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Asus B550 - Huge difference in Auto SOC Voltage between BIOS versions. Is 1.36V Safe?

ragp13

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So after experiencing instability on a new system with DOCP enabled I decided to downgrade the BIOS from 0805 to 0608 for my Asus Prime B550M-A (wifi).

After that, I checked the SOC Voltage in both the Bios and HWINFO64 and the voltage difference when DOCP is enabled for both versions is HUGE!

With the newest Bios it's ~1.085V, with the older Bios it's 1.362V!

My understandig was that anything above 1.2V is considered detrimental for your hardware?

InkedSOC Voltage_LI.jpg
 
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Compared with my Aorus Master X570 it seems high - I would not down grade the bios
1595662235658.png

I am using XMP profiles for memory but with fixed settings and voltage, the CPU is set with vcore at 1.3 and the rest is auto
 

ragp13

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Compared with my Aorus Master X570 it seems high - I would not down grade the bios
View attachment 163439
I am using XMP profiles for memory but with fixed settings and voltage, the CPU is set with vcore at 1.3 and the rest is auto
Thanks for the input.

Thing is, with the newest BIOS I am getting random hard-rests when DOCP is enabled. Tried three different sets of QVL Ram that should work with the system, but no luck. Hence I was looking at downgrading the BIOS and saw this crazy difference in SOC.

Not sure what else to try to get the system stable.
 
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Thanks for the input.

Thing is, with the newest BIOS I am getting random hard-rests when DOCP is enabled. Tried three different sets of QVL Ram that should work with the system, but no luck. Hence I was looking at downgrading the BIOS and saw this crazy difference in SOC.

Not sure what else to try to get the system stable.
Just set the memory timings manually, DOCP is using XMP profiles which often don't work on Ryzen.
I can't use XMP/DOCP with my RAM, but I can run it at higher clocks and tighter timings than it's sold as, without any issues.
Have a look at the DRAM Calculator in the downloads section.
Note that you don't need to manually enter all the settings, see below screenshot for the important ones, the remaining ones can be left on auto. Note that this is from an older version, but the settings are still called the same.

changes.png
 
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Not had any issues with either 0608 or 0805 on my B550M-TUF WIFI, but even the exact same BIOS update contents can be wonky when packaged for one or two particular boards. Why downgrade if 0805 works? For me, 0805 is a damn solid release and PBO finally works again.

You can just manual VSoC to 1.1V, it's not like you have anything to lose. That's the Auto setting Asus is using for any common XMP profiles, and it's pretty much sure to sustain anything short of 3800+.

If you have stability issues with DOCP, enter the important timings from Calc, plus DRAM voltage, plus VSoC. Probably don't need to touch VDDG.

DOCP only really sets the primary timings anyways, leaves the rest on Auto, so you can easily do the same and see if there's a difference. Just remember to set your voltages.

Honestly, if you're not trying to push beyond 1:1, just leave your VSoC on 1.1V manual. Achieves the same effect as the intended Auto setting.

Don't forget to play around with your procODT to find a value that your memory kit likes more than the others. Makes a bigger difference than most ppl think, to stability, not just bootability. Recommended around 40ohms max for Ryzen 3000, but it's all down to trial and error. Asus default is either 50 or 60ohm on these lower to midrange B550 boards, not sure why.

My DJR had no particular reactions to Auto 50ohm, but hated going below 40. 43.6 works well enough for me, but it means nothing as to what you might find as to procODT. Every kit is different
 
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ragp13

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Just set the memory timings manually, DOCP is using XMP profiles which often don't work on Ryzen.
I can't use XMP/DOCP with my RAM, but I can run it at higher clocks and tighter timings than it's sold as, without any issues.
Have a look at the DRAM Calculator in the downloads section.
Note that you don't need to manually enter all the settings, see below screenshot for the important ones, the remaining ones can be left on auto. Note that this is from an older version, but the settings are still called the same.
Thanks. I did play around with DRAM Calc earlier, without 100% success (did eventually get a hard-reset).

Settings I now get from Taiphoon Burner for my Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3200 E-Die (new set, haven't tried these numbers yet) is:



Thing is, I have an Asus Prime B550M-A (wifi) and that motherboard isn't listed in DRAM Calc yet. Would you say the settings DRAM Calc shows seem reasonable?


