Another X1950Pro and Power consumption question

[VeDz]

Well, I am getting a HiS X1950 Pro AGP 256mb.

My system specs currently are:

Intel Celeron 2.7 Ghz (Northwood Core)
2 sticks of random DDR SDRAM
1 HDD (5400rpm)
ATi 9600 Pro (currently)
PSU, 250W.

As, you can see the computer itself isn't very demanding/performing. I am having doubts about the PSU though. Using the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator I can make it so my system consumes less than 250W, WITH the X1950 Pro inside, around 237W is the number it gave me. Also, people suggest that you have to look at the 12v rail? I looked at it and beside it, it listed as 218W. So 218W can be the maximum consumption of the 12V rail right? I took that 218W / 12 = 18A? I am pretty sure 18A for just a video card is a bit too much? I mean, my vacuum cleaner is 18A. .

Also, there is another system in my household which has a 300W maximum power supply. In this system, I have the X800XL and a lot of USB and CD drives. It is completely stable.

With some research I found out that the X800XL peak load power consumption is roughly 49W. Moreover, the X1950 Pro's is roughly 65-70W. So basically another 20 extra watts. I will take this power supply if my current one doesn't perform. Also, I think the 12V rail has 22A on this one.

Lastly, I know my system is quite crap and its going to bottleneck the X1950Pro. But, I will prepare for a upgrade real soon to better specs.

Thanks in advance for reading my essay

Regards,

VeDz.

 

[Namslas90]

PSU advice is touchy on forums. There are many opposing ideas.

1)My computer only need xxx watts.
Ok, but how hard do you want your PSU to work. If you match the watts exactly then your PSU will have to work "full time" in order to supply the required power.
This can result in a lower "lifespan" for your PSU, and even use more electricity then you think. It may also cause an additional expense with future"upgrades".

2)600 watts! I can't afford that much electricity.
Bogus!! You only use and pay for as much as your computer draws. Just because the PSU can supply 600 watts, doesn't mean it does "Full time". If your computer draws less then the PSU supplies then the PSU doesn't need to work as hard; this reduces heat and increases "lifespan" of PSU.

Therefore: Get the best Quality PSU you can afford that exceeds the requirements of your PC. The better the quality the longer it will last and the less problems you will have.

Yes your 1950 GPU needs more AMPS then you would expect, however keep in mind the standard card "draw" comes from the MOBO thru the PCI-E slot. When the card switches to 3D mode it will need to draw power from the additional power connector, this is the highest draw for the GPU. If the power is not there you will not be happy with the results.

 

[Namslas90]

Power requirement for the X1950 pro; 147 to 206(load) watts (appx)
12.25 amps to 17.167 amps (load). I believe ATI recomends 22 to 24 amps on the 12v Rail.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/radeon-x1950-pro/index.x?pg=10

 

[VeDz]

Thanks for the reply. It is just that, I won't be using approximately the full load of the PSU for more than 1 hour, everyday. Also, the card is an AGP one, if it makes a difference. But, if ATi recommends 22 to 24 amps on the 12v rail, I think the second power supply can suffice for that. Is there anyway to make sure? I can post a screenshot of the side of the powersupply for further confirmation.

Also, the power requirement for the X1950Pro at load is indeed 65-70W. The link that you showed is of the full system power requirement. I am sorry if I am incorrect. Again, thanks for the reply. !

 

[Namslas90]

Yeah that Total System power requirement VS GPU power requirement causes issues at times. Keep in mind that a single Rail PSU also supplies power to the Motherboard and all of it's components (memory,PCI cards,CPU, ETC) Off the same 12v rail. So be sure to include that into your estimation of the power you need. Most mobo's need around 8 to 10 amps(depending on Model, ammount of Ram, #/type of additional PCI cards etc). Whats left will end up being the power available to the aditional power connector to the GPU. Many GPU makers reccomend a Dual Rail PSU; However, as long as the total power available is present the single rails usually do a better job.

 

[VeDz]

UPDATE:

I recieved the X1950Pro, but somethings weird/wrong.

3dmark2001SE: 7800
3dmark2003: 11000

and yes, it is weird.


Specs:
Intel Celeron 2.7Ghz (Northwood Core)
2 sticks of ddr sdram
1 hdd
and a 250W power supply powering all of the above.

