• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Works on "Zen 5" Micro-architecture Already

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
37,096 (8.62/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism
Memory 2x 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) Colorful iGame GTX 1070 Ti Vulcan X
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) Samsung U28D590 28-inch 4K UHD
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe
Power Supply Antec EarthWatts Pro Gold 750W
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard Microsoft Sidewinder X4
Software Windows 10 Pro
AMD late Monday posted a video of key people associated with the company's successful Ryzen processor family, to walk down memory lane and stare into the future, on its official YouTube channel. Mike Clark, who holds the designation of Sr. Fellow Design Engineering at AMD, stated that he is "already working on Zen 5." Going by AMD's naming convention, the number next to "Zen" denotes major micro-architecture generation since "Zen" and any "+" following the number denotes refinement to a newer silicon fabrication node. "Zen+," for example, is a refinement of "Zen 1" or simply "Zen" to the newer 12 nm process, and allows AMD engineers to make minor improvements without any major design changes.

On the other hand, "Zen 2" presents AMD with the opportunity to bring about major design changes (think "more than 4 cores per CCX"), or even improvements within the core itself. "Zen 5" is hence the fifth major micro-architecture chance since "Zen," although it would be premature to call it "6th generation Ryzen," as there could be several "+" stopgaps between "Zen +" and "Zen 5." To ensure people don't dismiss Clark's words for a slip of the tongue, AMD even annotated "Yes, he said Zen 5, see Endnote," and in the Endnote that has a lot of CYA statements, confirmed that "Zen 5" is a legit internal code-name for a micro-architecture AMD is working on.



The video follows.


View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (2.55/day)
That's cool. I mean, that AMD finally got traction on their CPU's. I just wish they'd achieve the same with GPU's. They were doing so well and their effort just flattened entirely in recent years. Which is a shame, they made amazing GPU's in the past. Not that distant past...
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
2,508 (1.09/day)
So I'm assuming Zen5 is Ryzen 5xxx series or has the Raja bug spread to the CPU division as well :shadedshu:
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
3,384 (0.63/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MX
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory Viper Steel DDR4 3600MHz 16-18-19
Video Card(s) Galax GeForce GTX 1080 EXOC-SNPR
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/ztiub6
So I'm assuming Zen5 is Ryzen 5xxx series or has the Raja bug spread to the CPU division as well :shadedshu:
Why would it be? Ryzen 2xxx isn't Zen 2, it's Zen+.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
2,508 (1.09/day)
Why would it be? Ryzen 2xxx isn't Zen 2, it's Zen+.
Because if it's the fifth major iteration to Zen then expect it to come no sooner than 6-8 years from now, AMD themselves are looking at tick tock. Also this ~


It is an internal codename, could be anything in reality though since PR isn't officially Zen+ IIRC
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
456 (0.17/day)
That's cool. I mean, that AMD finally got traction on their CPU's. I just wish they'd achieve the same with GPU's. They were doing so well and their effort just flattened entirely in recent years. Which is a shame, they made amazing GPU's in the past. Not that distant past...
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
6,136 (4.03/day)
Processor Intel i5-6600k
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Extreme7+
Cooling Arctic Cooling Freezer i11
Memory 2x8GB DDR4 2400 G.Skill
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 128 and 256GB OCZ Vertex4, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 3TB Seagate
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Case Chieftec BX01
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back.
So basically it's fine as long as it doesn't have to actually go up against competition ;)

In other news, companies have a development pipeline. That changes the way we understand the world around us :D
 
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
1,017 (0.23/day)
Location
Florida
Processor Ryzen2700x@ 4.15ghz 1.38v / Threadripper 1950x @ Stock
Motherboard Asus CH7wifi / Asus Zenith X399
Cooling Custom loop / Custom Dual loop
Memory 16gb ddr4 3600MHZ G SKill TridentZ RGB / 32gb ddr4 3200MHZ G.Skill TridentZ RGB
Video Card(s) XFX RX Vega 64 / Sapphire RX Vega 64
Storage HP EX920 1TB boot / Samsung 950 Pro 512GB boot
Display(s) Asus XG32VQ / Dell UltraSharp U2711
Case Lian Li 011-Dynamic in white /Phanteks Elite
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w / Seasonic Prime Titanium 1000w
Mouse Logitech G 900s
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB rapidfire/ Razer Chroma Black Widow
Software Win 10 Pro
So basically it's fine as long as it doesn't have to actually go up against competition ;)