Not had any issues with either 0608 or 0805 on my B550M-TUF WIFI, but even the exact same BIOS update contents can be wonky when packaged for one or two particular boards. Why downgrade if 0805 works? For me, 0805 is a damn solid release and PBO finally works again.

You can just manual VSoC to 1.1V, it's not like you have anything to lose. That's the Auto setting Asus is using for any common XMP profiles, and it's pretty much sure to sustain anything short of 3800+.

If you have stability issues with DOCP, enter the important timings from Calc, plus DRAM voltage, plus VSoC. Probably don't need to touch VDDG.

DOCP only really sets the primary timings anyways, leaves the rest on Auto, so you can easily do the same and see if there's a difference. Just remember to set your voltages.

Honestly, if you're not trying to push beyond 1:1, just leave your VSoC on 1.1V manual. Achieves the same effect as the intended Auto setting.

Don't forget to play around with your procODT to find a value that your memory kit likes more than the others. Makes a bigger difference than most ppl think, to stability, not just bootability. Recommended around 40ohms max for Ryzen 3000, but it's all down to trial and error. Asus default is either 50 or 60ohm on these lower to midrange B550 boards, not sure why.

My DJR had no particular reactions to Auto 50ohm, but hated going below 40. 43.6 works well enough for me, but it means nothing as to what you might find as to procODT. Every kit is different
I downgraded because I have random hard-reset (black screen immediate reboot without errors) when DOCP is enabled. Tried three different types of memory (2 QVL). In the latest 0805 bios SOC is 1.1V, but I heard people on the Asus ROG boards complain that they also had instability with a new BIOS and they downgraded. Thought I'd try the same and then saw this massive difference in Voltage for both 0608 and 0603. Strangely enough, someone else with a B550 Gaming F and 0603 does show normal SOC Voltage.

So which settings do you recommend entering based on the DRAM screenshot I showed above? Or is it best not to use Taiphoon Burner's imported XMP profile and only manually add numbers?

Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated after 3 weeks of instability...
 
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At 3200MHz, sure. CAS (tCL) 14 might be pushing it a bit, use 16 to be on the safe side to start with and then you can try and change and see if it works.
The rest looks very reasonable.
And as I said, no need to punch in all of the sub timings, auto should work fine for most of them.
I presume you're aware you now need to go into the UEFI and enter these manually, yes?

RAM is still the slightly tricky thing with Ryzen, but I'm surprised you're having problems with 3200MHz modules.
 

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At 3200MHz, sure. CAS (tCL) 14 might be pushing it a bit, use 16 to be on the safe side to start with and then you can try and change and see if it works.
The rest looks very reasonable.
And as I said, no need to punch in all of the sub timings, auto should work fine for most of them.
I presume you're aware you now need to go into the UEFI and enter these manually, yes?

RAM is still the slightly tricky thing with Ryzen, but I'm surprised you're having problems with 3200MHz modules.
Yes I am aware I have to enter these manually. :)

I just want a stable system at 3200mhz and don't understand why it's not working.

What would you say the safest bet would be? Because now when it's set to auto it runs at 16-18-18-18-36-72, with 1.35V DRAM and 1.1 VSOC. Infinity Fabric at 1600Mhz.

Then I get 1-2 crashes a day with three different sets of RAM... (not installed at once, just three different sets installed in DIMM A2 and B2)
 
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What are the kits you have and what memory ICs do they use?
 
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I get the feeling that you might have to just wait for BIOS revision that works / find another downgrade that works, or alternatively, change your board. My B550M Steel Legend that I had first had both available BIOSes faulty, randomly crashing in the middle of CPU-intensive tests, as well as RAM that was impossible to take to 3600 even at settings that I know is 100% stable on other boards. Nobody else seemed to run into similar problems with that ASRock board. I returned it for the TUF, which was also a little unsatisfactory on the revision it shipped with (either 0239 or 0603), before I updated to 0608 and subsequently 0805.

Crucial's new Rev.E Ballistix (with the squared-off, more subtle black heatspreaders) seem to clock extremely well, they sent BZ an assortment of differently rated new Ballistix and all of them got to 5000MT/s at around 1.5V or a little higher.

