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AMD's HD5970 faster than Nvidia Fermi chip!

btarunr

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#26
One company is getting 20% yields, while the next company is getting 60-80% yields?

And they're using the same fab? Hmm. Something doesn't make sense there.
It does make sense. Fermi is likely too big a die to expect decent yields from.
 
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#27
Hmmm, 20% increase at 100% of the price.... something doesn't add up.

Even if Fermi does have a hot head., buy a card w/a lifetime warranty. :)

I'm doing my best to keep patient in all this 300 series debate. We can only wait until they are released for and final word.
 

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#28
^^

Naw, not 100% price increase! Are you nuts or what? That would make it $800, since the 5870 is selling for $400!

I'd expect NV to try $499 and nothing higher. There will be a 5890 to counter the Fermi!

Great news: That means the 5870 will instantly be pushed $100 down to $299 or lower!
 
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#29
indeed, another hd5870 for £200 or so would be a nice treat in the summer for a 'years uni work well done' :) Although i will need to get a new mobo, lol, but that's hardly a problem since i foresee me changing to either AMD's or intel 6 core processors (probably AMD's since they'll charge around £170-250 while intel are going to charge around £700, hardly a competition there).
 
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#31
indeed, but we can have pretty good educated guesses as to the price now that we have had the AMD cards. Nvidia need to make up the loss, and the length of delay and the apparent troubles with production point towards the $500 bracket or above. Either that or nvidia are going to have to take it on the chin for every card sold, something i can't see happening.
 

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#32
all i care about is buying a HD5850 for 200$ like i bought my HD4850:)
 
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#33
all i care about is buying a HD5850 for 200$ like i bought my HD4850:)
same here :laugh: ... i believe there are loads of people who want that to happen ... though I don't think that might happen .... might drop to $230 or so ... anyway will be the best price/performance card out there ... :rockout: ..

hoping+praying for a march FERMI release ... :D
 
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#34
Lol, even if fermi is amazing, ATi will probably still make money from people buying the hd5850 as a opencl/directcompute physics processor in the future due to it's price ^^ assuming that can happen of course.
 
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#36
yes, but it'll cost more than a hd5870 at least. Fermi does not have a midrange card yet as far as we know, we don't even know if they're even bringing out a gtx360! Either way, the hd5850 will probably drop to around £150, making it a superb secondary card in such a situation.
 

btarunr

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#37
yes, but it'll cost more than a hd5870 at least. Fermi does not have a midrange card yet as far as we know, we don't even know if they're even bringing out a gtx360! Either way, the hd5850 will probably drop to around £150, making it a superb secondary card in such a situation.
HD 5850 is a $300~$350 card. Competition will push the GTX 360 to the same price point. So the people who can now get HD 5850 will soon be able to get a more powerful GTX 360.
 
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#38
It makes sense that the hd5850 will drop to around $200-250 after the gtx360 release, which is why i'm saying if fermi does do well, it will make the hd5850 a cheap card to use as a secondary physics card. Not that technology is static, there is always a better card in any pricepoint on the way :) It's like people who buy a GTX360 will be able to buy a more powerful card afterwards, or indeed the gtx360 might be straying into hd5870 territory after it's inevitable price cut. Since ATi have already skimmed the uber profits from the earlier release, they will have no problem outpricing the gtx360 to death (whereas nvidia have a large chip, that's harder to make = smaller profit overhead to cut).

Nvidia must take the high end market with fermi, because ATi should be able to outprice them everywhere else.
 

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#39
It makes sense that the hd5850 will drop to around $200-250 after the gtx360 release, which is why i'm saying if fermi does do well, it will make the hd5850 a cheap card to use as a secondary physics card. Not that technology is static, there is always a better card in any pricepoint on the way :) It's like people who buy a GTX360 will be able to buy a more powerful card afterwards, or indeed the gtx360 might be straying into hd5870 territory after it's inevitable price cut. Since ATi have already skimmed the uber profits from the earlier release, they will have no problem outpricing the gtx360 to death.

Nvidia must take the high end market with fermi, because ATi should be able to outprice them everywhere else.
5850 as a physics card??? :eek::eek::eek:

Could we do that?!? In this life, and not sometime in 3000 AD?
 
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#40
i would imagine so if/when openCL/directcompute become widespread (which they probably will, especially DC because of microsoft). Companies have seen how nvidia have shifted cards by allowing them to be physX adapters.

i would imagine 2011 would be about right, or early 2012 if we must wait for the console tards to get physics too. It all depends on the dx11 success, so if someone is sitting there with xp, refusing to upgrade because 'dx9 is good enough' give them a sucker punch and tell them to go console :p pc gaming isn't about 'good enough' dammit!

In the end dx11 = the dawn of real widespread GPGPU, and not just a few scant apps.
 
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#41
HD 5850 is a $300~$350 card. Competition will push the GTX 360 to the same price point. So the people who can now get HD 5850 will soon be able to get a more powerful GTX 360.
I dont even really know if there will be a GTX360 initially. Nvidia has stated that the GF100 which is faster than the 5870 will be out in March and that the GF-104 which is speculated faster than the 5970 will be out Q2 2010. Dosent really make sense to me what Nvidia is really doing. Kinda sounds like the GTX 380=GF-100 and GTX 395=GF104 and if thats true i think the GF-100 will come in at about $500 and i really dont think it will drop the 5870 price down alot.
 