In other news, companies have a development pipeline. That changes the way we understand the world around us :D
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
6,136 (4.03/day)
Processor Intel i5-6600k
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Extreme7+
Cooling Arctic Cooling Freezer i11
Memory 2x8GB DDR4 2400 G.Skill
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 128 and 256GB OCZ Vertex4, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 3TB Seagate
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Case Chieftec BX01
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
I was just picking on @sergionography 's wording. Sorry if I tarnished your precious :D
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
33 (0.07/day)
So Zen 3 is not last version of Zen, as they hinted. They have no resources to put in Zen 3 everything what they planned to do, so moved part of work into new revision
 
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
1,017 (0.23/day)
Location
Florida
Processor Ryzen2700x@ 4.15ghz 1.38v / Threadripper 1950x @ Stock
Motherboard Asus CH7wifi / Asus Zenith X399
Cooling Custom loop / Custom Dual loop
Memory 16gb ddr4 3600MHZ G SKill TridentZ RGB / 32gb ddr4 3200MHZ G.Skill TridentZ RGB
Video Card(s) XFX RX Vega 64 / Sapphire RX Vega 64
Storage HP EX920 1TB boot / Samsung 950 Pro 512GB boot
Display(s) Asus XG32VQ / Dell UltraSharp U2711
Case Lian Li 011-Dynamic in white /Phanteks Elite
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w / Seasonic Prime Titanium 1000w
Mouse Logitech G 900s
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB rapidfire/ Razer Chroma Black Widow
Software Win 10 Pro
I was just picking on @sergionography 's wording. Sorry if I tarnished your precious :D
That is one thing I don't care about. I'll buy whatever I want regardless of what people say. I can get a Titan V if I wanted to right now...I just refuse to. Don't spread fud is all I ask...comments like yours is why I and a lot of people I know are avoiding forums now a days, people cant act right anymore.


@TristanX all it is just a name, could be on a new socket and the sorts. Original Zen is over a year old, if there is a + after every revision then this could be about 5-8 years time.
 
Last edited:

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
6,136 (4.03/day)
Processor Intel i5-6600k
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Extreme7+
Cooling Arctic Cooling Freezer i11
Memory 2x8GB DDR4 2400 G.Skill
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 128 and 256GB OCZ Vertex4, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 3TB Seagate
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Case Chieftec BX01
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
So Zen 3 is not last version of Zen, as they hinted. They have no resources to put in Zen 3 everything what they planned to do, so moved part of work into new revision
Well, Prescott and Bulldozer have stayed with us for longer than 3 iterations and they were terrible CPUs. I'd be surprised if Zen didn't live past its third iteration.
But at the same time, AMD's own Hammer architecture which used to run circles around Intel, hasn't seen that many iterations in the end. So who knows?
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (2.55/day)
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
I know. I wanted one. t's just that it was unobtainable for months. And you basically still can't get an aftermarket one. I didn't mind the higher power draw. I have a quality 750W PSU.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
35 (0.01/day)
System Name HydroAMD
Processor AMD Ryzen 1700X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero w/ EK Monoblock
Cooling Watercooling: 360mm + 240mm Fans: 6x Corsair RGB 120mm
Memory 2x8GB G.Skill TridentZ @3200Mhz
Video Card(s) RX Vega 64 w/ EK Fullcover Waterblock
Storage Samsung Evo 960 500GB - 1TB 850 Pro - 512GB 850 Pro - 500GB 850 Evo
Display(s) Samsung 32" Curved QHD C32HG70 2560×1440
Case Corsair Crystal 570X
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DGX
Power Supply Corsair AX860
Mouse Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma
Software Windows 10 Pro
It should be no surprise that companies in the semi-conductor industry are working on 4-5+ generations ahead. It takes a LOOOONG time to develop these architectures and bring them to market... And, the fact that every company is sand-bagging... lol. Trust me, I work in the industry... We could have made memory modules with a TB+ of storage... but we don't, because that doesn't make a lot money over time.

