Apple M1 Max Beats GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU in GFXBench 5.0, but Doesn't Shine in Geekbench

TheLostSwede · Oct 21, 2021

This should be taken with a fair helping of salt, considering GFXBench 5.0 is mobile device focused benchmark, even though the company behind claims it's a platform independent benchmark. Regardless of that, it looks like the new 32 core GPU in Apple's M1 Max SoC offers some pretty competitive performance, as it manages GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU in said test.

However, this is a median score for the GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU and many of the tests that make up GFXBench 5.0 aren't using DirectX, which is one likely reason for Apple's M1 Max GPU beating the Nvidia card. On the other hand, all tests seem to support Metal, which is Apple's 3D API, whereas the Nvidia card has to fall back to using OpenGL which tends to offer lower performance than DirectX in games. In most of the tests we're looking at an average performance advantage of less than 10 percent in favour of Apple, but it's nonetheless impressive considering that Apple hasn't been in the GPU business for very long.

On the other hand, in a Geekbench OpenCL test, the M1 Max is losing out against a GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU by quite some margin depending on the test. Neither is of course a real world scenario and we're going to wait a little while longer to see how well Apple's new SoCs really performs and more importantly, what the limitations are in terms of software compatibility.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

btarunr · Oct 21, 2021

M1 Max will start a new trend. Finally AMD will build PC processors with larger iGPUs (think 32 CU or higher). Intel probably anticipates this, and has Xe HPG on the ready for integration.

CPUs with iGPUs fast enough for mainstream gaming will kill the xx50 or even xx60-class dGPUs. Crypto is driving this change.

phanbuey · Oct 21, 2021

Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

Wonder if the game console skunkworks is still in flight over there.

They have:
1. A high performance API (Metal)
2. A high performance Chip and ecosystem across many devices/device types
3. 24-120Hz VRR capability on new devices -- iphone, ipad and macbook with built in displays
4. A decent market share of loyal apple fans who also have a gaming PC/Xbox on the side.

What they need:
2. Market share and gaming content either by:
a. Ability to port content/games
b. Enticing developers to make popular content for their platforms.

Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long. They have the capability to roll out AAA game titles across the entire platform.

TheLostSwede · Oct 21, 2021

btarunr said:
M1 Max will start a new trend. Finally AMD will build PC processors with larger iGPUs (think 32 CU or higher). Intel probably anticipates this, and has Xe HPG on the ready for integration.

CPUs with iGPUs fast enough for mainstream gaming will kill the xx50 or even xx60-class dGPUs. Crypto is driving this change.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions quite yet, but it does indeed look a lot better than any current or expected next generation iGPU from AMD or Intel. However, I'm not sure sure it will beat a mid-range discrete mobile GPU in actual games.

Bomby569 · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long.

what stoped them was never lack of a good cpu or gpu, you could have that in a apple.

TheLostSwede · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

Wonder if the game console skunkworks is still in flight over there.

They have:
1. A high performance API (Metal)
2. A high performance Chip and ecosystem across many devices/device types
3. 24-120Hz VRR capability on new devices -- iphone, ipad and macbook with built in displays
4. A decent market share of loyal apple fans who also have a gaming PC/Xbox on the side.

What they need:
2. Market share and gaming content either by:
a. Ability to port content/games
b. Enticing developers to make popular content for their platforms.

Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long. They have the capability to roll out AAA game titles across the entire platform.

Next Apple TV, maybe?

phanbuey · Oct 21, 2021

Bomby569 said:
what stoped them was never lack of a good cpu or gpu, you could have that in a apple.

You could have that in SOME apples, depending on the gen... But it was too split up, way too expensive and the market share of apple users with dGPUs was teeny. When they had nvidia they didn't have Metal (no API), when they had AMD, they weren't competitive with Nvidia.... and overpriced. Puny gaming market share compared to their cheaper devices (unless you count candy crush and phone games, which blew up and made tons of money). At that time the chips in the phones and ipads were just barely starting to get powerful enough.

It's now trickled through the entire stack -- (ipad, iphone, computer etc. Apple TV?? Mac Mini??) -- and it's now using the same API... with chips that have some serious power. Now you have the ability to write a game for the ipad that will run native on the mac and vice versa, and it's pushing 3080 laptop numbers through the API.

There is really some great potential here. It's just missing games/ports. Really interesting -- great article.

TheLostSwede said:
Next Apple TV, maybe?

That's what I'm thinking/hoping...

