Hello to all! I'm new around here and would like to share some info and comments with people who really uses a discussion forum to discuss stuff and not only has a "quick help" site. My current gripe is the cooling solution that ATI manufacturers uses for their cards. Take the example the newly 4850 thats uses the same antiquated cooler design. What the keck! Did the produce like 1 billion of these thing and then the said "DUH! i think we made too much. I know... let's slap these on new cards for the next ten years." Wow. Same cooler with different stickers on top that peel away because of the heat. The 4870 and the X2 should be no different. Some folks actually try to make an alternaltive after market cooler than can do a better job than the stock one but does not give much more. All these guys should think of one thing. "HOT AIR RISES". All that heat rides along the "ceiling" of the card not really improving things. They should reverse the cards so that the GPU would be on top instead of being on the bottom. To make it worse, if you got 2 or more cards, the heat from the other cards don't improve the one that is above them. My current temps are 55C wihile i'm typing this. The more i think about it, i should really turn mc case upside down and reverse the fans so it takes cool air from the back and blows it out the front.