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Apple Updates M1 Mac Mini with 10 GbE Upgrade Option

Uskompuf

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Apple has quietly added a new M1 Mac Mini configuration option to their website with an optional upgrade from the internal 1 Gbps Ethernet to 10 Gbps Ethernet at the time of purchase for 100 USD. The upgrade is only available as a factory option and cannot be added after purchase so those who require 10 GbE will want to purchase the upgrade at the time of purchase. For existing M1 Mac Mini owners it is possible to get 10 GbE with a USB 4 / Thunderbolt 3 dongle such as the OWC Thunderbolt 3 10G which retails for 149 USD. Why Apple has only just now decided to include this 10 GbE upgrade as an option and not with the original launch is unknown.



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Yeah IIRC it was built into their Xserve RAID device (TIL that it was compatible with Windows :eek:) but I think you needed to buy the add-in card for compatibility with Xserve

 
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is it 10gbps RJ45, or is it SFP+?
10GBase-T is better for most users, especially those who have a home 10gig network like myself. You cannot run DACs through your walls, dealing with fiber is a hassle compared to CAT6a, CAT6a is cheap, and you don't need to buy expensive transceivers, plus you can use all your 1gig devices without problem.... Though, I am surprised Apple didn't use SFP+ just to sell customers expensive, Apple branded transceivers for $500
 
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Mainstream 10 GbE @ PCs pleaaase.
 
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Yeah IIRC it was built into their Xserve RAID device (TIL that it was compatible with Windows :eek:) but I think you needed to buy the add-in card for compatibility with Xserve

That doesn't look like a computer though, but rather a server, so maybe a bit moot point?

10GBase-T is better for most users, especially those who have a home 10gig network like myself. You cannot run DACs through your walls, dealing with fiber is a hassle compared to CAT6a, CAT6a is cheap, and you don't need to buy expensive transceivers, plus you can use all your 1gig devices without problem.... Though, I am surprised Apple didn't use SFP+ just to sell customers expensive, Apple branded transceivers for $500
I was hoping for 40Gbps Thunderbolt networking by Apple, since they support it. All you need is some $900 fibre based Thunderbolt cables to run through your home.

Mainstream 10 GbE @ PCs pleaaase.
Sadly the controllers are still too big, run too hot and cost too much for that to happen.
But if you have a design breakthrough that will fix those issues, please let us know.
 
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Sadly the controllers are still too big, run too hot and cost too much for that to happen.
But if you have a design breakthrough that will fix those issues, please let us know.
And yet you can get one in a $900 mac mini. Hmmmmm.....Power and heat are clearly not an issue anymore if you can fit one in a tiny PC like this.

Moreover we've had good motherboards with 10Gb LAN before. The likes of the taichi ultimate offered a 10Gb LAN and two 1Gb LANs for $300, yet despite this we never saw the competition do that. Even now we only see 2.5Gb LAN, and not on all boards, despite the rounding error in costs for the improvement over 1Gb LAN. Oh but we'll see the expensive wifi 6 chip put on board instead with 50 billion RGBs.

Why motherboard makers will sell totally useless overbuilt VRMs and extensive heatsink designs but NOT 10Gb LAN is beyond me.
 
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Great addition.

They need to finalize driver support for eGPUs via TB.
 
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And yet you can get one in a $900 mac mini. Hmmmmm.....Power and heat are clearly not an issue anymore if you can fit one in a tiny PC like this.

Moreover we've had good motherboards with 10Gb LAN before. The likes of the taichi ultimate offered a 10Gb LAN and two 1Gb LANs for $300, yet despite this we never saw the competition do that. Even now we only see 2.5Gb LAN, and not on all boards, despite the rounding error in costs for the improvement over 1Gb LAN. Oh but we'll see the expensive wifi 6 chip put on board instead with 50 billion RGBs.

Why motherboard makers will sell totally useless overbuilt VRMs and extensive heatsink designs but NOT 10Gb LAN is beyond me.
You really love making unsubstantiated claims, don't you?

Everything is relative, isn't it? A normal 1Gbps Ethernet controller has around 0.5W TDP if we're looking at Intel. Their 2.5Gbps controller is around 2W.
Intel's currently best 10Gbps sits at 8W and Marvell/Aquantia is 6W.