Darmok N Jalad · Oct 21, 2021

Apple TV hardware continues to be a missed opportunity for Apple. If they actually dropped a version with pro or Max in it, maybe they’d get more than a passing interest. That said, gaming on AppleTV really isn’t a bad experience right now. It reminds me a lot of Nintendo gaming, where graphics are decent, but not realism focused like Sony and MS. My kids love playing Frogger, cat quest, and oceanhorn on our old 4K, and if it weren’t for the gaming aspect, we would never use our AppleTV. An annual subscription to Arcade is pretty cheap, and the whole family shares it and uses it. It could certainly have more games, but it has slowly improved. There’s definitely some amateur games in there, but also some surprisingly good ones too.

I would expect the Pro and Max to offer some solid performance. The base M1 is a known commodity, and pro and max just expand on that, and memory bandwidth is certainly there. There’s potential for a console-like experience, but will we actually see that kind of adoption from developers? Apple’s fees might be a bit of a challenge, but aren’t they in line with what MS and Sony charge?

usiname · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

What power did you saw? GFXBench is not optimized and force nvidia to use OpenGL. Geekbench is also useless, but at least both run on OpenGL and M1 Max which has more transisotrs for the GPU than 3090 is losing to 80W GA106. What a shame

john_ · Oct 21, 2021

btarunr said:
M1 Max will start a new trend. Finally AMD will build PC processors with larger iGPUs (think 32 CU or higher). Intel probably anticipates this, and has Xe HPG on the ready for integration.

CPUs with iGPUs fast enough for mainstream gaming will kill the xx50 or even xx60-class dGPUs. Crypto is driving this change.

I would love to see an AMD APU with 32 CUs, but probably it will not happen. You need a huge amount of memory bandwidth and also AMD is not going to start competing it's own products. If an iGPU of this kind was coming out, it would need a special motherboard with onboard GDDR6 memory (think SidePort memory from 10+ years ago or dedicated memory) plus Infinity cache and probably that APU would cost as much as $300+ discrete GPU if not more.
I wouldn't expect more than 14-16 CUs in the near future.
Hope to end up wrong. The fastest I am proved wrong, the better.

PS Also SONY and Microsoft wouldn't be happy with such a product, except if it is ridiculously expensive.

phanbuey · Oct 21, 2021

usiname said:
What power did you saw? GFXBench is not optimized and force nvidia to use OpenGL. Geekbench is also useless, but at least both run on OpenGL and M1 Max which has more transisotrs for the GPU than 3090 is losing to 80W GA106. What a shame

Sure... here:

10.4 Tflops M1 max vs 35.6 Tflops RTX 3090... now let's see the PS5... 10.2 tflops.

This shows that the Metal API is at least somewhat capable of translating those theoretical numbers into FPS - and those are more than enough for high-end gaming / top tier console device.

seth1911 · Oct 21, 2021

LOL yeah Apple makes a such good IGP on M1 because u cant play even any Game before :toast:

U still have fun with a Stupid Benchmark like Geekbench or GFXBench

Thats awesome if i change my registry R7 IGP would be same as fast like a 6800 in GFX Bench :laugh:

We have now since a decade Years, 3DMark, Unigine Benchmark, in Game Benches etc. et all,
but because its Apple we need a totaly Bullshit Bingo Benchmark. :eek:

Then can the holly M1 run Crysis ?, nah it cant on 30 FPs even on lowest in 720p

Daven · Oct 21, 2021

john_ said:
I would love to see an AMD APU with 32 CUs, but probably it will not happen. You need a huge amount of memory bandwidth and also AMD is not going to start competing it's own products. If an iGPU of this kind was coming out, it would need a special motherboard with onboard GDDR6 memory (think SidePort memory from 10+ years ago or dedicated memory) plus Infinity cache and probably that APU would cost as much as $300+ discrete GPU if not more.
I wouldn't expect more than 14-16 CUs in the near future.
Hope to end up wrong. The fastest I am proved wrong, the better.

PS Also SONY and Microsoft wouldn't be happy with such a product, except if it is ridiculously expensive.

You are forgetting that there is very little difference between DDR and GDDR memory. The later just has more ‘channels’ if you will and higher speeds. Apple is getting 200 GB/s and 400 GB/s using DDR5 memory on the Pro and Max respectively. This is not GDDR memory. How are they doing it? The chips have 4 and 8 channels running at 6400 MHz.

An AMD iGPU just needs quad channel DDR5 6400 to achieve similar bandwidth as a 3050 to 3060.