Welcome to the industry... Where we know you'll always buy the next gen +10-15% performance boost. XD
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,522 (1.76/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Super Computer
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
Cooling Corsair H55 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Crucial/Micron Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX1060 6GB
Storage Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB SATA SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) HP 2311x and Acer G206HQL
Case CoolerMaster MasterBox Lite 5 RGB
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G3 Gold
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Logitech Wave K350
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
AMD Ryzen has definitely given Intel a much deserved kick in the rear end but I wouldn't say that Ryzen's been a complete success. There are definitely some issues that came up, memory compatibility, lower single-threaded performance and high clock speed when compared to that of Intel are three major issues that plagued Ryzen. Memory compatibility may be solved with Ryzen 2xxx series but certainly not the single-threaded performance issue along with the clock speed issue, those I seriously doubt will be fixed until Zen 2 (Ryzen 3xxx-series).
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
26,297 (5.97/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Objectively speaking, vega is actually solid, its just that nvidia has been on steroids with new architectures back to back. Nvidias dominance also is not related to their performance because historically; even when AMD had superior performance and architectures they still struggled to get market share. And with AMD pushing for dx12 (close to the metal capability) it only backfired because more developers design their games for nvidia in mind since its the no brainer thing to do with their higher marketshare. Vega as it stands has alot of untapped potential due to features that no one is using. For example Vega is more capable than pascal in general purpose compute, but thats useless when the majority of the professional world is stuck with nvidias proprietary ecosystem. In order for AMD to compete it needs to stop creating original balanced designs and create a simple shader heavy design that tackles the common mainstream game design model.
For lower power/budget it seems ok aka the new APUs, but the likes of 56/64, it strains and struggles.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,631 (0.60/day)
System Name panda
Processor 6700k
Motherboard sabertooth s
Cooling raystorm block<black ice stealth 240 rad<ek dcc 18w 140 xres
Memory 32gb ripjaw v
Video Card(s) 290x gamer<ntzx g10<antec 920
Storage 950 pro 250gb boot 850 evo pr0n
Display(s) QX2710LED@110hz lg 27ud68p
Case 540 Air
Audio Device(s) nope
Power Supply 750w superflower
Mouse g502
Keyboard shine 3 with grey, black and red caps
Software win 10
Benchmark Scores http://hwbot.org/user/marsey99/
zen 5 for ddr5 then?
 
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
1,017 (0.23/day)
Location
Florida
Processor Ryzen2700x@ 4.15ghz 1.38v / Threadripper 1950x @ Stock
Motherboard Asus CH7wifi / Asus Zenith X399
Cooling Custom loop / Custom Dual loop
Memory 16gb ddr4 3600MHZ G SKill TridentZ RGB / 32gb ddr4 3200MHZ G.Skill TridentZ RGB
Video Card(s) XFX RX Vega 64 / Sapphire RX Vega 64
Storage HP EX920 1TB boot / Samsung 950 Pro 512GB boot
Display(s) Asus XG32VQ / Dell UltraSharp U2711
Case Lian Li 011-Dynamic in white /Phanteks Elite
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w / Seasonic Prime Titanium 1000w
Mouse Logitech G 900s
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB rapidfire/ Razer Chroma Black Widow
Software Win 10 Pro
AMD Ryzen has definitely given Intel a much deserved kick in the rear end but I wouldn't say that Ryzen's been a complete success. There are definitely some issues that came up, memory compatibility, lower single-threaded performance and high clock speed when compared to that of Intel are three major issues that plagued Ryzen. Memory compatibility may be solved with Ryzen 2xxx series but certainly not the single-threaded performance issue along with the clock speed issue, those I seriously doubt will be fixed until Zen 2 (Ryzen 3xxx-series).
As if Intel don't have the same kind of release issues...I was a launch owner of the X99 platform. I still have some issues til this day...and I'm quite certain that I cant be the only one.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
456 (0.17/day)
Last I check Vega was pitted against the 1080 from AMDs slides, so unless you have internal knowledge...Vega did quite well. Sorry if it didn't fit your expectations.
It went up against gtx1080 because thats the best it can do right now. But what i was saying is that it has potential for much more except that AMD isnt dominant enough at this point to push their own technology and features to developers. To put things in perspective for you; Vega 64 has the same die size as a gtx1080 ti, and when run at the same power level as a 1080ti its actually a bit slower than a 1080.

For lower power/budget it seems ok aka the new APUs, but the likes of 56/64, it strains and struggles.
Yes because the way amd design their gpus isnt like nvidia. nvidia build their architecture with a preset configuration that gets scaled from top to buttom. Amd on the other hand uses a lego like approach so u end up with different chips from the same generation having varying efficiency due to their different configurations and ratio of compute units that make up the overall package. In general GCN/vega is way more general purpose than pascal, which also could be said is overengineered, so just like amd did with ryzen, they need to streamline their gpu architecture into a simple solid design. Over-engineering almost always ends up giving u some extra features or perks at the price of the main function of the product/design
 
Top