In terms of physical size, you're looking at something that's at least 12x14mm for Marvell/Aquantia and 17x17mm for Intel at 10Gbps, whereas Intel's 1Gbps chips are 6x6mm and their 2.5Gbps chips are 7x7mm. So yes, this would matter in a lot of devices.

Cost wise you're looking at around $2.40 for Intel's 2.5Gbps chips, whereas Marvell/Aquantia is in the range of $30-35.

But I guess none of this matters to you right? You'll make a board and eat the cost difference, right? There's a reason why Apple charges $100 for the 10Gpbs upgrade.

We see 2.5Gbps now because it's CHEAP, what part of that is it that you don't get? It'll replace 1Gbps Ethernet over time as the default standard due to it's comparable cost and the fact that it works over Cat 5e. You clearly are only looking at things from your point of view, without understanding the bigger picture.

ASRock was far from the only company that offered 10Gbps, Gigabyte even had a board with dual 10Gbps ports at one point and Asus has had 10Gbps onboard as well.

A fancy heatsinks costs the board makers a buck or two in most cases, maybe four if it's really nice with a heatsink, which is a big difference compared to $30+.
 
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You really love making unsubstantiated claims, don't you?

Everything is relative, isn't it? A normal 1Gbps Ethernet controller has around 0.5W TDP if we're looking at Intel. Their 2.5Gbps controller is around 2W.
Intel's currently best 10Gbps sits at 8W and Marvell/Aquantia is 6W.

In terms of physical size, you're looking at something that's at least 12x14mm for Marvell/Aquantia and 17x17mm for Intel at 10Gbps, whereas Intel's 1Gbps chips are 6x6mm and their 2.5Gbps chips are 7x7mm. So yes, this would matter in a lot of devices.

Cost wise you're looking at around $2.40 for Intel's 2.5Gbps chips, whereas Marvell/Aquantia is in the range of $30-35.
Wow. Stop taking things so personally chief. Take a chill pill.

This is a shocking revelation, but have you considered that, if there was an option to purchase a board with 10Gb ethernet, some people might actually pay for it? I never would have guessed, but given we live in a world where enthusiasts are willing to pay more for larger VRMs, RGB, or other features, they may be willing to pay for 10Gb as well, and as boards like the taichi ultimates proved, space and thermal issues can not only be solved easily, but are not really all that noticeable in terms of board design. And again, apple can manage the additional heat output and size in a mac mini, shoudlnt be that hard to manage on a ATX motherboard, right? Unless apple has some magic space shrinking magic.

There's a reason why Apple charges $100 for the 10Gpbs upgrade.

We see 2.5Gbps now because it's CHEAP, what part of that is it that you don't get? It'll replace 1Gbps Ethernet over time as the default standard due to it's comparable cost and the fact that it works over Cat 5e.
ASRock was far from the only company that offered 10Gbps, Gigabyte even had a board with dual 10Gbps ports at one point and Asus has had 10Gbps onboard as well.

A fancy heatsinks costs the board makers a buck or two in most cases, maybe four if it's really nice with a heatsink, which is a big difference compared to $30+.
Users are more then willing to pay more for larger VRMs, fancy heatsinks, mroe RGB, different feature sets, ece. There'd likely be plenty that would be willing to shell out another $30-40 for 10GB instead of 1 or 2.5, if OEMs didnt lock them behind $400+ paywalls. The asus and gigabyte boards you listed were rediculously expensive, and IIRC the asus maximus with 10Gb didnt even get an american release.

the gigabyte board was $550 at launch: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...us-xtreme-intel-motherboard-review/index.html

Today they all have 2.5 Gb, even above the $400 asking price. That is rediculous. The reason I bring up the taichi ultimate is that it was only $300, a much saner price for 10Gb.
You clearly are only looking at things from your point of view, without understanding the bigger picture.
But I guess none of this matters to you right? You'll make a board and eat the cost difference, right?
You have a serious projection problem, and should seek help.
 
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Wow. Stop taking things so personally chief. Take a chill pill.