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#42
Theyre gonna have to sell it close to a loss until they can get a refresh out. This has happened in the past, this design just needs to be modified/simplified and shrunk and it will be a successful card.

Its really too bad about the manufacturing issues. This has pushed nvidia way back.
 
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#43
Indeed, nvidia have to play the game very carefully now, and get some mainstream cards out before they lose too much money.

Even if nvidia beat ati in performance at the high end, i bet the ati guys are pretty happy at the moment. They are the guys in the lead now, they've got a 6 month head start on the new series, and have had much more time to optimise their current cards. I think the only cards missing are the hd53xx and 54xx cards now.

Some may say it's too early, but based on the lateness of nvidia, the lack of mainstream segment cards, or even a sign of some and around 12 months (maximum until ati release the next series) before the generation ends (2 more of which we will see no nvidia cards), i will say:

First DX11 generation:
ATi 1 - Nvidia 0

Not that it is deserved after a few generations behind. I believe that will stand even if fermi beats hemlock.
 
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TAViX

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#44
But a bigger area will mean that it has a greater chance of a defect happening. 324/500=0.648, which means Nvidia has a 60% more chance of having a defect on its chip than ATI, if Ati yields are 60%. then Nvidia's chips will hit 24% success rate only, which is in line with the rumors.
EXACTLY!
 
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#45
Anybody looking forward to the upcoming ATI Radeon HD 7880 :toast:
 

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#46
I still find it odd, especially if as they claim, yields are so good that contrary to what they are saying, the cards in some area's are still not widely available and many that have been have been sold at bumped up prices, especially inthe UK it's fairly typical for a shop to have a list of say 10 different manufacturers cards, 9 of them are out of stock or pre-order, the one that is in stock isnt selling because it's priced around 20% above mrrp or if the price was competative it was sold out within an hour....... now this is some 3 months after initial release.
 
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#47
Yep, but the cards are trickling through slowly though. In the end demand is extremely is very high for the most part, and the UK is not really the hottest market to sell in. We always get ripped off by a 20% bump usually anyway, it'll be the same with fermi too.

Still, i got my card 3 months ago for just under £300 (around £15 more than a direct $ conversion + VAT) so i'm not feeling hard done by. Also, VAT just returned to 17.5%, bumping up the MRRP by around £6-7 or so anyway (whether or not this had been realized is another matter).

P.S. lambdatek are very good for selling at the MRRP, and their card is £291, up from £278 3 months ago, so i'm assuming VAT has definitely kicked back in.
 

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#48
Yep, but the cards are trickling through slowly though. In the end demand is extremely is very high for the most part, and the UK is not really the hottest market to sell in. We always get ripped off by a 20% bump usually anyway, it'll be the same with fermi too.

Still, i got my card 3 months ago for just under £300 (around £15 more than a direct $ conversion + VAT) so i'm not feeling hard done by. Also, VAT just returned to 17.5%, bumping up the MRRP by around £6-7 or so anyway (whether or not this had been realized is another matter).

P.S. lambdatek are very good for selling at the MRRP, and their card is £291, up from £278 3 months ago, so i'm assuming VAT has definitely kicked back in.

Thats a very nice deal, however "trickling through slowly" after 3 months to me isnt really good enough, especially if this article is true and there are no yeild issues, methinks AMD probably realised at some point they could get the drop on fermi so pushed the release even quicker to gain as much advantage as possible....that makes sense and is understandable but in the end it's the poor old consumer that often has to pay top dollar if they want to get their hands on one early....... although I appreciate thats wasnt the case for you.

Edit: just checked Lambdatek, they list about 9 HD5850's..... non in stock, they list about 10 HD5870's and they have one in stock but thats one of the more expensive ones (£330, thats $535), I shall keep my eye out there though becuase if they do get stock in at the prices advertised I will be on to one!
 
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#49
nvidia didn't learned from past yield problems -8800gtx...and is too late now to retreat so no matter how many good chips they squeeze from a wafer the prestige and credibility is the stake now;we'll see
 
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#50
Thats a very nice deal, however "trickling through slowly" after 3 months to me isnt really good enough, especially if this article is true and there are no yeild issues, methinks AMD probably realised at some point they could get the drop on fermi so pushed the release even quicker to gain as much advantage as possible....that makes sense and is understandable but in the end it's the poor old consumer that often has to pay top dollar if they want to get their hands on one early....... although I appreciate thats wasnt the case for you.

Edit: just checked Lambdatek, they list about 9 HD5850's..... non in stock, they list about 10 HD5870's and they have one in stock but thats one of the more expensive ones (£330, thats $535), I shall keep my eye out there though becuase if they do get stock in at the prices advertised I will be on to one!

Indeed, they do get the stock in usually, but since they are selling at probably the cheapest prices for most cards, they get swept up very very quickly. Lambdatek are generally a very good e-shop anyway, although their selection on some items (cases for example) can be a bit limited.