Are VPN services need or a rip-off?

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

Is a VPN ever needed?

Why would I want a VPN?

 

[R0H1T]

Is a VPN ever needed?

Why would I want a VPN?

Probably, but it depends on what you want to do with it, with certain job profiles it can be a necessity ~ though in such cases tor can also be a good alternative, albeit a slow(er) one.

 

[dorsetknob]

Work from home yes probably required by your employer
accessing Geo locked Sites yes but probably illegal
Accessing illegal Content Yes lets not Discuss that

 

[StrayKAT]

VPN is not a ripoff. But any VPN service headquartered in the US (or the Five Eyes.. and then some) is a ripoff... It defeats the purpose, since the governments there don't care about your privacy. So you have to do some research where a particular VPN company is located.

 

[Kursah]

Depends on the need, I run several different types of VPN's for various uses. There's a lot of usage in the professional sector for VPN's. Be it site-to-site or road warrior, there are so many uses for VPN's that I use, design and work with on a daily basis for clients. Having an encrypted tunnel over the Internet between two sites or devices can be critical, and needs to be done correctly. No PPTP! Use SSL where possible (IMHO). I love IPSEC and OVPN.

I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.

It again depends on the need and individual, most folks don't really need a VPN. Some folks might want or desire, or feel they want to hide or protect. But with these consumer service VPN's, your data is encrypted to their server where you connect...which is located in a region/country/city. Your public IP is broadcast as being from that location rather than your home. Some folks use it for location purpose, but services have caught on to most of these VPN services and block them. Keep in mind that the traffic that goes beyond their server is not encrypted unless the session with the service or site is encrypted already.

Another thing to keep in mind is that VPN tunnels require processing overhead to encrypt and decrypt the traffic that traverses that part of the network. A lotta folks turn down encryption levels to increase bandwidth/performance and decrease CPU load. This is counterproductive to what a VPN offers though, the point is to protect and encrypt data. Running lower levels of encryption or weaker types of VPN services (looking at you PPTP), you might as well run without a VPN IMHO because there's enough data that is either being handed off in plaintext, or is a low enough level of encryption that if someone wanted it, the amount of work to get it wouldn't be very challenging in this day and age, you're paying and using something that you're not taking advantage of.

I use PIA still every once in a while, and I cranked up the encryption. Yes my bandwidth isn't 100% what my ISP is rated at, yes my CPU usage goes up, yes my level of encryption is worth it to me when I do use that service. Same with VPN tunnels I redesign or fix, I see so many setup with baseline configs, or low-levels of encryption, drives me crazy.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

Depends on the need, I run several different types of VPN's for various uses. There's a lot of usage in the professional sector for VPN's. Be it site-to-site or road warrior, there are so many uses for VPN's that I use, design and work with on a daily basis for clients. Having an encrypted tunnel over the Internet between two sites or devices can be critical, and needs to be done correctly. No PPTP! Use SSL where possible (IMHO). I love IPSEC and OVPN.

I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.

It again depends on the need and individual, most folks don't really need a VPN. Some folks might want or desire, or feel they want to hide or protect. But with these consumer service VPN's, your data is encrypted to their server where you connect...which is located in a region/country/city. Your public IP is broadcast as being from that location rather than your home. Some folks use it for location purpose, but services have caught on to most of these VPN services and block them. Keep in mind that the traffic that goes beyond their server is not encrypted unless the session with the service or site is encrypted already.

Another thing to keep in mind is that VPN tunnels require processing overhead to encrypt and decrypt the traffic that traverses that part of the network. A lotta folks turn down encryption levels to increase bandwidth/performance and decrease CPU load. This is counterproductive to what a VPN offers though, the point is to protect and encrypt data. Running lower levels of encryption or weaker types of VPN services (looking at you PPTP), you might as well run without a VPN IMHO because there's enough data that is either being handed off in plaintext, or is a low enough level of encryption that if someone wanted it, the amount of work to get it wouldn't be very challenging in this day and age, you're paying and using something that you're not taking advantage of.

