Are digital stores bad for launching games at full price?

[Shihab]

Hmmm out of curiosity I wonder how a $59.99 game is half your monthly salary yet you have a pretty nice PC with a GTX 1080 and i7? what do games cost out there? What am I missing? Serious question by the way and I am 100% not trying to insult you.

Nah, no problem. I get what this can be confusing.

Between the time I bought my 1080 and today (roughly 17 months) the LCU/USD conversion rate has tripled.
$60 in late 2017 would get you ~1600LCU, the salary of a junior, civil engineer iirc. Today it'd get you 4380~5100, and salaries haven't grown since 2017. For reference: Monthly minimum wage's fixed since 2013 at 425 LCU, around US$5~6, and since we have no regional pricing for games, you'll have to pay the entire $60-equiavalent, 10 times the minimum wage (not counting import costs and other overheads). Welcome to the third least developed world!
When I got my i7 (circa 2014), that $60 would get you around 500 LCUs. You can probably see from my presepective the diminishing value of upgrading to anything intel produced since then.

Do note that I'm using "black market" rates here (around 2x the official ones these days) which is practically the only way to get your hands on foreign currency (and lately even local ones No, I'm not joking).

That plus the fact that people in my line of work sometimes get a part in some foreign-funded projects that pay in foreign currencies. Happens rarely and doesn't pay that much, but enough for a few toys and some steam wallet funds to burn around come sales' season.

 

[kurosagi01]

If it's a game I really want to play from day 1 then i'll either try find it slightly cheaper else where or i'll pay the full price,I pre-ordered RE2 remake+DMC5 at full price as I really wanted to play them and pre-ordered Sekiro at £40 from CDkeys, otherwise i'll be waiting for sale for most games like i'm waiting for Metro Exodus to drop in price at the moment.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

At this stage when everything seems to be adopting this 'live service' monica. One has to ask if they really need to charge $60-80 for entry into the game and even more so since games as a service also means that games will be released in a half finished state and will be worked on over the next 2years+ before its near its completion and the devs can step back and go work on other things like expansions or small tweaks for the game or other games.

Since every publisher seems adamant about exploiting their customers and milking them like cows for every last penny they have If the main publishers decided to soften the blow by kicking down the barrier to entry to half or less than half of the current price then im sure customers wont be so quickly to complain.

For instance, Warframe... Its FREE but you can support the dev/publisher by buying stuff for real money from their ingame shop. Nobody is forcing you to buy their shit but the door is open if you wanted to show some appreciation - This is how it should be when it comes to games as a service.

But the problem we have are games that are in no way close to being finished being released to the public as 'acceptable' and charged the full price of a full game while there are fan boys who are throwing their life savings and mothers at the publisher and defending them to the death when the community starts to ask questions about certain shitty design aspects they come across IN A HALF FINISHED GAME. People defended Fallout76.... People defended Anthem. People even defended nomanssky. Like i cant even begin to understand the mentality and blind ignorance of some of the community.

We are expected to pay $60-80 for a FINISHED PRODUCT. The same people would be happy walking into a car dealership, putting down the full amount of cash on a car and walking out the door with just a set of wheels and a wingmirror because the salesman at the dealership told them their car wasnt 100% built yet.

How the hell does that not make sense to any of these people???

Sometimes i think the gaming community as a whole are fuckin terrible and thats ignoring all the members of said community who are just downright toxic and just go around being assholes and spreading hate across the internet and whatever games they play.

 

[Frick]

I don't think I've bought a non-digital game for around 5 years.
I might buy a couple games a year at full price but mostly I wait for a sale.

I've never bought a non digital computer game.

My biggest gripe is how often digital releases is more expensive than physical releases, even at launch. As for the question it depends entirely on the game, and what "full price" means. Paradox titles goes for €39.99, Ubisoft A etc games go for what, €69.99? €40 I can stomach, €70 is just ... no.

I cannot partake in this poll because I buy games at full price all the time, I have money but I am not rich. I don't care about sales or saving $5 or $10. If a game releases that I want I just buy it.