This is a shocking revelation, but have you considered that, if there was an option to purchase a board with 10Gb ethernet, some people might actually pay for it? I never would have guessed, but given we live in a world where enthusiasts are willing to pay more for larger VRMs, RGB, or other features, they may be willing to pay for 10Gb as well, and as boards like the taichi ultimates proved, space and thermal issues can not only be solved easily, but are not really all that noticeable in terms of board design. And again, apple can manage the additional heat output and size in a mac mini, shoudlnt be that hard to manage on a ATX motherboard, right? Unless apple has some magic space shrinking magic.


Users are more then willing to pay more for larger VRMs, fancy heatsinks, mroe RGB, different feature sets, ece. There'd likely be plenty that would be willing to shell out another $30-40 for 10GB instead of 1 or 2.5, if OEMs didnt lock them behind $400+ paywalls. The asus and gigabyte boards you listed were rediculously expensive, and IIRC the asus maximus with 10Gb didnt even get an american release.

the gigabyte board was $550 at launch: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...us-xtreme-intel-motherboard-review/index.html

Today they all have 2.5 Gb, even above the $400 asking price. That is rediculous. The reason I bring up the taichi ultimate is that it was only $300, a much saner price for 10Gb.


You have a serious projection problem, and should seek help.
Not taking anything personally, but you really do come up with some odd arguments for things time and time again.

I never said people wouldn't buy it and there still are boards with 5 and 10Gbps as an option, but they are usually the high-end models, because it adds a significant hit to the board makers margins if they were to eat the cost difference.
You clearly didn't notice that all current 10Gbps use either four or eight lanes of PCIe, which is something of a design issue due to the limited amount of PCIe lanes some chipsets have.
Once we get a PCIe 4.0 x1 10Gbps controller, then this might change and I'm sure there's some work being done on bringing us that, as all of a sudden things get a lot simpler and we'll get a chip that uses fewer interface pins and hopefully also has lower thermals. However, until that day, we're a bit limited, which you don't seem to comprehend.
The issue isn't really about the production node, although going to something better than 28nm, which is what Intel's 10Gbps parts are currently made at, would most likely improve thermals by a fair bit as well.

Have you even seen the motherboard in the M1 Mac Mini? Half of that case is empty inside, so there's plenty of room to squeeze something else in there.

You are aware why we need improved power regulation on motherboards these days, right? It has something to do with the CPUs using a lot more power than the manufacturers puts on the tin. So skimping out on the power regulation means your CPU might throttle, instead of boost. I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Most people simply do not use wired networking. Sorry, but it's the truth and you need to realise that. It's why we have Wi-Fi routers that claim Gigabit+++ speeds these days, yet still only have a Gigabit port to connect to your service provider. Those of use that use wired networking are a minority, despite its inherent advantages. Wired networking is mainly for businesses and they've had much faster speeds than 10Gbps for a very long time.

As pointed out above, the board makers want their margin, so if they add a $30 chip onto a board, you're going to be paying $60-70 by the time you purchase that board in retail, as there are a lot of middlemen that wants their cut too. I guess you've never worked in a company that produces retail products, have you?

I have no projection problems buddy. You on the other hand are making a bunch of flawed claims and then accuse others of things, when you don't even understand the first thing about what's involved in bringing a product to market or the limitations of current hardware. You are on the other hand free to start your own motherboard maker to compete with the companies out there to bring 10Gbps to everyone for free.
 
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And yet you can get one in a $900 mac mini. Hmmmmm.....Power and heat are clearly not an issue anymore if you can fit one in a tiny PC like this.

Moreover we've had good motherboards with 10Gb LAN before. The likes of the taichi ultimate offered a 10Gb LAN and two 1Gb LANs for $300, yet despite this we never saw the competition do that. Even now we only see 2.5Gb LAN, and not on all boards, despite the rounding error in costs for the improvement over 1Gb LAN. Oh but we'll see the expensive wifi 6 chip put on board instead with 50 billion RGBs.

Why motherboard makers will sell totally useless overbuilt VRMs and extensive heatsink designs but NOT 10Gb LAN is beyond me.
Majority of people "wants" better VRMs, and I put it in quotes because overclocking has little yield nowadays and people doesn't (which is reasonable for the masses) research what board's VRM goes well with the CPU of their choice. Building your own computer would already mean you have understanding of how to tailor cost and level of experience you'll get, and most people choose phases over 10g, or is not aware of 10g in the first place.
For most part, you CAN choose a board with 10g with decent VRM over a 2.5g with overbuilt VRM, both cost far above boards with 2.5g+decent VRM.
You can't upgrade VRM's later down the track but can totally use add-in cards to get better net controller cards than chips offered onboard.