Now I am guessing the power supply has to do ample with my scores, not being high enough and the card not being in peak efficiency. I will be getting a 450W supply for sure tomorow or day after. I noticed that the idle temperature of the card remains 50 degrees celsius. While on LOAD it hits a max of 55 degrees celsius. I am guessing this is just another clue that the card is lacking power to perform at its max potential. AND this is after 3dmark03 benchmark.

I was expecting the card to hit temperatures of 70 degrees(load) judging by my case and my hot room. Can someone confirm this? that, the reason it is not hitting high LOAD temperatures when it has high IDLE temperature is because of the card not having enough juice to perform.

 

[Namslas90]

Hey VeDz, Please fill out your system specs (more detailed then what you posted), It will give members a much better idea of how to diagnose your particular issues with the new card. Click "User CP" and then "Edit System Specs". Thanks

 

[VeDz]

ok done

 

[Random Murderer]

ok, i dont have experience with the agp version, but it should essentially be the same...
my first question is:
is it the version with the 2-slot cooler?

 

[VeDz]

Nope, it is the 1 slot cooler. It looks exactly like this.

 

[Random Murderer]

ok, you wont really see a temp change with that cooler.
50°C idle and 55°C load sounds about right for that cooler...

 

[Namslas90]

I reviewed a few sites showing results with that card and different CPU's, and you got most of then beat in 3dMark03. Most of the test were in the 6000 to 9000 range. Now that doesn't mean you can't get more out of it or that its a high score, its just what I found available in a short quick search.
So, basicly it looks good so far.

Download Aquamark 3 and give it a run;
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/124/Aquamark_3.html

 

[VeDz]

I think those marks are for 3dmark 05, where a x1950 pro is supposed to score like 10k. Around 13-15k for 03, and about 4.5k for 06. Definetly something is wrong, I will be buying a power supply today. After that if it still has messed up scores, then I can definitely blame it on my horrible CPU.

6000-9000 :| on 03, even my x800Xl scored higher with 10k.

ok, you wont really see a temp change with that cooler.
50°C idle and 55°C load sounds about right for that cooler...

So it is a good cooler?

 

[Ketxxx]

Your gonna need a good 500w PSU to run things both comfortably and stable. Not to mention give yourself enough power to OC the crap out of that Celeron, which is going to be a huge bottleneck for a X1950 Pro. Hopefully your mobo gives you some good OC options in its BIOS.

 

[VeDz]

My Celeron can handle it over clocking that is. But, my mobo can't. It limits it at 3.00ghz, with the vcore at 1.5-1.75. That doesn't make a difference at all. I agree, that the X1950 Pro is going to be bottlenecked. My best bet is a P4 =.00Ghz. Even, that, will probably bottleneck my X1950 Pro. Socket 478

 

[Widjaja]

Herer's a link to the recommended PSU's for the X1950pro
http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossf...dyourown2.html

The recommended PSU is 450W with a 12v30a single rail or 12v22a dual rail PSU for a fully loaded system which yours is not.

I'm using a Enermax Noisetaker 600W 12v18 dual rail at the moment which has not caused any issues.

I am running a P4 3.0E HT @ 3.2Ghz and appears to be slightly bottlenecking it.

I've also noticed a decrease in performance in SIMS2 over my 7600GS as I don't think it can handle the quality of the textures the X1950pro gives to that game.

I've also noticed CCC causing a performance decrease in my system.
I am currently using just the display drivers which have made the performance of my system much better.

I will be trying out Omega drivers after the post and I'll let you know if there is any performance decrease or not like CCC.

 

[Ketxxx]

My Celeron can handle it over clocking that is. But, my mobo can't. It limits it at 3.00ghz, with the vcore at 1.5-1.75. That doesn't make a difference at all. I agree, that the X1950 Pro is going to be bottlenecked. My best bet is a P4 =.00Ghz. Even, that, will probably bottleneck my X1950 Pro. Socket 478

You considered a cheap mobo\CPU\RAM upgrade? You can pick up an E4400, nVidia 650i chipset based mobo and some cheap (but decent) 2x1GB DDR2 memory for a total cost of like $300. Less if you need to penny pinch a bit.

E4400 $139
Abit IB9 $73 after MIR
2x1GB ADATA PC6400 4-4-4-12 timings, $80 after MIR

All this, is of course based on the assumption you have the funds and havent already bought the AGP 1950Pro.