I also work 5 days a week and have kids to raise and property to take care of and a wife, dogs, over 100 koi (two ponds) and still have time to game.

Your poll statement makes me look like a douche though lol.

It isn't $5-10 though, it can be $20-40 depending on the game. Multiply by ten and if you were me you'd saved a months rent.

 

[kapone32]

If Green Man Gaming and Humble Store give you discounts on pre orders of AAA games why would you pay full price on a platform like Steam. I really only buy Total War and Just Cause games brand new. The only game that I am willing to pay full price for regardless of discounts is Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Frick]

But the problem we have are games that are in no way close to being finished being released to the public as 'acceptable' and charged the full price of a full game while there are fan boys who are throwing their life savings and mothers at the publisher and defending them to the death when the community starts to ask questions about certain shitty design aspects they come across IN A HALF FINISHED GAME. People defended Fallout76.... People defended Anthem. People even defended nomanssky. Like i cant even begin to understand the mentality and blind ignorance of some of the community.

We are expected to pay $60-80 for a FINISHED PRODUCT. The same people would be happy walking into a car dealership, putting down the full amount of cash on a car and walking out the door with just a set of wheels and a wingmirror because the salesman at the dealership told them their car wasnt 100% built yet.

How the hell does that not make sense to any of these people???

Sometimes i think the gaming community as a whole are fuckin terrible and thats ignoring all the members of said community who are just downright toxic and just go around being assholes and spreading hate across the internet and whatever games they play.

Guess why I don't have any kind of internet access in my home? I miss 99.99999% of the bs that happens, and it's joyeous.

Anyway, as for the "unfinished product" argument: when is a game done? Remember the good old days when games were buggy as toads and you had to wait until the magazine you bought had a patch on the CD they gave you? I do, and I prefer day one patches. And then we have the people with ridiculous expectations, which combined with hyping makes for dissapointment for sure. Some of that lies on the devs/publishers, but I've seen people complain that games I enjoy quite a lot is unfinished garbage, because they can't do X. I would hate being a game dev today, people have sky high demands of games and they assume by yelling (or writing in caps and using swear words) the dev will change the course of the entire game because they have not understood that the game is supposed to be X, not Y as that gamer assumed based on a tweet on a different subject.

But yeah, we should demand more from devs, especially the big ones. They have the resources to make non-bewildering decisions (especially when it comes to writing), but they don't. OTOH "gamers" as seen as a whole (which to be truthful is hard because how do you define a "gamer"?) have a tendency to be bewilderingly entitled.

I'm not defending any of the games on your list btw as I haven't played them, it's more a discussion of it in general. I'm all for thrashing Bioware and Bethsoft though.

Also BTW, the sandbox, MMO-but-offline style many games has means almost by definition that they will either never be finished or be released in a nunfinished state. They have to add stuff later on. They could still tell a coherent story, but theydon't because no one seems to do writing anymore. The game isn't broken, use your imagination! Super Mario is an RPG, you roleplay a plumber fighting goombas and yurtles! I have profurdedly generated your universe, you can do anything*!

*Defined as shooting at, sleeping with after a Press X to give gift scene, and turning brooms and dog drool into manhole covers (AKA crafting).

 

[cucker tarlson]

Some games are worth every cent of that $60,some are bad even if sold at half price.It's quality,not quantity.I'd prefer to play a good $60 game than get three $20 ones that are mediocre.
That said,I usually get my list and whatever from the list goes on on sale I buy,regardless if I'm gonna play it now or later.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Guess why I don't have any kind of internet access in my home? I miss 99.99999% of the bs that happens, and it's joyeous.

Anyway, as for the "unfinished product" argument: when is a game done? Remember the good old days when games were buggy as toads and you had to wait until the magazine you bought had a patch on the CD they gave you? I do, and I prefer day one patches. And then we have the people with ridiculous expectations, which combined with hyping makes for dissapointment for sure. Some of that lies on the devs/publishers, but I've seen people complain that games I enjoy quite a lot is unfinished garbage, because they can't do X. I would hate being a game dev today, people have sky high demands of games and they assume by yelling (or writing in caps and using swear words) the dev will change the course of the entire game because they have not understood that the game is supposed to be X, not Y as that gamer assumed based on a tweet on a different subject.

