Baking a printplate over and over again?

[ZoneDymo]

Hey hey,

So Im sure plenty of you are familiar with this method of resurrecting non function hardware.
Put it in the oven for a while, the solder will supposidely melt and reset itself and after your hardware works.

I have done this with a few items in the past to good effect.
But now im a bit puzzled, i have a printplate for a....well printer, and this printer did not function well.
So I put it in the oven aaaand voila, works like a charm,....and then a bit later it starts acting up a bit, back in the oven, rince and repeat.

Can anyone shed any light on this?
Why does it work well after the oven (and cooling down) and then it starts misbehaving again?

I was thinking maybe its the usb cable that that messes it up with minor voltages/currents that mess with the electronics so I switched to ethernet but that also does not fix it.

really I just dont understand why over time, after functioning great after a oven job, it starts to malfunction again.

 

[joemama]

You should probably provide more details about your printer and how it malfunctions if you expect some nice replies

 

[Bill_Bright]

I would never attempt to bake anything these days. 20 years ago, maybe - but the use of plastics is too widespread today. Something is likely to melt or become physically distorted before any desired effect occurs. This is because the melting point of solder used on circuit boards today is typically between 183°C (361.4°F) and 210°C (410°F).

If your printer has failed, it is much more likely it is due to a component, or several components that have failed, rather than a solder joint suddenly going bad.

 

[Shrek]

Without flux the solder will melt but not bind.

For video cards I use flux and a heat gun to avoid heating up all the components.
Video Card Reflow | Electronics Repair And Technology News Video Card Reflow (jestineyong.com)

 

[Anoniem]

Well the oven baking technique is more of a crude approach to what a hot air reflow is supposed to do. The fun part is that it's a very crude approach to solving these problems. It could be anything on the PCB to be honest. What temperature are you using? I really doubt it's leaded and lead-free solder depending on what it contains melts at around what Bill mentioned. Even when you're using the right temp I doubt that it'll solve your problem. Printers (ink) don't really suffer from thermal cycling which kills BGA's solder balls and similar SMD components.

Brand? Type of printer? Age? Pictures?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Without flux the solder will melt but not bind.

Kinda, sorta, but not really. The reason for flux is to clean and de-oxidize the mating surfaces to keep contaminants out of the joint. It also helps to reduce surface friction so the flux flows more easily and quickly. This is important to ensure thorough coverage before the solder cools and solidifies. But if those surfaces are already clean, the solder will bind just fine. Flux also helps to inhibit corrosion after the soldering job is completed.

That said, I am not suggesting flux is not needed, or should not be used. It definitely should.

Also, it is important to note that soldering is a skill. And like all skills, should be practiced before working on the real thing.

Well the oven baking technique is... ...a very crude approach to solving these problems.

It is very crude primarily because you cannot localize the heat like you can with a hot air gun or iron.

For the record, leaded solder is still widely used in electronics because of its low-melting point. And while lead, of course, is still a hazardous material, in solder it is part of an alloy and therefore cannot be easily ingested in its hazardous form. Also, where used, it typically is not exposed, but inside some sort of case or enclosure. And while I guess there have been a few people who swallow cell phones, pretty sure that's an exception and not the norm.

 

[toilet pepper]

I would never attempt to bake anything these days. 20 years ago, maybe

This! They don't use standard lead anymore. I've done my fair bit of soldering on some components and the probability of plastic melting first before the solder is high. The solder they use now can withstand high heat and your typical dollar store soldering iron/gun wont even make the solders soft.

 

[Shrek]

$25 gets one a reasonable heat gun.

 

[Anoniem]

If you're going to heat something up, please make sure that the PCB is saturated with heat first. It makes life sooo much easier. Something like a hot plate or heating it up with hot air from a distance helps, then start focusing on an area with more heat.

This! They don't use standard lead anymore. I've done my fair bit of soldering on some components and the probability of plastic melting first before the solder is high. The solder they use now can withstand high heat and your typical dollar store soldering iron/gun wont even make the solders soft.

Exactly what toilet pepper said, lead free solder is a PITA but plastic is an even bigger PITA. If there is any plastic on the PCB then make sure there are no fumes and ventilate the area you're in. Also keep in mind that caps really don't like heat for a prolonged time.

I hate to be that guy but eehhhh, unless you know what you're doing and it's a hobby project, get a new printer.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

For video cards, and xbox 360 repair, i used the copper slug from a stock intel cooler. Heat slug up, place directly on GPU till it cools. I suppose you could put the slug on any chip

 

[Shrek]

I would be worried that the weight squishes the solder.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

I would be worried that the weight squishes the solder.