IceShroom · Oct 21, 2021

One thing people need to remember, Those cross platform benchmark dont run same workload across different platform. It is comparing two system running different CPU, different Kernel and OS and different graphics API's. And let not forget "Optimization" for benchmark.
It is like comparing one gpu running OpenGL on linux to another gpu running DX12 on Windows. It is not same-to-same comparison.

john_ · Oct 21, 2021

Mark Little said:
You are forgetting that there is very little difference between DDR and GDDR memory. The later just has more ‘channels’ if you will and higher speeds. Apple is getting 200 GB/s and 400 GB/s using DDR5 memory on the Pro and Max respectively. This is not GDDR memory. How are they doing it? The chips have 4 and 8 channels running at 6400 MHz.

An AMD iGPU just needs quad channel DDR5 6400 to achieve similar bandwidth as a 3050 to 3060.

We are going back to what I posted. A special, much more expensive, motherboard.

TheLostSwede · Oct 21, 2021

Mark Little said:
Apple is getting 200 GB/s and 400 GB/s using DDR5 memory on the Pro and Max respectively. This is not GDDR memory. How are they doing it? The chips have 4 and 8 channels running at 6400 MHz.

It's LPDDR5 for one and they're using a 512-bit bus, which is much wider than most graphics cards, so it's not just about channels. AMD can never get that wide bus in a PC. DDR5 will offer a quad-channel 32-bit bus, well, technically 40-bit, but the extra eight are for ECC.
Apple also has lower latency due to the memory placement, something we're also unlikely to ever see in a PC.

IceShroom said:
One thing people need to remember, Those cross platform benchmark dont run same workload across different platform. It is comparing two system running different CPU, different Kernel and OS and different graphics API's. And let not forget "Optimization" for benchmark.
It is like comparing one gpu running OpenGL on linux to another gpu running DX12 on Windows. It is not same-to-same comparison.

Hence to take this with a helping of salt and all the other disclaimers I put in.

TheoneandonlyMrK · Oct 21, 2021

Meh.

Give me a shout when it beats it at crysis or something.

Bomby569 · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
You could have that in SOME apples, depending on the gen... But it was too split up, way too expensive and the market share of apple users with dGPUs was teeny. When they had nvidia they didn't have Metal (no API), when they had AMD, they weren't competitive with Nvidia.... and overpriced. Puny gaming market share compared to their cheaper devices (unless you count candy crush and phone games, which blew up and made tons of money). At that time the chips in the phones and ipads were just barely starting to get powerful enough.

It's now trickled through the entire stack -- (ipad, iphone, computer etc. Apple TV?? Mac Mini??) -- and it's now using the same API... with chips that have some serious power. Now you have the ability to write a game for the ipad that will run native on the mac and vice versa, and it's pushing 3080 laptop numbers through the API.

There is really some great potential here. It's just missing games/ports. Really interesting -- great article.

Macs were never cheap, and neither are these, people don't buy Apple for their cheap prices. It was nothing and never has been nothing related to price.

R0H1T · Oct 21, 2021

john_ said:
I would love to see an AMD APU with 32 CUs, but probably it will not happen. You need a huge amount of memory bandwidth and also AMD is not going to start competing it's own products. If an iGPU of this kind was coming out, it would need a special motherboard with onboard GDDR6 memory (think SidePort memory from 10+ years ago or dedicated memory) plus Infinity cache and probably that APU would cost as much as $300+ discrete GPU if not more.
I wouldn't expect more than 14-16 CUs in the near future.
Hope to end up wrong. The fastest I am proved wrong, the better.

PS Also SONY and Microsoft wouldn't be happy with such a product, except if it is ridiculously expensive.

They will eventually get there, even if it takes some more time. CPUs make a lot more money for AMD & will continue to do so despite the inflated GPU prices, then with MCM & unified memory this is just a natural evolution. The only real question is whether these will be monolithic dies, with such insane IGP, or something like desktop Ryzen 5xxx series.

There's HBM, infinity cache & even quad channel DDR5 memory can solve a large part of this issue.

goodeedidid · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

Wonder if the game console skunkworks is still in flight over there.

They have:
1. A high performance API (Metal)
2. A high performance Chip and ecosystem across many devices/device types
3. 24-120Hz VRR capability on new devices -- iphone, ipad and macbook with built in displays
4. A decent market share of loyal apple fans who also have a gaming PC/Xbox on the side.

What they need:
2. Market share and gaming content either by:
a. Ability to port content/games
b. Enticing developers to make popular content for their platforms.

Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long. They have the capability to roll out AAA game titles across the entire platform.

The power and efficiency is exactly their because Apple makes their own SoC and writes their own lines.. duhh nobody else is doing this.

Making Macs gaming machines isn't their top priority and also I don't think it should be.

Aquinus · Oct 21, 2021

btarunr said:
Finally AMD will build PC processors with larger iGPUs (think 32 CU or higher).