WiFi 6 is not as expensive as 10g, they are expensive if you want to choose a board w/ it, Intel made tons of AX200's. on Taobao they go for 130yuan, thats with M.2 to pcie board, antenna's and 2 brackets. They probably cost 10$/ea for board manufacturers to order w/ intel chipset, where as new, rj45 10g card from reputable brand like intel go for 500yuan+, or you can cheaper for 10g cards taken from used server's and OEM machines. the chip itself is definitely cheaper BUT boardmakers likely also do more work on 10g boards, i.e. more pcb layers and tracing.
Consider a situation where one user bought a 10g board, connect it to another computer with 10g board/controller, and transfer only in large sequential r/w. thats not exactly everybody. you gotta wire up 1g to the router unless its an offline machine, and wire 10g to another computer, which best be close to the computer you're connecting from. Before considering OS, file sharing protocol (fuck windows), or a commercial NAS's OS, file system, drivers, the chip still runs hotter (controller chips are small, and you really would want a fan for pushing 1.25G sequential all the time)
if you think the current motherboards have extensive heatsink design... I'm assuming something like Aorus extreme, with actual finstacks. those boards are way overkill to 12, with price tag to match. Every other boards get the ye olde """fin"""stack practically plastic VRM cucker. Doesn't cost pocket change to engrave a logo or anodise it a rainbow.

coming back to "tailor experience on budget", 10g $, vrm's are not really that overbuilt for most boards, heatsink is more like a heatblocker showcase for half the board manufacturers. Apple can literally charge iShit for 1000$ so cost is not even a factor, their environment so locked down that the user probably is trying to only communicate with another 10g mac. and by the way the 10g on mac cost money and is a upgrade option. the aorus master with 10g cost 600 aud in my country. thats a 400$ (at least) motherboard before 10g.
so yea I'm not even sure if you use 10g, lest you somehow have a 10g fibre to home, from what you just said.

Great addition.

They need to finalize driver support for eGPUs via TB.
in a world where Laptop's and mini Desktops have M.2 slot on list of I/Os, and a barrel plug alongside the M.2 for PCIE power, and a Barrel plug on the GPU itself...
a guy can only ~~dream~~ despair.

I thought apple had the best TB support btw? I mean, unless M1 marks a departure of hardware compatibility (and I certainly think it is impossible to retain that compatibility perfectly), and you certainly would not get a M1 machine for gaming?
 
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10GBase-T is better for most users, especially those who have a home 10gig network like myself. You cannot run DACs through your walls, dealing with fiber is a hassle compared to CAT6a, CAT6a is cheap, and you don't need to buy expensive transceivers, plus you can use all your 1gig devices without problem.... Though, I am surprised Apple didn't use SFP+ just to sell customers expensive, Apple branded transceivers for $500
I don’t think Apple is interested in bleeding edge anymore, unless it’s their own knife. They just expect most consumers to use WiFi and buy accessories.
That doesn't look like a computer though, but rather a server, so maybe a bit moot point?
I don’t know why this is my third response to this — you said Apple never used SFP, I said they did, you asked if it was part of the device, I pointed it out it was and an add-on for their computers, now you’re asking if a RAID device is a computer — I don’t know what your point is here but to engage in semantics to make your argument moot lol.
I was hoping for 40Gbps Thunderbolt networking by Apple, since they support it. All you need is some $900 fibre based Thunderbolt cables to run through your home.


Sadly the controllers are still too big, run too hot and cost too much for that to happen.
But if you have a design breakthrough that will fix those issues, please let us know.
I’d wait on the Mac Pro for something like this, but even then not until thunderbolt switches become common. The Mac mini is basically an engineering sample — it’s a proof of concept, not a finished product (as are all of these m1 devices IMO).
 
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I don’t know why this is my third response to this — you said Apple never used SFP, I said they did, you asked if it was part of the device, I pointed it out it was and an add-on for their computers, now you’re asking if a RAID device is a computer — I don’t know what your point is here but to engage in semantics to make your argument moot lol.
Reading comprehension? Big difference between a native interface and an add-in card. I said A, you answered J. Then I said A again and your answered Q and here we are.