Done it a few times, works great. Slug is about 250 grams maybe, could be a bit more.
This slug

 

[Shrek]

Ah, the chip is glued and that would support the weight.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Ah, the chip is glued and that would support the weight.

works a treat, revived lots of red ring xboxes

 

[Shrek]

I believe you, but might not work on a chip not held by glue.

 

[delshay]

$25 gets one a reasonable heat gun.

I experimented a few month back with a infrared lamp from my work station. Yes you can use it as a hand held heat source & it's faster than a real hot air gun.

As for reflow I did this to memory module. It worked for about three days then it went faulty again. Put flux all around the chip & it seems to have fixed it permanently.

I'm in the middle of a massive repair/restore of high end DDR2 memory modules so I may put up lots of photo's. There's lot's of reballing to be done.



Stencils DDR1-DDR5 Plus GDDR5 - GDDR6 on it's way
25000 solder balls per bottle.

 

[Shrek]

As for reflow I did this to memory module. It worked for about three days then it went faulty again. Put flux all around the chip & it seems to have fixed it permanently.

Flux, flux, flux; l wonder which is best.

 

[delshay]

Flux, flux, flux; l wonder which is best.

I used no-clean flux, it's fairly thin. On each application of the flux on each side tilt the PCB so the flux flow under the BGA chip, so you are doing this one at a time for all four side of the chip then do a reflow.. I already have two working DIMMS with more repairs on the way, but all remaining DIMM will be taken apart reballed & put back together.

EDIT: It's important to put enough flux so when the PCB is tilted, flux reaches the inner most solder balls.


This is the flux I used

 

[Shrek]

It's important to put enough flux so when the PCB is tilted, flux reaches the inner most solder balls.

I make sure to put enough in so it comes out the other side. I use Kester 186; no clean, but I still clean it off.

 

[joemama]

Unless your reflow can completely evaporate the flux, these no clean flux still requires cleaning

 

[delshay]

Unless your reflow can completely evaporate the flux, these no clean flux still requires cleaning

The flux I use does evaporate if you leave it there long enough. The main purpose of that flux is for reballing, other type of flux causes issues, ie balls getting stuck in the stencil.

 

[ZoneDymo]

OP HERE:

ermm cannot not adjust the original post anymore?
Well lets get some answers out of the way:

Its an HP p2015dn.

Again while I appreciate all the feedback on it being a crude method etc, I get that, but I dont have the skill to figure out what component on the board is really being the problem.
I also want to say it is 100% something on the printplate, the entire printer functions 100% perfectly when the printplate has been in the oven for a bit.

how long do I put it in the oven, ermm well its a hotair oven if that matters and about 200 C for about 10 minutes, but I have varied that a bit.

Right now the printer works btw, I only turn it on when I need to print something because I think leaving it on again "breaks" something that leads me to have to put it in the oven again.

I own a few heatguns but I specifically dont want to use them because I would not know where and I am afraid that I would hold it in one place too long and break something.

The oven method works, my only question is, does anyone know why its not permanent, WHY does it work after the oven job for a while but after that it starts acting up again.

Could it be that the powersupply or something feeds it with a "bad" current that just messes up a component after a while that hte oven job resets?

 

[Bill_Bright]

The oven method works, my only question is, does anyone know why its not permanent, WHY does it work after the oven job for a while but after that it starts acting up again.

I can only guess and my guess would be due to physical properties of matter. That is, where matter expands when heated and contracts when cooled. So perhaps there is a microfracture internally to a component on the board (and thus not visible). When heated, matter expands and the microfracture closes allowing current to flow. When cooled again, the matter contracts again causing the gap in the fracture to open and current no longer flows.

If hesitant to use an gun, then perhaps a decent soldering pencil and you can work your way across the board, touching each solder joint just long enough to melt the solder again so it reflows though that connection. If possible, put an alligator clip or hemostats on the component side of the lead to "sink" away heat from the iron to prevent heat damage to the component (see this image).

If not comfortable doing that, then try contacting HP and see if they will sell you a new circuit board. Hopefully the part number is on the board. Or if lucky and you have an authorized HP repair center in your area, you might be able to get them to order one for you. I say "lucky" because it is my past experience that HP does not like (or allow) the end-user consumers to order parts through those centers unless that center is actually doing the repair. HP is no alone in that practice. It is just another way printer companies like to maintain total (monopolistic) control over their products. Their goal, IMO, is to "encourage" us to buy a whole new printing device as there is much more profit in that.