I would be thrilled if that turned out to be the case. It's almost like Apple stole AMD's old "The future is fusion" slogan. :laugh:

phanbuey · Oct 21, 2021

Bomby569 said:
Macs were never cheap, and neither are these, people don't buy Apple for their cheap prices. It was nothing and never has been nothing related to price.

Macs were not 'cheap' but they had good value for money for what they offered. They were also not crazy expensive when taking everything into account. Now - The base M1 is a $1400 device that in some workloads smashes desktop machines that are almost 2x the price. It's not cheap but it's phenomenal value for the money.

If you compare to:

Then these are very competitive for the performance. A $1,400 iPad with an M1X won't be cheap but it will be good value if you can hook it up to your tv and run PS5-quality games on it....

goodeedidid said:
The power and efficiency is exactly their because Apple makes their own SoC and writes their own lines.. duhh nobody else is doing this.

Making Macs gaming machines isn't their top priority and also I don't think it should be.

You mean like Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo?... they're 100% doing it.

Expanding macs into the GIANT gaming market is a great way to expand macs in general. There's a ton of demand and opportunity there. Many gamers are aging into being professionals that still love to game, and don't want a UFO looking laptop designed for 15 year olds.

MIRTAZAPINE · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

Wonder if the game console skunkworks is still in flight over there.

They have:
1. A high performance API (Metal)
2. A high performance Chip and ecosystem across many devices/device types
3. 24-120Hz VRR capability on new devices -- iphone, ipad and macbook with built in displays
4. A decent market share of loyal apple fans who also have a gaming PC/Xbox on the side.

What they need:
2. Market share and gaming content either by:
a. Ability to port content/games
b. Enticing developers to make popular content for their platforms.

Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long. They have the capability to roll out AAA game titles across the entire platform.

You can run Windows games on M1 mac with "Crossover app" though compatibility is still a work in progress. It uses a linux like WIne layer to enable that ability like Linux gaming. I am curious how these new m1 pro chip would do. It amazing how this done on the fly with M1 being a non x86 cpu running x86 apps.

TheoneandonlyMrK · Oct 21, 2021

phanbuey said:
Definitely the power is there if the software is able to use it... and since apple writes their own software well...

Wonder if the game console skunkworks is still in flight over there.

They have:
1. A high performance API (Metal)
2. A high performance Chip and ecosystem across many devices/device types
3. 24-120Hz VRR capability on new devices -- iphone, ipad and macbook with built in displays
4. A decent market share of loyal apple fans who also have a gaming PC/Xbox on the side.

What they need:
2. Market share and gaming content either by:
a. Ability to port content/games
b. Enticing developers to make popular content for their platforms.

Apple could very well be a name in gaming here before too long. They have the capability to roll out AAA game titles across the entire platform.

Erm few things, I don't see people being That into paying more for something to game on ,that has a serious lack of storage upgrades , games and peripherals but yeah it Could play games.

I mean if you have it already fine, but I can't see it swinging console or pc gamers on mass though.

yotano211 · Oct 21, 2021

I wondering what 3080 mobile are they talking about. The lowest rated 3080 is 80w, the highest is 150w. With boost it can go from 90w to 165w.

System Name	Overlord Mk MLI
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
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Benchmark Scores	https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v

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Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

System Name	Overlord Mk MLI
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory	32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s)	Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage	1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s)	Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case	Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s)	Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply	be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse	Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard	Corsair K70 Max
Software	Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v

Processor	Ryzen 5 5700x
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Storage	Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
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Case	Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply	MSI 750w
Mouse	G502

Apple M1 Max Beats GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU in GFXBench 5.0, but Doesn't Shine in Geekbench

TheLostSwede

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btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator

phanbuey

TheLostSwede

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TheLostSwede

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phanbuey

Darmok N Jalad

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john_

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MIRTAZAPINE

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yotano211

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Processor	Ryzen 5 7600X
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Keyboard	CoolerMaster Devastator III Plus / Coolermaster Devastator / Logitech
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Memory	ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
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Software	Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC

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System Name	Fat NCASE
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Mouse	Elecom wireless mouse :)
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Software	Windows 10 HOME
Benchmark Scores	Don't know any benchmark. It runs good enough for me.

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Processor	intel i7 11800h
Cooling	2 laptop fans
Memory	32gb of 3000mhz DDR4
Video Card(s)	Nvidia 3070
Storage	x2 PNY 8tb cs2130 m.2 SSD--16tb of space
Display(s)	17.3" IPS 1920x1080 240Hz
Power Supply	280w laptop power supply
Mouse	Logitech m705
Keyboard	laptop keyboard
Software	lots of movies and Windows 10 with win 7 shell
Benchmark Scores	Good enough for me