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B450F Strix and new 3800x/ DOCP ram not stable

Tey

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Hello and sorry for my English,
I recently replaced my 2700x for a 3800x and a new ram kit Gskill f4-3600c16d-32gtzrc (SK Hynix) 2x16Go wich DOCP profile is 3600 C16-19-19-19-39. Im running bios 2704.
When I set the DOCP profile for my ram, it will boot for the first time, with no errors on memtest64, but if I shut down/reboot the PC..it will not post again (or post but BSOD Windows just after).
I tried to lower timings, I tried at 3400/3200, same.
I tried some timings on the Ryzen Dram calculator and same..
It only boot and boot again at 3000Mhz..wich is pretty bad for this ram/CPU..

If anyone could help me..
 

sneekypeet

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If it is the B450F Strix Gaming, there is BIOS 3003. 2901 is shown to add memory overclocking help too (and will be part of 3003). I would try a BIOS update first, reset CMOS, and see what shakes.
 

Tey

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I think I can try this, but eared that 3003 was worst for memory OC..
 

sneekypeet

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Try 2901 first. Looking at the site, it helps with memory and the new CPUs.
 

Tey

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Ok I just tried 2901, and finally it can boot and reboot !
Boots seem to be a bit difficult for the MB (shutting fans down in the middle of post) but it works

1 hour of memtest64–> no error.
I hope it will be ok.
Thx to you !
 
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Hello and sorry for my English,
I recently replaced my 2700x for a 3800x and a new ram kit Gskill f4-3600c16d-32gtzrc (SK Hynix) 2x16Go wich DOCP profile is 3600 C16-19-19-19-39. Im running bios 2704.
When I set the DOCP profile for my ram, it will boot for the first time, with no errors on memtest64, but if I shut down/reboot the PC..it will not post again (or post but BSOD Windows just after).
I tried to lower timings, I tried at 3400/3200, same.
I tried some timings on the Ryzen Dram calculator and same..
It only boot and boot again at 3000Mhz..wich is pretty bad for this ram/CPU..

If anyone could help me..
Lowering timings definitely won’t help when troubleshooting mem.
Long boot times or rebooting during boot could mean that board/CPU is trying to train the sticks.
UEFI update can help.
You can try manual voltage for the sticks. 1.35V or even 1.4V to see if anything changes.
 

Tey

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It seems that with bios 3003, DOCP profiles for ram will not run.
Cold boot issues with DOCP ram
have been there since a lot of time on this board with zen 2 CPU (it seems that a lot of people still get this issue with bios 2704/2801/2901/3003.
 
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Forget the DOCP/XMP profiles, set the timings and voltage manually. Less problems and more performance. Its a win-win really.
 

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Even timings, not odd.
3600 C16-19-19-19-39 is odd, set them to
C16-20-20-20-40
C16-18-18-18-40
C16-20-20-20-38
C16-18-18-18-38

C18-20-20-20-40
C18-18-18-18-40
C18-20-20-20-38
C18-18-18-18-38

You may need to go from 1T to 2T even.

Reference the Gskill website for an AMD Ryzen approved kit and get the timings and voltages from there and manually enter them or have a shop or friend that knows what they are doing show you.
 

Tey

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You think C16-20-20-20-40 will be better in perf than C16-19-19-19-39 ?
 
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You think C16-20-20-20-40 will be better in perf than C16-19-19-19-39 ?
Performance wise yes or no, but stability more of a yes...
And if the odd timings producing alot of errors then losser but even timings could overall have better perf. This is in theory though.

I would try straight 16-18-18-18-38 or 16-18-18-18-36 with 1.35V manual DRAM voltage and if not work, I'd give 1.4V.
I would try also CPU SoC voltage manual to 1.1~1.15V. If problem persists then:

1. The above timings with 1.4V DRAM
2. CPU SoC voltage 1.15V
3. cLDO VDDP 950mV (0.95V)
4. cLDO VDDG 1000mV (1.0V)
5. CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled (disables power savings for SOC/IO die)

XMP/DOCP profile Disabled

SoC (System on Chip) or IO (Input/Output) die is the part (chiplet) of the CPU that contains among others the UMC (Unified memory controller) and the IF (Infinity Fabric).

 

eidairaman1

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Ryzen perfer even timings than odd
 

Tey

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I only set the first five timings/ Dram voltage, and I let others on auto ?
CPU Soc voltage, is it « V SOC VOLTAGE OVERIDE » in my asus bios ?
 
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Even timings, not odd.
3600 C16-19-19-19-39 is odd, set them to
C16-20-20-20-40
C16-18-18-18-40
C16-20-20-20-38
C16-18-18-18-38

C18-20-20-20-40
C18-18-18-18-40
C18-20-20-20-38
C18-18-18-18-38

You may need to go from 1T to 2T even.

Reference the Gskill website for an AMD Ryzen approved kit and get the timings and voltages from there and manually enter them or have a shop or friend that knows what they are doing show you.
Performance wise yes or no, but stability more of a yes...
And if the odd timings producing alot of errors then losser but even timings could overall have better perf. This is in theory though.