I'd wait on the Mac Pro for something like this, but even then not until thunderbolt switches become common. The Mac mini is basically an engineering sample — it’s a proof of concept, not a finished product (as are all of these m1 devices IMO).
No need for switches, Thunderbolt does daisy chaining. Apple has supported networking over Thunderbolt for quite a few years already, they just don't make any noise about it.

As for the M1, I agree.
 
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Reading comprehension? Big difference between a native interface and an add-in card. I said A, you answered J. Then I said A again and your answered Q and here we are.
I dunno — you claim you’re not a forum warrior who takes things personally but here we are with you shifting goal posts and insulting my reading comprehension lol :shrug:
Rj45, Apple has never done SFP of any kind as a native interface.
First goal post: sfp of any kind as an interface
I think they did briefly with Xserve back in the G5 days


Evidence of a device with integrated SFP and a computer with an add-in card
Is that a native port? As in, built into the device?
I never said they never supported SFP.
It is a native port built into the device, as shown in last post.
Yeah IIRC it was built into their Xserve RAID device (TIL that it was compatible with Windows :eek:) but I think you needed to buy the add-in card for compatibility with Xserve

Further evidence of the fact.
That doesn't look like a computer though, but rather a server, so maybe a bit moot point?
A server is a computer, a RAID device is a device/peripheral — what do you want from me lol? Your “point” (Apple never had SFP built-in to a device) was made moot several posts ago...

Aside, I don’t remember if Apple sold xserves (computers) with their SFP card included (bundled not an add-on) back then (I think they did but I dunno) but, again, that wasn’t your claim... I’m just providing some historical background about Apple and SFP lol
 
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I dunno — you claim you’re not a forum warrior who takes things personally but here we are with you shifting goal posts and insulting my reading comprehension lol :shrug:

First goal post: sfp of any kind as an interface

Evidence of a device with integrated SFP and a computer with an add-in card

It is a native port built into the device, as shown in last post.

Further evidence of the fact.

A server is a computer, a RAID device is a device/peripheral — what do you want from me lol? Your “point” (Apple never had SFP built-in to a device) was made moot several posts ago...

Aside, I don’t remember if Apple sold xserves (computers) with their SFP card included (bundled not an add-on) back then (I think they did but I dunno) but, again, that wasn’t your claim... I’m just providing some historical background about Apple and SFP lol

I’ll send a NFT of my foreskin later for your trophy board if that helps :love:
Insulting? I was simply pointing out that you seemed to have misread what I posted, as your answers didn't really make sense.

First goal post missed, as a NATIVE interface. You post a link to an add-in card for a server/storage device. That is not a native interface, there's a big difference between something that's on the motherboard as a standard, native feature and something that's an add-in card or an external dongle or what not.
If you chose to see it otherwise, then that's your prerogative, but it's not correct, at least not in this context.

As for computer vs. server, do you use a rackmount server on your desk as your PC? Maybe you do, but then you're one of maybe three people in the world that does. Most people don't.

And that was seriously uncalled for.
 
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Yeah I am sorry that you don’t understand that selling a RAID device with SFP built-in meets your criteria of “SFP of any kind as a native interface,” maybe you’re just misreading or meant something else but forgot to clarify.

Actually SFP was the only way you could access the device — the ethernet ports were for management only. Connect the Xserve raid through SFP to an Xserve and then route to your team’s PCs. Alternatively, connect the SFP directly to your PC to access the RAID, as thousands of AV professionals (Apple’s pro market) and others who have racks connected to their laptops and desktops do as part of their daily workflow.

“SFP of any kind as a native interface” -> computer -> PC = shifting goal posts

Have a good one :shrug:
 
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Majority of people "wants" better VRMs, and I put it in quotes because overclocking has little yield nowadays and people doesn't (which is reasonable for the masses) research what board's VRM goes well with the CPU of their choice. Building your own computer would already mean you have understanding of how to tailor cost and level of experience you'll get, and most people choose phases over 10g, or is not aware of 10g in the first place.
For most part, you CAN choose a board with 10g with decent VRM over a 2.5g with overbuilt VRM, both cost far above boards with 2.5g+decent VRM.
You can't upgrade VRM's later down the track but can totally use add-in cards to get better net controller cards than chips offered onboard.