But yeah, we should demand more from devs, especially the big ones. They have the resources to make non-bewildering decisions (especially when it comes to writing), but they don't. OTOH "gamers" as seen as a whole (which to be truthful is hard because how do you define a "gamer"?) have a tendency to be bewilderingly entitled.

I'm not defending any of the games on your list btw as I haven't played them, it's more a discussion of it in general. I'm all for thrashing Bioware and Bethsoft though.

Also BTW, the sandbox, MMO-but-offline style many games has means almost by definition that they will either never be finished or be released in a nunfinished state. They have to add stuff later on. They could still tell a coherent story, but theydon't because no one seems to do writing anymore. The game isn't broken, use your imagination! Super Mario is an RPG, you roleplay a plumber fighting goombas and yurtles! I have profurdedly generated your universe, you can do anything*!

*Defined as shooting at, sleeping with after a Press X to give gift scene, and turning brooms and dog drool into manhole covers (AKA crafting).

what is classed as 'done' comes in many forms For example, Anthem... That game isnt done. An entire chunk of the game is missing. BF:V wasnt 'done' until Firestorm had been released.

I dont mind game being a little buggy when they are released, but Id like it to play at least smoothly without too much headache. Back in the days when patches were released on CDs with magazines - those days were like the 'golden era' in PC game development. Games would need to be pretty much done before the game went to press so the patches on the CDs were just optimizations or bug fixes.

It was a different era, a different age. The reason behind making games were entirely different and there were a lot more dev studios and publishers around at the time and I think that really kept everyone on their feet and wanting to make the best game possible and not just one that would make them tonnes of money. If the game made them tonnes of money then that was a bonus for them but the main objective was to make games that people would enjoy playing.

Developers took pride in their work.... Im sure some of them still do and are really passionate about it but its been beaten into a robotic, monotonous, mundane task by abusive publishers who will probably sack them after the game is released anyway.

We should be demanding better - We DO demand better but the problem is the gaming community never moves as a single entity - that is why publishers have gotten away with what they have. Because when people call for boycotts to protest such behavior, only a handful of people actually stick to it while the rest of them give in to the pressure. Thats why no major publisher is scared when people call for boycotts.

Remember when somebody on reddit called for a boycott of Anthem after the loot drops were dialed back to keep them grinding? Not enough people boycotted the game to make a difference EA didnt even respond, it was business as usual.

The only time the community did seem to move as one was with the Battlefront 2 lootbox controversy. But EA being EA, they never learn or they'll find a way to dial it back a few notches to make it seem like they are listening and have heard the community but they still keep it at a level where they are still literally dragging a rusty jagged tetanus infected rake along the soft walls of your anus like they hoeing the dirt for a corn plantation.

 

[lexluthermiester]

There is but one problem with this poll, no option to say that you think full price is fine. While discounts and sales are great, I have no problem paying full price for things, especially when new. I was of those people who regularly paid $80-$90 for new SNES games back in the day and they were worth it. Devs need to get paid.

 

[64K]

There is but one problem with this poll, no option to say that you think full price is fine. While discounts and sales are great, I have no problem paying full price for things, especially when new. I was of those people who regularly paid $80-$90 for new SNES games back in the day and they were worth it. Devs need to get paid.

Those were different times though. Back then a game was finished, patched and polished before release. A lot of Developers release games these days that are badly in need patching and polishing and in some cases are completely broken. The end result is that the people who pay full price and buy a game on release get the worst possible gaming experience. Now I'm not blaming the Developers for the most part. It's generally the Publishers who rush the Developers to push a game out before it's ready.

As long as I have to wait for the game to finally be finished (patched and polished) well after release then I might as well wait a little while longer and pick it up for $15 on a Steam Sale.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Those were different times though. Back then a game was finished, patched and polished before release.

Excellent point!

