chip competition goes tougher, each company's single-GPU highend line up is a bit screwed "up" (literally, the whole line up goes upward : 780 -> 780 Ti -> TITAN Black...) and thus existing 2-GPU SKUs from both companies seem like they became less attractive in terms of both efficiency (i.e., perf/watt) and absolute performance itself, because both 7990 and GTX 690 are based on each company's previous generation GPU. (for example, GTX 690 bests GTX 780 Ti only by 10+a%) So launching a brand new 2-GPU SKU based on "the most recent silicon" is quite natural nest step for both AMD and NVIDIA, and, as of today, said "most recent silicon"(s) available are Hawaii for AMD and GK110 for NVIDIA, respectively.

To make the calculator (= VGA calculator) work we need to know some fixed variables first : number of SP/TMU/ROPs and their operating clock speed. Actually R9 295X2 has been teased thant it'll equip two Hawaii running up to 1GHz (it is not clear that "which Hawaii" will be equipped : Hawaii XT (2,816 SP) or Hawaii Pro (2,560 SP)) as well as TITAN-Z comprises of two GK110-435 (which is the same silicon used in TITAN Black) but the speed remains unknown. However there is a hint in NVIDIA's GTC 2014 presentation : the company's founder and CEO, Jen Hsun Huang, commented that its compute power reaches 8 TFLOPS. Since each streaming processor in GK110 has two FMAD pipelines, TITAN-Z will have 11,520 SPs as a whole. To obtain 8 TFLOPS (= 8,192 GFLOPS), each GPU in TITAN-Z should run at the speed no slower than 711MHz (8,192 ÷ 11,520 ÷ 1,000). This number actually is quite a downgraded one in compared with current GK110-based SKUs. (Remind those numbers : 863MHz for GTX 780, 875MHz for 780 Ti, 837MHz for TITAN and 889MHz for TITAN Black) But at the same time, we can guess there will be another clock profile namely "Boost". Averagely GK110-based SKUs have +100MHz boost profile from their own base clock speed. So it seems there's no inappropriateness to guess TITAN-Z will have 711MHz as its base / 811MHz as its boost frequency. Then, let the calculator do its work. Here are the results :

※ All results were obtained from the "VGA calculator" I designed. (see here : http://iyd.kr/634) The calculator is actually a simple multivariable fractional equation whose variables represent SP/TMU/ROP count and GPU/VRAM frequency. Each term describes the 'simulated' GPU's shader/texture mapping/rendering performance via harmonical way (which means each term employs 'c/x' form) thus we can easily see not only specification-wise bluff but also a true fact on each GPU's real performance. For example, Radeon HD 5830 has more SP/TMU and same amount of ROP than 4890 while their clock rates are 800 and 850MHz respectively, so it is quite natural that 5830 seems faster than 4890. But it's not. This is because of 5830's (a bit) slower ROP partition than 4890 which affects gaming performance despite entire dominance on SP/TMU. By this calculator, however, I successfully speculated that 5830 won't overwhelm 4890. Indeed, across more than 3 year, it still works for recent GPUs such as Volcanic Islands/Kepler family so that I speculated that Hawaii will faster than GTX TITAN/780 but not compete with a full-blown GK110, which now released as GTX 780 Ti, prior to Hawaii's release. (See that : http://udteam.tistory.com/535)



▲ First is for Vesuvius. Since I have no information regarding its SP count, I provisionally assumed that it'll use two Hawaii Pro GPUs. (as R9 290 non-X) As you may see, it'll up to 76% faster than the most recent offspring of AMD (R9 290X) and bests current generation 2-GPU SKUs (7990) by 49% if the calculator do it right. Now, let's move on to the NVIDIA counterpart.



▲ The result above is derived from the assumption that TITAN-Z will operates averagely at its base clock, i.e., 711MHz as I guessed before. According to the calculator, it will be about a third (34%) faster than GTX 780 Ti and only 11% faster than GTX 690 thank to its limited clock speed. The result seems a bit disappointing. Don't you agree?

Well, there are two more results for the best scenario for each company. See this :



▲ This time I applied a spec of Hawaii XT instead of Hawaii Pro. Performance gained from additional SP/TMU is about 5%.



▲ Speaking of TITAN-Z, in the best scenario it will operate averagely at its boost clock profile. The result above represents such assumption. As you can see, however, it still seems a bit slower than Vesuvius even in its best & Vesuvius's worst scenario. But still there's a factor that may change the framework of today's speculation : This is efficiency.

It is widely accepted that Hawaii is not only less power efficient but also hotter than GK110, thus consistency of performance is very poor(due to throttling). It is very likely that efficiency and consistency will be the points we should focus on when we see the aftermarket battle of R9 295X2 and TITAN-Z. Stay tuned!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
259 (0.17/day)
Likes
63
Processor Intel i7-4770k
Motherboard ASUS MAXIMUS VI HERO
Cooling Deepcool GAMMAXX S40
Memory Kingston HyperX Beast Black 8gb @ 1600 cl8
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 670 POWER EDITION
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250GB / WD Caviar Black 500GB
Display(s) BenQ XL2420T
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar U3
Power Supply FSP 650w
#2
Of course Nvidia Z will be better, like always, in all ways.
 