I use PIA still every once in a while, and I cranked up the encryption. Yes my bandwidth isn't 100% what my ISP is rated at, yes my CPU usage goes up, yes my level of encryption is worth it to me when I do use that service. Same with VPN tunnels I redesign or fix, I see so many setup with baseline configs, or low-levels of encryption, drives me crazy.

I mean it would only be about security and privacy for me. I know that a VPN is the be-all, end-all of privacy, but I am sure it would help.

 

[Kursah]

I mean it would only be about security and privacy for me. I know that a VPN is the be-all, end-all of privacy, but I am sure it would help.

I guess it depends on what you feel you will be securing or keeping private versus what actually is. That could take this wayyyyy off topic though, so I won't go there at this junction.

You're right VPN's aren't the end-all, and depending on how they're used may not even help. But when used right, and hosted by the right service provider can be pretty damn solid. For the right situations, it is absolutely a good fit!

 

[Easy Rhino]

Is a VPN ever needed?

If you use public wifi then yes. If you work remotely then yes. If you care about privacy then yes.

 

[xorbe]

VPN + DNS that is not your internet provider (especially if you have a media company ie at&t comcast verizon etc).

 

[Bill_Bright]

VPN is not a ripoff. But any VPN service headquartered in the US (or the Five Eyes.. and then some) is a ripoff... It defeats the purpose, since the governments there don't care about your privacy. So you have to do some research where a particular VPN company is located.

What a bunch of malarkey.

Once again you post a silly blanket statement. And of course, like all blanket statements, they are wrong. And your biased filled one is particularly wrong.

Are VPNs a ripoff? No. See dorsetknob's succinct, illustrative examples.

 

[StrayKAT]

What a bunch of malarkey.

Once again you post a silly blanket statement. And of course, like all blanket statements, they are wrong. And your biased filled one is particularly wrong.

Are VPNs a ripoff? No. See dorsetknob's succinct, illustrative examples.

What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data. And all major ISP and storage providers have agreements with these governments to hand these things over. Be it Google, AT&T, etc. It doesn't make much for a warrant, especially with the bogeyman of Terrorism.

Much more difficult to force someone's hands in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland or Romania. You're better off getting a VPN service headquartered there. No one discussing this subject has EVER disputed this... except you.

 

[Solaris17]

Lets have the following posts rely on facts to support our ideas instead of disputing individuals intellect

 

[sepheronx]

What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data. And all major ISP and storage providers have agreements with these governments to hand these things over. Be it Google, AT&T, etc. It doesn't make much for a warrant, especially with the bogeyman of Terrorism.

Much more difficult to force someone's hands in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland or Romania. You're better off getting a VPN service headquartered there. No one discussing this subject has EVER disputed this... except you.

Shhh

Maybe he works for the government. Oh sh"* look out behind you!

 

[StrayKAT]

It was Dick Cheney himself that said "We need to go to the dark side." I mean, he was completely unapologetic. Bill Binney's (NSA whistleblower) nickname for him is Darth Cheney. Then Noble Peace Prize Drone Boy didn't do much better than him afterwards. If he really cared, he would have rolled it back. But like they say, power corrupts.

So I'm a critic of both sides. I wouldn't call that biased.

VPN services are one of the strange instances where if a company looks extremely shady, and you can't find much personal info, you're probably better off using them. lol

 

[Bill_Bright]

What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data.

Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want everyone to believe, the US government and our allies are NOT sitting around and listening to everyone's conversations, reading all their texts, or watching all their Internet activities. They just don't have the time, resources or desire to waste their time (and our tax money) in that way.

IF by chance or choice they stumble upon your connection, they are NOT going to sit around and monitor everything you do, UNLESS you are doing something, or planning something illegal!

Why? Because there are too many other big fish out there who are conducting illegal activities who actually want to hurt us. And our governments know if they miss advanced warnings, those same tin-foil hat wearers, and other conspiracy theorists will be relentless in flapping their lips with criticisms against those government agencies.

IF the NSA is watching you, it is NOT because your VPN is a "ripoff" as StrayKAT claims (since he claims "all" in the US are ). It it because you are doing, or planning something illegal.

And contrary to the claim, it is not easy for the governments in any of those countries to seize private citizens' equipment. They need a court order which requires substantial evidence of wrong doing.