 

[kapone32]

There is but one problem with this poll, no option to say that you think full price is fine. While discounts and sales are great, I have no problem paying full price for things, especially when new. I was of those people who regularly paid $80-$90 for new SNES games back in the day and they were worth it. Devs need to get paid.

Yes Devs need to get paid but in the current market all you get is a key to download the game data from whatever server it sits on. There is no longer the cost of the DVD, packaging or physical logistics. Let's take a AAA series like Battlefield. If 5 million users buy the game at launch for $69.99 that is $349,950000. If the console package is the same price how much is saved by going digital, that we do not see. Even when digital games are discounted the Devs still make a tidy profit. Not all of the devs are evil like EA (making record profits and shedding staff because one entry does not do as well as expected and then release Apex Legends) but there is lot's of evidence why we should not be paying the full sticker price for a digital copy of a physical game. Then you have to factor in the cost of downloading up to 100GB of data since we no longer seem to like DVD drives.

 

[Ebo]

I buy games when I want, and dosent care about price at all.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I've never bought a non digital computer game.

My biggest gripe is how often digital releases is more expensive than physical releases, even at launch. As for the question it depends entirely on the game, and what "full price" means. Paradox titles goes for €39.99, Ubisoft A etc games go for what, €69.99? €40 I can stomach, €70 is just ... no.


It isn't $5-10 though, it can be $20-40 depending on the game. Multiply by ten and if you were me you'd saved a months rent.

Oh I get it dude. I'm not saying you and others shouldn't try and save cash by waiting for a sale at all. I was just stating that this poll is lame because option 1 makes it seem to me like to select it I have to be rich and have a load of free time. I am neither. I make six figures a year but that doesn't make me rich by any stretch of the word...and I live in Southern California. I'm middle class.

The OP should have just stated for the first option:

Yes I buy all my games at full price when released because I want it now.


I could sign off on that. And for the record I buy games on sale all the time...mostly because I never heard of it and noticed steam placing it on sale so i buy it then, or there is a game Im interested in but not sure if it is worth the full price so I don't buy it at all until it goes on sale.

Truth is I'm an impatient mofo and if I want a game, been waiting for the game and it releases...I buy it. I don't wait for a sale. That's all.

 

[moproblems99]

Oh I get it dude. I'm not saying you and others shouldn't try and save cash by waiting for a sale at all. I was just stating that this poll is lame because option 1 makes it seem to me like to select it I have to be rich and have a load of free time. I am neither. I make six figures a year but that doesn't make me rich by any stretch of the word...and I live in Southern California. I'm middle class.

The OP should have just stated for the first option:

Yes I buy all my games at full price when released because I want it now.


I could sign off on that. And for the record I buy games on sale all the time...mostly because I never heard of it and noticed steam placing it on sale so i buy it then, or there is a game Im interested in but not sure if it is worth the full price so I don't buy it at all until it goes on sale.

Truth is I'm an impatient mofo and if I want a game, been waiting for the game and it releases...I buy it. I don't wait for a sale. That's all.

If you haven't figured out yet, most of the polls are written to stir the pot of shit.

 

[John Naylor]

Personally, I don't care about the delivery method, my only concern is:

a) If it's got DRM or I have to be logged in to play it (MMOs exce[ted o0f course), I will not buy it.
b) I don't much care if delivery method is DVD or digital as long as i can play it when I want and on whatever I want.

Steam was the downfall of PC gaming and one of the reasons that participation has sales have dropped. Each Xmas, I'd buy each kid 3 games and after they finished, they'd pass it on to their brothers. Steam later added the sharing option but was too little too late and that still requires having a Steam Account (not interested). My 2nd oldest bought Witcher 3 on GOG, after he as done, I played it ... I bough the expansion 3 pak, and after I finished, he played it.

 

[kapone32]

DVD Recorders in the age of renting PC games killed PC gaming Steam is an after effect of that phenomenon. Unfortunately Steam has some of the best games on PC.

 

[erocker]

Those were different times though. Back then a game was finished, patched and polished before release. A lot of Developers release games these days that are badly in need patching and polishing and in some cases are completely broken. The end result is that the people who pay full price and buy a game on release get the worst possible gaming experience. Now I'm not blaming the Developers for the most part. It's generally the Publishers who rush the Developers to push a game out before it's ready.