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
1,940 (0.62/day)
Likes
409
Location
Singapore
System Name penguin
Processor i3-4160
Motherboard Asus H81 Mini-ITX
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x4GB Kingston 1600MHz
Video Card(s) Saphire Radeon 7850 2GB
Storage Plextor M5S 120GB+1TB Seagate
Display(s) 23' Dell
Case CM Elite 130
Audio Device(s) stock
Power Supply Corsair CX430m
Software W7/Lubuntu
#3
From the looks of it, you assume perfect xfire/sli scaling, which will never happen. The scaling changes each time a new driver/profile is released and varies per game and per in-game settings. It's such a fickle thing that you'd never ever be able to quantify it.
 

RCoon

Gaming Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
11,368 (5.51/day)
Likes
9,492
Location
Gypsyland, UK
System Name HP Omen 17
Processor i7 7700HQ
Memory 16GB 2400Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1060
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB + HGST 1TB
Display(s) 1080p IPS G-SYNC 75Hz
Audio Device(s) Bang & Olufsen
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD+
Software Win 10 Pro
#4
From experience, only bots and spammers say "Hello dear" And you've removed it :)
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#5
From the looks of it, you assume perfect xfire/sli scaling, which will never happen. The scaling changes each time a new driver/profile is released and varies per game and per in-game settings. It's such a fickle thing that you'd never ever be able to quantify it.
Thanks for reply, and you touched my achilles tendon pretty directly ;) Yes. I have never been able to make a quantitative model for those who aren't directly related to 'major' variables such as SP count or clock speed, and of course, among them, CF/SLI scaling resides. My work is just for an abstract guideline for future product, that is, "in best case they can reach that high level" <- like that. Again, thanks for your opinion :)
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#6
From experience, only bots and spammers say "Hello dear" And you've removed it :)
:) Now you sure that I'm not a "BOT". My mother language is Korean, and I actually am not familiar with English. This is only because I learn English by textbook, this kind of manner (of greeting) such as "Hello dear" or "Long time no see" just look familiar to me. Except for that reason, nothing special ;) Thanks for reply. (...actually indicating me as a bot or spammer hurts me. I want to get familiar with this forum & forum users.)
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,319 (0.64/day)
Likes
686
Location
78°55' N, 11°56' E
System Name -aLiEn beaTs-
Processor Intel i7 4770k OC 4.7GHz @ 1.28v | Cache 4.2GHz
Motherboard Asus Z87-Deluxe
Cooling Corsair H90 custom p|p fans
Memory G.skill TridentX 2x8GB DDR3 2400MHz CL10|1T
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 980TI AMP!Omega Factory OC 1420MHz
Storage Intel SSD
Display(s) EIZO FS2333
Case CoolerMaster HAF 932 USB3.0
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Titanium HD @ 2.1 Bose acoustimass 5
Power Supply Chieftec Ntro88+ 650W [52A]
Mouse oldschool Razer Copperhead blu
Keyboard Logitech G19s
Software Windows 10 Pro RS2
Benchmark Scores ► ♪♫♪♩♬♫♪♭
#7
Well Titan-z will have much lower freq. to stay ~ TDP level.

8tflops in total means ~700mhz per core, dual 780ti or Titan has ~10500tflops (stock freq.)..
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#8
Well Titan-z will have much lower freq. to stay ~ TDP level.

8tflops in total means ~700mhz per core, dual 780ti or Titan has ~10500tflops (stock freq.)..
Right. Lower-than-expected performance of TITAN-Z is only because of its low frequency. If we put the full spec of 2 x 780Ti or 2 x TITAN Black then the result (through the calculator) surely implies somewhere higher than the speculative performance of Vesuvius mentioned above.

Thanks for reply :)
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
259 (0.17/day)
Likes
63
Processor Intel i7-4770k
Motherboard ASUS MAXIMUS VI HERO
Cooling Deepcool GAMMAXX S40
Memory Kingston HyperX Beast Black 8gb @ 1600 cl8
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 670 POWER EDITION
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250GB / WD Caviar Black 500GB
Display(s) BenQ XL2420T
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar U3
Power Supply FSP 650w
#9
Vesuvius would be piece of non-gaming hardware like 7990 was.
 

RCoon

Gaming Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
11,368 (5.51/day)
Likes
9,492
Location
Gypsyland, UK
System Name HP Omen 17
Processor i7 7700HQ
Memory 16GB 2400Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1060
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB + HGST 1TB
Display(s) 1080p IPS G-SYNC 75Hz
Audio Device(s) Bang & Olufsen
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD+
Software Win 10 Pro
#10
Vesuvius would be piece of non-gaming hardware like 7990 was.
The 7990 was always for gaming, it was AMD's last ditch at taking the performance crown on "Single card" GPU's. The NVidia Titan is the one that was not for gaming and was always for compute power for people who couldn't afford compute servers, and that is exactly what the new Titan-Z is for - cheap compute.