Word of advice: go to 3600 CL16, not 3200 CL14. The latter is not any easier to run than the former; you'll find that on many ICs, even B-die included, 3600 CL16 is easier for the RAM both voltage and stability-wise. 3600 CL16 also should perform better both in synthetic and real-world performance, because you'll never be able to achieve tight 3200 14-14-14 without B-die.

CJR/DJR and Rev.E aren't impressive on timings alone like B-die or 4Gb E-die, and prefer to scale upwards in frequency than downwards in tRCD and tRP. You should easily be able to achieve 52-53GB/s read or copy at 69ns or so at 3600 CL16, while 3200 14-17-17 (pretty much the tightest that CJR and Rev.E can go) will only get you to 49-50GB/s (if that), and worse latency at 70ns+.

TLDR don't try for 3200 CL14 without B-die; you won't get anywhere meaningful. Go for 3600 CL16, Rev.E should be able to do 16-18-18 @ 3600 if the new Ballistix kits are anything to go by.
 

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What are the kits you have and what memory ICs du they use?
First tried: G.Skill Ripjaws V F4-3200C16D-16GVKB (Samsung B-die) - QVL
Then tried: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT BLS2K8G4D32AESBK (Micron E-die) - non-QVL
Now running: Crucial Ballistix BL2K8G32C16U4B (Micron E-die) - QVL

All produced the same type of instability with DOCP enabled. Never an issue Booting, but it could hard-reset within minutes of logging into Windows, or after hours of gaming. Mostly at idle, not always. Temps are fine. Reinstalled Windows. Tried different GPU and Chipset drivers. Doesn't affect it one bit. Only the DOCP/ram settings affect it.

I get the feeling that you might have to just wait for BIOS revision that works / find another downgrade that works, or alternatively, change your board. My B550M Steel Legend that I had first had both available BIOSes faulty, randomly crashing in the middle of CPU-intensive tests, as well as RAM that was impossible to take to 3600 even at settings that I know is 100% stable on other boards. Nobody else seemed to run into similar problems with that ASRock board. I returned it for the TUF, which was also a little unsatisfactory on the revision it shipped with (either 0239 or 0603), before I updated to 0608 and subsequently 0805.

Crucial's new Rev.E Ballistix (with the squared-off, more subtle black heatspreaders) seem to clock extremely well, they sent BZ an assortment of differently rated new Ballistix and all of them got to 5000MT/s at around 1.5V or a little higher.

Word of advice: go to 3600 CL16, not 3200 CL14. The latter is not any easier to run than the former; you'll find that on many ICs, even B-die included, 3600 CL16 is easier for the RAM both voltage and stability-wise. 3600 CL16 also should perform better both in synthetic and real-world performance, because you'll never be able to achieve tight 3200 14-14-14 without B-die.

CJR/DJR and Rev.E aren't impressive on timings alone like B-die or 4Gb E-die, and prefer to scale upwards in frequency than downwards in tRCD and tRP. You should easily be able to achieve 52-53GB/s read or copy at 69ns or so at 3600 CL16, while 3200 14-17-17 (pretty much the tightest that CJR and Rev.E can go) will only get you to 49-50GB/s (if that), and worse latency at 70ns+.

TLDR don't try for 3200 CL14 without B-die; you won't get anywhere meaningful. Go for 3600 CL16, Rev.E should be able to do 16-18-18 @ 3600 if the new Ballistix kits are anything to go by.
I get your point about having to wait for BIOS revisions. But annoyingly Asus is saying that they have no issues running my hardware setup, so I'm concerned they're not looking into it. Even though I know at least another person with exactly the same issue on an ASUS B550 Gaming F.

I'm just entering the RAM OC scene, but I think my Crucial Ballistix BL2K8G32C16U4B are the new Rev.E Ballistix?

I don't even need to go to 3600 CL16. Just 3200CL16 is fine. I just wish I knew what settings would work for my memory on it's rated speed because nothing seems to work... As if there's something I'm missing but I don't know what. I'm sure memory is in DIMM A2 B2 for example, which would have been an obvious mistake.
 