As long as I have to wait for the game to finally be finished (patched and polished) well after release then I might as well wait a little while longer and pick it up for $15 on a Steam Sale.

You don't remember having to get cd roms or floppy disks mailed to you for patches? I was so happy getting internet that was fast enough to actually download patches off servers. That being said, games definitely released less buggy back then. Games weren't as complex either.. and there was no Windows 10.

 

[moproblems99]

Unfortunately Steam has some of the best games on PC.

Well, Steam is about to not have some of the best games on PC.

 

[WhiteNoise]

You don't remember having to get cd roms or floppy disks mailed to you for patches? I was so happy getting internet that was fast enough to actually download patches off servers. That being said, games definitely released less buggy back then. Games weren't as complex either.. and there was no Windows 10.

^Agreed. I have a collection of boxed games from back in the day and I remember bugs after release but like you stated; it was never as bad as now. Also we might not have had DLC but we sure as hell did have expansions which were also boxed and sold at a lower cost.

 

[AsRock]

Considering games require dlc which tends to be payed for now, the game is not considered complete to me so really the games initial price at most should be 10 dollars since they require you to buy dlc...

Also screw gaming networks like PSN and XBL...

"COUGH" UBI, yeah i know there is many more but not been buying their game due to DLC's and a 1/2 price game ends up being a $60+ game witht he DLC's even year(s) after release.

Last few years in my eye's as been pitiful gaming wise.

And all this fminest\ SJW bullshit hitting movie's \ TV shows will effect game more over time , it's already effected some and it's only going to get worse in this political correct nonsense world we live in today which company's like Google MSN Facebook Disney push their brain washing crap.

But anyway, yes as eidirman said the price is $60 + DLC and most cases $60++ season pass crap.

 

[64K]

You don't remember having to get cd roms or floppy disks mailed to you for patches? I was so happy getting internet that was fast enough to actually download patches off servers. That being said, games definitely released less buggy back then. Games weren't as complex either.. and there was no Windows 10.

He was talking about the SNES days. I don't remember any Nintendo games getting patched. I don't know how they could have. I have no idea what was going on with PC games in the early to late 90s. I had no time for gaming during those years besides sometimes playing with my son on his SNES and later N64. Before that I had a C-64 and a game either worked or it didn't. Most worked fine.

 

[Kursah]

You don't remember having to get cd roms or floppy disks mailed to you for patches? I was so happy getting internet that was fast enough to actually download patches off servers. That being said, games definitely released less buggy back then. Games weren't as complex either.. and there was no Windows 10.

I was happier when I could download said patches over DSL so I didn't have to tie up a phone line with 28.8-56k baud modem that would take hours or days to download it.


I buy a few games at full price, more often indie titles I am very interested in like Void Destroyer 2 or Astrox Imperium. Those are both even in EA at this point, and I am pretty picky about what I support in EA anymore. I generally don't support EA for AAA titles and few indie titles that I spend a lot of time looking into.

There are other games I back at higher than full price, like Ashes of the Singularity (to be fair I get every DLC, Escalations and the latest Ashes tower defence title for free) and Elite: Dangerous (to be fair I get all expansions free here as well), though can't think of a game of either's caliber since then that I've backed or had interest in backing. Most often times I'm waiting for deals or waiting to see if the game's release issues are actually getting fixed. There's a little more to it than that for me, but watering it down that's essentially how I roll.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I was happier when I could download said patches over DSL so I didn't have to tie up a phone line with 28.8-56k baud modem that would take hours or days to download it.

Ah the late 90's and DSL!

 

[Shihab]

Games weren't as complex either.

+10!
A single AAA (and sometimes even those of lesser budget) games has more bits in it than all SNES games combined. What was a gamedev's worst nightmare back then, fitting enough spritesheets in a coupla MBs of ROM? I'll bet the poor fellow who's making sure every UV is neatly mapped in every nook and cranny of that +30Km^2 world map would trade all the terrabytes in the world to go back to those days....