 

[VeDz]

haha already bought the X1950 Pro Ok, I have bought a PSU too. 500W, and 28A on the 12V rail. Should suffice, I guess. I will post some marks to see if it made any difference.

 

[VeDz]

I don't think the wattage/amp was ever the problem. I have nothing else connected to the new power supply, than my X1950Pro, the mobo and hdd + cpu. Just as before, I am getting the same problem.

3dmark2001SE: 7800
3dmark2003: 11000
3dmark2005: coming up.

I bet its my darn cpu, that is bottlenecking it so much. But, one thing, the X1950Pro did goto a temperature of 70C. So I am a bit happy about that.

 

[Ketxxx]

70c is kinda hot for a 1950 Pro..

Long shot, but you tried the latest drivers and DirectX?

 

[VeDz]

Yep, I have the latest of both. An update for 3dmark2005, I scored 2500 :| Something, is honestly messed up. Even having a celeron 2.7ghz shouldn't bottleneck it to 1/5 of its capability. Funny thing, he games that came with the card also have fps lag.

Also, the ATi Tray Tools benchmark gave me 4700.

 

[Widjaja]

Even high end P4's can't really handle a X1950pro AGP

I tried Omega drivers and they are no better for the system in performance.
I'd say the P4's even 3Ghz are not good enough for this card,
since my P4 3.0E HT@ 3.2Ghz still doesn't make any change.

I found the best peformance is with just the display driver so far.

I believe these cards are made for AMD/AGP motherboards since the AMD motherboards have access to faster CPU's which are needed for this GPU than P4 motherboards.

I'll be doing some tweaks in ATi tray tools to see if I can get any better improvements.

The dreaded conclution

Two options.

1:-Cheapest solution
Replace your P4 with a AMD 939skt AGPmotherboard with one of the fastest CPU's you can get for it and 1Gig of DDR400 or 500 if you are into OC'ing.

2:-Obvious solution
Sorry to say this but at the end of the day you're better to invest in a better spec'd PCI-E rig if you want smooth all round performance in gaming without having to tweak and tweak.


*Optional option
you could buy an XBOX360 or PS3

 

[VeDz]

Can you post your ATi Tray Tool benchmark? I was thinking of upgrading to a P4..but if that doesn't even cut it, I have no clue what to do. :|

Honestly, I am getting the same performance that I got in games with my 9600 Pro in the same setup. It feels like the X1950 Pro isn't even trying. When I start my task manager in between games, I see my CPU being at 100%. I HATE THIS CPU It is not even a CeleronD that could be later upgraded to a Core 2 Duo or something, just a plain celeron socket 478, with the max upgrade to a P4 3.0Ghz(No HT). Which they made a Core 2 Duo for socket 478...

 

[Xaser04]

I have a x1950pro and my system at peak uses 587 watts.

What else do you have in your system?

587 watts is well over double what most review sites show as the peak load for a system with a X1950pro.

In fact thats higher than a HD2900XT / 8800Ultra

As for the op well you are MASSIVELY cpu bottlenecked. (this is shown by the fact that your 3dmark03 score (the one that isn't so heavily reliant on the cpu) isn't *that* bad in comparison to the other two benchmarks)

The old Northwood based celerons were erm heavily cut down* compared to their P4 siblings (only 128k L2 cache) which really hampers performance.

*this is a nice way of putting it.

A p4 at 3ghz or above should provide a nice boost although that will still bottleneck the card somewhat.

A way of getting around cpu bottlenecking ( to some degree) is to move the load to the GPU (ie by running higher resolutions with AA/AF max settings) however this will only work if the game isn't cpu dependant. (although its something to try)

 

[Widjaja]

Best option I can think of for you

I'll post a an ATi tray tool benchmark for you tomorrow.

I don't know if you've heard of Video benchmark stability test?
http://freestone-group.com/video-card-stability-test/benchmark-results.html

Here's a benchmark I already have
The Gigabyte nVidia 7600GS 256mb scored 1011fps but plays some games better.
The Sapphire ATi X1950pro 512mb scored 2180fps with Omega drivers.

As for frame performance yes it is better frame wise but there are areas where the frames get stuttery and double visioned in some games.

You say you don't know what to do?
Go for option one if you want to use that card to a decent potential as well as play todays games.

Well it's the best option I can think of without putting you way out of pocket.

Seriously your motherboard, and CPU are not suited to that GPU which could have been outlined in the sale of the card.

But then why would they if it's going to decrease the sales margin.