Of course we need to go to the dark side - to catch the bad guys! Because that's where they lurk about. Freedom is not free!

Yeah, it sure would be horrible is the FBI told Scotland Yard a terrorist was about to blow up Piccadilly Circus.

This is NOT helping the OP. Let's get back on track.

 

[StrayKAT]

Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want everyone to believe, the US government and our allies are NOT sitting around and listening to everyone's conversations, reading all their texts, or watching all their Internet activities. They just don't have the time, resources or desire to waste their time (and our tax money) in that way.

This isn't tinfoil hats saying it. It's whistleblowers. And Bill Binney was one of the ones largely responsible for designing the systems himself. But when Cheney came in, they simplified it and used it for bulk data gathering.. and turned it on American citizens.. along with getting private companies to comply.

Just to mention.. I'm not anti-American. I like America, but only when it follows it's actual Constitution. 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

It's no longer about "probable cause". It's collected by default.

 

[dorsetknob]

Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want

The lizard Alien masters now get their Agents to Spray the Above with Aerosol Gallium
Seriously
if you use a VPN you need end to endpoint Encription and a Powerfull PC with a Fast Connection

 

[StrayKAT]

^ Not a "lizard man". Just a simple patriot.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

This isn't tinfoil hats saying it. It's whistleblowers. And Bill Binney was one of the ones largely responsible for designing the systems himself. But when Cheney came in, they simplified it and used it for bulk data gathering.. and turned it on American citizens.. along with getting private companies to comply.

Just to mention.. I'm not anti-American. I like America, but only when it follows it's actual Constitution. 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

It's not longer about "probable cause" any longer. It's collected by default.

I tend to agree with you- I am totally against the Patriot Act, especially when it violates the privacy of its citizens. Countries like Germany and Sweden have extremely strict privacy laws.

The lizard Alien masters now get their Agents to Spray the Above with Aerosol Gallium
Seriously
if you use a VPN you need end to endpoint Encription and a Powerfull PC with a Fast Connection

Well, I have a very powerful pc with great connection- still on the fence about the whole VPN thing though. I don't do anything illegal, but I do feel like having a VPN service like NordVPN for example would give me some peace of mind.

 

[Solaris17]

Is a VPN ever needed?

Why would I want a VPN?

I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.

I would like to ask again that we stick to the OPs original questions inline, Kursah had some great points as an example. I do not see a need to derail into mentioning aliens or tinfoil hats or the merits of state governments. If OP and the rest of you for example are worried about the kind of data collected. (which might for the sake of argument be collected by request of a govt) I strongly suggest you have a constructive conversation regarding individual VPN company data collection policies. If you happen to know them.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

VPS are worth it...regardless of intent. Encrypting your data is very important. Being anonymous and secure on the internet is a good thing. I also don't fully agree with you need a powerful PC. The worst case I have seen is about a 15% overhead for encrypt/decrypt.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

VPS are worth it...regardless of intent. Encrypting your data is very important. Being anonymous and secure on the internet is a good thing

Would you recommend a particular service?

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Would you recommend a particular service?

NordVPN, CyberGhost, ExpressVPN - Most of these companies allow IPs from Countries other than America. Like Germany, Russia, China and more. And also allow multiple hops like TOR browser. However adding additional hops will degrade throughput.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Work from home yes probably required by your employer
accessing Geo locked Sites yes but probably illegal
Accessing illegal Content Yes lets not Discuss that

^This right here^
Geo locked sites...
I enjoy Canada's Space channel which is the USA's SyFy channel...
Also I can get YouTube TV in my service area.... They literally end service in my area at my next door neighbors house.

 

[StrayKAT]

I would like to ask again that we stick to the OPs original questions inline, Kursah had some great points as an example. I do not see a need to derail into mentioning aliens or tinfoil hats or the merits of state governments. If OP and the rest of you for example are worried about the kind of data collected. (which might for the sake of argument be collected by request of a govt) I strongly suggest you have a constructive conversation regarding individual VPN company data collection policies. If you happen to know them.

Cool. I have nothing else to add. But people should watch that vid I posted anyways. You'll thank me later.