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Yeah, I feel you. It always sucks to be that one guy whose board hates the firmware it's given. My local stores all have an easy 14-day returns policy, which is plenty for me to decide from first impressions and troubleshooting whether a board is worth my time. But if the returns window has passed......no bueno.

That's new Ballistix, correct. From that list of RAM kits you've tried, I don't think anything's going to change unless the board is somehow fixed. Lower-rated B-die tends to be spotty, but all the same, B-die has very different preferences and characteristics to Rev.E, which in turn is different from CJR. Unless there was some obvious issue like a bad procODT value that was somehow despised by both B-die and Rev.E, I can't think of any reason all three kits run into the same problem.

The unexplained crashing just reeks of bad firmware implementation. It's one of things that I can't really explain, but aside from the rampant instability on that ASRock board I've never experienced anything that behaves quite like it.

Are you sure it's the RAM that's crashing the system? My Steel Legend board was crashing as a result of the CPU somehow being unable to make it to the end of any and every stress test without suddenly rebooting. RAM was...difficult to wrestle with, especially since ASRock mandates 1.2V SoC for any XMP speed (???), but unrelated to the main crashing symptoms.

If you're sure that it's to do with RAM, you can use the Memtesthelper guide, which walks you through every step, you don't have to start with Calc recommendations: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Is your procODT still on Auto? If it is, what does Ryzen Master say procODT is currently set to?
 

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Are you sure it's the RAM that's crashing the system? My Steel Legend board was crashing as a result of the CPU somehow being unable to make it to the end of any and every stress test without suddenly rebooting. RAM was...difficult to wrestle with, especially since ASRock mandates 1.2V SoC for any XMP speed (???), but unrelated to the main crashing symptoms.

If you're sure that it's to do with RAM, you can use the Memtesthelper guide, which walks you through every step, you don't have to start with Calc recommendations: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Is your procODT still on Auto? If it is, what does Ryzen Master say procODT is currently set to?
I'm 90% sure it's the RAM because the only consistency I've found that it will always crash (at least once a day) when DOCP is enabled, and has not yet crashed with DOCP disabled. Technically that's not due to the RAM, but probably the Motherboard, or bad CPU memory controller?

I'm not sure I want to go the route of memory testing because I've tried 3 different sets and in my view the only conclusion IF I find a memory error, is that it's still caused by the Mobo/CPU. So not sure what I'll learn from that.


procODT is on Auto and set to 24.

Also, HWINFO shows SOC Voltage to be 1,012-1,025 (I set it to 1,025 in the BIOS), but Ryzen master claims VDDCR SOC is 1,1V? I think it might be a bug and I'll assume BIOS and HWINFO are correct.
 
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No, it's neither. It's down to DOCP setting up the wrong timings for the RAM. Keep in mind that XMP was designed for Intel and DOCP uses the XMP timings and are trying to apply them to an AMD CPU. So there's nothing wrong with your hardware, stop using DOCP and you should seemingly be fine.

procODT seems WAY too low, you should most likely be somewhere around 40.
 

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No, it's neither. It's down to DOCP setting up the wrong timings for the RAM. Keep in mind that XMP was designed for Intel and DOCP uses the XMP timings and are trying to apply them to an AMD CPU. So there's nothing wrong with your hardware, stop using DOCP and you should seemingly be fine.

procODT seems WAY too low, you should most likely be somewhere around 40.
Ok so I'll avoid using DOCP and set things manually where possible.

Seems like I made a mistake with procODT. I read it incorrectly from Ryzen Master, it's set at 60 when on Auto.
 
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Ok so I'll avoid using DOCP and set things manually where possible.

Seems like I made a mistake with procODT. I read it incorrectly from Ryzen Master, it's set at 60 when on Auto.
As I said above, you don't need to set every single setting, as a lot the minor things don't seem to matter all that much.

60 for procODT might be a bit high, but rather that, than the system crashing. I'm sure @tabascosauz can give you some better pointers for where it should be at on B550 boards.

Does the system still crash, or did setting things up manually help?
 

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As I said above, you don't need to set every single setting, as a lot the minor things don't seem to matter all that much.

60 for procODT might be a bit high, but rather that, than the system crashing. I'm sure @tabascosauz can give you some better pointers for where it should be at on B550 boards.