NVidia said it themselves. It's for the guy who wants a cheap compute server under his desk.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#11
Vesuvius would be piece of non-gaming hardware like 7990 was.
Thanks for reply :)

Well, I regard 7990 also was a pretty good graphics card (since frame pacing driver was launched) when we solely consider about the performance. But I also agree some with you when it comes to a matter - thermal / acoustic problem. Then, yes, 7990 is (relatively) less attractive product than GTX 690. I guess the same will be also likely to Vesuvius and TITAN-Z :)
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
161 (0.11/day)
Likes
13
System Name First Gaming PC
Processor AMD APU Kaveri A10-7850k
Motherboard MSI A88XM-E45
Cooling Stock Cooler
Memory Kingston HyperX 8 GB 1866MHz
Video Card(s) Intergrated with CPU
Storage Kingston Hyperx 3k 120 GB(OS) + 1 TB WD Blue
Display(s) LG 20EN33V 1920 x 1080
Case Infinity Rave
Audio Device(s) Intergrated Sound Card
Power Supply Enermax NAXN 500w
Software Windows 8.1 64-bit
#12
I think you should WAIT patiently for those two card release before make any conclusion and REVIEWED of course

a question for you? Are you going to build a High-end PC or home server or just curious about those card?
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Messages
204 (0.15/day)
Likes
45
Location
Finland
System Name WorstEVER
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-4770K
Motherboard MSI Z87-G45 GAMING
Cooling Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E
Memory G.Skill 8GB (2x4GB) Sniper, DDR3 1600MHz, 9-9-9-24, 1.35V
Video Card(s) 7970 Matrix Platinum
Storage Samsung 840EVO / Samsung F1
Display(s) Crossover Blacktune 2763 AMG "PP"
Case Fractal Design Define R3
Audio Device(s) integrated
Power Supply Corsair HX 750 Gold
Software Win7 x64 ultimate
Benchmark Scores over 9000
#13
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#14
I think you should WAIT patiently for those two card release before make any conclusion and REVIEWED of course

a question for you? Are you going to build a High-end PC or home server or just curious about those card?
Umm.... how can I explain properly... let me see.

I'm a half-professional / half-freelance "reviewer" (I tested computer hardware -mostly graphics card- , wrote articles and send them to several media (in Korea) and they give me money. (How simple ;)!) Of course I'm curious about those products and this is mostly as a personal sector. I myself is not a hardware-enthusiast but I need to maintain 'good' gaming platform to lessen bottleneck from other than graphics card. Currently I use i7 4930K @ 4.5GHz / R4E / Coolermaster 1.2KW PSU.

Is that a proper answer? Anyway, thanks for your reply :)
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
161 (0.11/day)
Likes
13
System Name First Gaming PC
Processor AMD APU Kaveri A10-7850k
Motherboard MSI A88XM-E45
Cooling Stock Cooler
Memory Kingston HyperX 8 GB 1866MHz
Video Card(s) Intergrated with CPU
Storage Kingston Hyperx 3k 120 GB(OS) + 1 TB WD Blue
Display(s) LG 20EN33V 1920 x 1080
Case Infinity Rave
Audio Device(s) Intergrated Sound Card
Power Supply Enermax NAXN 500w
Software Windows 8.1 64-bit
#15
Umm.... how can I explain properly... let me see.

I'm a half-professional / half-freelance "reviewer" (I tested computer hardware -mostly graphics card- , wrote articles and send them to several media (in Korea) and they give me money. (How simple ;)!) Of course I'm curious about those products and this is mostly as a personal sector. I myself is not a hardware-enthusiast but I need to maintain 'good' gaming platform to lessen bottleneck from other than graphics card. Currently I use i7 4930K @ 4.5GHz / R4E / Coolermaster 1.2KW PSU.

Is that a proper answer? Anyway, thanks for your reply :)
NUFF said. Thanks

EDIT : oh a reviewer, well i guess you ask a sample from Nvidia or AMD to reviewed those card, i am sure they are more than to send those sampe for you to analyze
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32 (0.01/day)
Likes
111
Location
South Korea
#16
NUFF said. Thanks

EDIT : oh a reviewer, well i guess you ask a sample from Nvidia or AMD to reviewed those card, i am sure they are more than to send those sampe for you to analyze
Ye....................................................up, but in many cases I (literally) purchase what I need to test, or borrow from distribution channel. Review a thing prior to its NDA is always (but very hard to reach) my dream. Besides, if someone get a sample before embargo, such receiving also remains (officially) unconfirmed. So in most case I have to answer "No" whether I received a sample from manufacturer or not. ;)
 

Athlon2K15

HyperVtX™
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
7,848 (1.92/day)
Likes
2,305
Location
O-H-I-O
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1800x
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling CH6 EK MonoBlock
Memory TridentZ 16GB DDR4 3600
Video Card(s) GTX 1080Ti EK Full Cover Block
Storage Samsung 960 Pro
Display(s) LG 34UC88 Curved Ultrawide
Case EVGA DG86
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse Asus Strix Evolve
Keyboard Asus Strix Claymore
#17
Vesuvius is a 6 Port Gigabit NIC from Intel