WiFi 6 is not as expensive as 10g, they are expensive if you want to choose a board w/ it, Intel made tons of AX200's. on Taobao they go for 130yuan, thats with M.2 to pcie board, antenna's and 2 brackets. They probably cost 10$/ea for board manufacturers to order w/ intel chipset, where as new, rj45 10g card from reputable brand like intel go for 500yuan+, or you can cheaper for 10g cards taken from used server's and OEM machines. the chip itself is definitely cheaper BUT boardmakers likely also do more work on 10g boards, i.e. more pcb layers and tracing.
Consider a situation where one user bought a 10g board, connect it to another computer with 10g board/controller, and transfer only in large sequential r/w. thats not exactly everybody. you gotta wire up 1g to the router unless its an offline machine, and wire 10g to another computer, which best be close to the computer you're connecting from. Before considering OS, file sharing protocol (fuck windows), or a commercial NAS's OS, file system, drivers, the chip still runs hotter (controller chips are small, and you really would want a fan for pushing 1.25G sequential all the time)
if you think the current motherboards have extensive heatsink design... I'm assuming something like Aorus extreme, with actual finstacks. those boards are way overkill to 12, with price tag to match. Every other boards get the ye olde """fin"""stack practically plastic VRM cucker. Doesn't cost pocket change to engrave a logo or anodise it a rainbow.

coming back to "tailor experience on budget", 10g $, vrm's are not really that overbuilt for most boards, heatsink is more like a heatblocker showcase for half the board manufacturers. Apple can literally charge iShit for 1000$ so cost is not even a factor, their environment so locked down that the user probably is trying to only communicate with another 10g mac. and by the way the 10g on mac cost money and is a upgrade option. the aorus master with 10g cost 600 aud in my country. thats a 400$ (at least) motherboard before 10g.
so yea I'm not even sure if you use 10g, lest you somehow have a 10g fibre to home, from what you just said.


in a world where Laptop's and mini Desktops have M.2 slot on list of I/Os, and a barrel plug alongside the M.2 for PCIE power, and a Barrel plug on the GPU itself...
a guy can only ~~dream~~ despair.

I thought apple had the best TB support btw? I mean, unless M1 marks a departure of hardware compatibility (and I certainly think it is impossible to retain that compatibility perfectly), and you certainly would not get a M1 machine for gaming?

The processing power is there. The graphics power is not with exception of casual games.

The M1 computers recognize the eGPU from a hardware standpoint, they just don't have drivers in place. It may not matter much longer for consumers with good bandwidth since gaming will be going cloud based.
 
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Mainstream 10 GbE @ PCs pleaaase.

Like someone in another comments section, that I was reading, mentioned, Apple was one of the first to use Gigabit Ethernet as a standard in their machines, which dramatically brought down the price and shortly thereafter every cheap Windows PC had it. We might see something similar here or at least I'm hoping.
 
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Yeah I am sorry that you don’t understand that selling a RAID device with SFP built-in meets your criteria of “SFP of any kind as a native interface,” maybe you’re just misreading or meant something else but forgot to clarify.

Actually SFP was the only way you could access the device — the ethernet ports were for management only. Connect the Xserve raid through SFP to an Xserve and then route to your team’s PCs. Alternatively, connect the SFP directly to your PC to access the RAID, as thousands of AV professionals (Apple’s pro market) and others who have racks connected to their laptops and desktops do as part of their daily workflow.

“SFP of any kind as a native interface” -> computer -> PC = shifting goal posts

Have a good one :shrug:
Dude, you need to look up the meaning of the word native. It doesn't mean what you seen to think it means.

Like someone in another comments section, that I was reading, mentioned, Apple was one of the first to use Gigabit Ethernet as a standard in their machines, which dramatically brought down the price and shortly thereafter every cheap Windows PC had it. We might see something similar here or at least I'm hoping.
Apple has offered 10Gbps Ethernet for quite some time, but it's always been an optional upgrade due to the additional cost. It's unlikely to make any difference this time around.
What we need are PCIe 4.0 x1 controllers, as that's more likely to bring down the cost and increase wider usage, even though I doubt we'll see it go mainstream any time soon.
 
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