I would try straight 16-18-18-18-38 or 16-18-18-18-36 with 1.35V manual DRAM voltage and if not work, I'd give 1.4V.
I would try also CPU SoC voltage manual to 1.1~1.15V. If problem persists then:

1. The above timings with 1.4V DRAM
2. CPU SoC voltage 1.15V
3. cLDO VDDP 950mV (0.95V)
4. cLDO VDDG 1000mV (1.0V)
5. CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled (disables power savings for SOC/IO die)

XMP/DOCP profile Disabled

SoC (System on Chip) or IO (Input/Output) die is the part (chiplet) of the CPU that contains among others the UMC (Unified memory controller) and the IF (Infinity Fabric).

16-19-19-39 and 17-19-19-39 are actually pretty standard XMP for Hynix DJR. Going any tighter to 16-18-18 may not be possible depending on the kit, CJR and DJR have loose tRCDRD and tRP compared to B-die, it's just how the kits are. tRAS can be tightened quite a bit, but not the other two.

I would double check the XMP timings, but I have a feeling they'll already be 2T default, which is more relaxed and stable than 1T.

If the DRAM voltage is 1.35V, SOC is around 1.087V to 1.1V, Power Down mode disabled, I can't think of too much aside from setting manual timings settings. 3800X generally shouldn't have trouble hitting 1800MHz FCLK like the 3600 do, but it's not a guarantee.

Geardown mode doesn't really do shit. When it comes to "odd" timings, the one that matters and is affected by Geardown (which automatically adds +1 for more latency) is tCL, which is already 16 and even.

Try putting in these timings at 1.35v. Put in all of them and see if the issues persist. If they do, solution may be to get a different kit.

DJR v1 3600 fast.png
 

sneekypeet

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Can I got some more info on how Gear Down Mode does not work?
I disable mine on the Crosshair 8 and I can run odd timings all day long.
 

Tey

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As I said, after updating to bios 2901, I’m able to run the kit at DOCP profile with no issue at all and it seems to be pretty stable, no errors after 2hours of memtest.
I was also able to run it on 2704 but only on the first boot, after shut down/boot again it will not post.

Now there is only this strange double boot issue (the MB does 2 times ram check instead of one, but after that boot is ok), it seems to be a problem on a lot Of ASUS MB B450/X470 with zen 2 whatever the CPU/ram kit, it’s probably a bios problem.

I will probably try timings you all show me for better performance but not all the Dram calculator ones, it’s too complicated and I can’t find some of them on my asus bios like CADBUS etc..
 
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No need for all of them yes, start with main ones like
16-18-18-18-36 1.35V manual
DOCP/XMP disabled and everything else on auto

CAD_BUS settings must be with different name in the UEFI in the page of advanced DRAM settings or whatever its called on your board. Its standard settings and almost every board has them.
Look the main page of RyzenMaster last section at the end of the page down below to see the name you could find them. Values are ohm...
 
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Can I got some more info on how Gear Down Mode does not work?
I disable mine on the Crosshair 8 and I can run odd timings all day long.
No, that's exactly how disabling Geardown is expected to work. My point is Geardown adds +1 step to tCL only (doesn't do much), and the rest of the odd timings here shouldn't really be the issue, as pretty much all the Trident DJR kits share these loose 19-19-39 XMP timings, and a number of them are now being branded as officially Ryzen-compatible.

As I said, after updating to bios 2901, I’m able to run the kit at DOCP profile with no issue at all and it seems to be pretty stable, no errors after 2hours of memtest.
I was also able to run it on 2704 but only on the first boot, after shut down/boot again it will not post.

Now there is only this strange double boot issue (the MB does 2 times ram check instead of one, but after that boot is ok), it seems to be a problem on a lot Of ASUS MB B450/X470 with zen 2 whatever the CPU/ram kit, it’s probably a bios problem.

I will probably try timings you all show me for better performance but not all the Dram calculator ones, it’s too complicated and I can’t find some of them on my asus bios like CADBUS etc..
Sounds like the board is taking a little extra time for memory training. Mine can take two or three auto-reboots on a new RAM kit or brand new set of timings, but works itself out on the next boot. Boot time sometimes changes after about a week too after using a new kit/timings.

Just give yourself a little bit of time next time you can spare it, have a screenshot of the calc settings and take it steady changing one setting at a time. CAD_BUS and termination block settings are often not on the same page as the rest of the timings, and shouldn't be quite as important / even need much changing. Just get all the main timings down, then the secondary timings down, the voltage right, and Geardown and Powerdown where they should be (disabled).

Be warned, 18-18 may require additional voltage or SOC voltage to be stable. I suspect that's why G.skill keeps its DJRs at 19-19. Mine at 16-18-18-32 1.35v passed memtest86 with flying colours but after about a week I started having BSODs and strange errors in unexpected places, so I stepped back to 16-19-19-32. The difference is barely 0.4ns in AIDA64 latency, for a lot more stability at 19.

CJR and DJR do not scale comfortably with voltage like B-die, but 1.4v should be no problem either. But don't give it the extra voltage if you don't really feel an urgent need to. In case one day you feel like pushing the envelope a bit, I feel like DJR definitely has more surprises in store than CJR with a little bump in voltage. But until that day, I'm happy to see that the new BIOS did the trick.
 
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