Does the system still crash, or did setting things up manually help?
All I set now are:

GearDown = Enabled
Command Rate = 1T
Soc = 1.025
FCLK = 1600
DRAM Mhz = 3200
DRAM V = 1.36

Main timings: 16-18-18-18-36-72

Seems to be going well so far. But need at least another day to say its an improvement over default DOCP.

Appreciate the help!

Oddly enough, my Radeon Host Software got damaged yesterday... I couldn't open the Adrenalin interface anymore and Windows Reliability index showed:

Description
Faulting Application Path: C:\Program Files\AMD\CNext\CNext\Radeonsoftware.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Radeonsoftware.exe
Application Version: 10.1.2.1808
Application Timestamp: 5f0a3208
Fault Module Name: Radeonsoftware.exe
Fault Module Version: 10.1.2.1808
Fault Module Timestamp: 5f0a3208
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000000000021f4b7

This was on a fresh Windows Install 3 days ago.

Can memory errors damage system files?

Had to DDU the drivers and now installed older AMD GPU drivers (20.4.x) instead of 20.7.x
 
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Yes, if something is being written and your RAM throws a fit, files can be damaged.

Fingers crossed it's all fixed now.
 
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Power Supply Seasonic SGX-650 (Cablemod SE)
Mouse Endgame XM1
Keyboard various customs
Software Windows 10 2004
Good to see that it's getting closer to stability.

Like swede said, unstable memory runs a serious risk of data corruption or bricking your entire Windows install, both of which happened to me more than once.

Not sure what you're using to test memory; a few runs through memory and CPU benchmarks far from enough.
Make sure you're testing the standard gamut of tests like Memtest86 booting from a USB stick, but also going through more advanced stability testing like HCI (200% minimum with all your memory loaded up in the test save for the bare minimum 1GB or so for Windows functions), as well as taking the time to run applications and tests that heat up the RAM significantly through a long run of Prime95 Large FFTs and GPU-demanding games. CSGO was the biggest surprise for me, if FPS is uncapped, it takes all the GPU power it can get and gets quite hot, heat which is then dumped onto the DIMMs.

Though honestly, the stability-when-hot subject is more an issue when pushing VDIMM closer to 1.4V or above and running the IMC close to its freq or IF limits. At the same time, depending on who you ask, Rev.E can be moderately temperature-sensitive, so it's always best to err on the safe side. It is your hard drive data on the line, after all.

I still think it's worth it to see where different procODT will get you. 1usmus' older Ryzen guide seemed to suggest that procODT is somewhat linked to the quality of the board, meaning that 4-6 layer lower midrange boards like both of ours might struggle with lower procODT. The continued validity of this old theory seems a little questionable to me, especially since Ryzen 3000 *should* no longer prefer the higher ~50-60ohm procODT of its predecessors, but you never know. I know that my sticks on this particular board are averse to going below 40ohms, as they stop being fully stable. Asus auto was 50, I run 43.6, and I ran 53 on my previous ITX board (which is a 6-layer, more compact and obviously 2DIMM board). Just remember that while there are some vague ranges for procODT, it is a very pick-and-choose affair. Ideal procODT may lie in a very counterintuitive place or next to a sea of other values that don't work.

16-18-18 3200 especially with GDM enabled should honestly be a walk in the park. Geardown normally makes a huge difference in stability at higher speeds, and is our slightly faster version of reverting from 1T to 2T (we can still do 2T without Geardown but the Intel boys can only revert to 2T as they don't have GDM). At something as loose as 3200 CL16, most good quality ICs including Rev.E shouldn't even need GDM. If it continues to fail stability testing, I'm afraid that this board just isn't going to be cooperative.
 

ragp13

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Jul 18, 2020
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Good to see that it's getting closer to stability.
Well... It looked like it was running fine for 10+ hours and now suddenly when booting a third game: green screen and automatic reboot... Interestingly with higher SOC V it's mostly black screens when it crashes with an immediate reboot. Having lowered SOC V it changed to green screens and the reboot seems less abrupt.

I did run a 500% MemTest in DRAM Calc for multiple hours without fault.

Back to the drawing board, but with which options?
 
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