Basic internet speed question

[BackwoodsBob]

I don't understand this stuff. Ok, I kinda understand this stuff, but not really.
I am right now downloading a game. It is installing at a whopping 4 Mbs
My network usage according to my monitors show 4.5 Mbs usage.
I have a mind altering 30Mbs service.
I can run Ookla right now and still pull the same 32.xx mbs as before I started the download.
I understand a few things, but none of it makes sense.
I have heard that it depends on the broad band usage
It depends on how fast or how slow the system is feeding it to you.
It depends on how many people are using the internet at the very same time in your house/neighborhood, etc.
None of that makes sense because
if I was Bethesda, I would be trying to cram that down your throat as fast as I could to free up those resources
It is 2:30 in the afternoon and most folks are at work
I am the only one currently on the web in my house
and
Why does my program that monitors that crap only show just a fuzz more network usage than what the game is using to download/install? where the hell are my other 28 Mbs?
Ookla still reads 32.xx Mbs down and 6 up with a 7ms ping.
Last, if I only have a 7ms ping, why does it take 20 to 40 seconds for a page to load?
I did have a conversation with someone about packet size (MTU?) but I did not understand the directions on how to check the router and adjust.
Using spectrum inet.
If some one can pretend they are talking to a 10 year old and 'splain the why of the questions above, that would be great.
TIA!

 

[P4-630]

Mbps to MB/s Converter (Megabit per second to Megabyte per second)

Mbps to MB/s converter helps you to convert the data transfer rate megabit per second to megabyte per second. Mbit/s to MBs bitrate calculator.

www.gbmb.org

 

[the54thvoid]

This link explains, I think.

Megabits vs. Megabytes: What you need to know

Confused about megabits and megabytes? We’ll explain what the difference is so you can keep them straight when it really counts.

www.highspeedinternet.com

Ninja'd by P4-630

 

[BackwoodsBob]

Mbps to MB/s Converter (Megabit per second to Megabyte per second)

Mbps to MB/s converter helps you to convert the data transfer rate megabit per second to megabyte per second. Mbit/s to MBs bitrate calculator.

www.gbmb.org

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer.

 

[the54thvoid]

The connection speed (what ISP's advertise) is megabits. The download speed is megabytes. There are 8 bits to a byte. So a connection of 8 megabits would download at 1 megabyte.

Sort of.

 

[milewski1015]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer.

The short answer is that megabits (Mb) and megabytes (MB) are not the same thing. 8 bits equals 1 byte, so it makes sense that 32 Mbps equals 4 megabytes per second

 

[BackwoodsBob]

This link explains, I think.

Megabits vs. Megabytes: What you need to know

Confused about megabits and megabytes? We’ll explain what the difference is so you can keep them straight when it really counts.

www.highspeedinternet.com

Ninja'd by P4-630

I know the difference between bits and bytes. I know I am getting 30 Mbs and only using 4. That is my question.

The connection speed (what ISP's advertise) is megabits. The download speed is megabytes. There are 8 bits to a byte. So a connection of 8 megabits would download at 1 megabyte.

Sort of.

On the surface that makes perfect sense.
sort of.
the ISP advertised speed is 30 Mbs
the download speed should be 30 Mbs.
Ookla shows 32.xx Mbs
The monitor shows I am using 4.5 Mbs.
The game shows 4.0 Mbs.
I understand the difference in b and B. I am not confusing the two... I hope.
Somehow I am not getting it.

 

[the54thvoid]

I know the difference between bits and bytes. I know I am getting 30 Mbs and only using 4. That is my question.

Your actual download speed is measured differently from your connection speed. You're confusing the two as one.

Your 30Mbps connection speed yields downloads at 4MB/s (ish).

 

[BackwoodsBob]

View attachment 188760
The short answer is that megabits (Mb) and megabytes (MB) are not the same thing. 8 bits equals 1 byte, so it makes sense that 32 Mbps equals 4 megabytes per second

The game shows the little b, not MBs, Mbs. I see your math. it would make perfect sense if anything else said anything other than Mbs. But it doesn't.
That's my gripe.

Here are a few pics. I am not confusing Mbs with MBs.

 

[P4-630]

Why does my program that monitors that crap only show just a fuzz more network usage than what the game is using to download/install? where the hell are my other 28 Mbs?

If you want 32 MBs you need a 256 Mbps internet connection.

 

[BackwoodsBob]

If you want 32 MBs you need a 256 Mbps internet connection.

I want to know why I have an internet speed of 30 Mbs and why I am only using 4 Mbs.
I fear somehow that is not clear.

 

[agent_x007]

Because :
1) Server suck at sending small files (few KiB in) over large distances. You aren't downloading one massive .ISO after all.
Depending on destination (SSD/USB/HDD), writing of small files can be VERY slow.
Also, CPU speed is somewhat important for decompressing data (because what you are downloading aren't raw files, but mostly archive type files for ease of error correction)
2) kB = kilobytes, kb = kilobits, KiB = Kibibytes

 

[windwhirl]

The game shows the little b, not MBs, Mbs. I see your math. it would make perfect sense if anything else said anything other than Mbs. But it doesn't.
That's my gripe.

Eh, sometimes people don't really remember to use the correct capitalization for it. I would try using Task Manager to measure your game's download speed, since on Windows 10 it reports network usage as bits per second, I checked that against my own Internet connection while running the speedtest.

Last, if I only have a 7ms ping, why does it take 20 to 40 seconds for a page to load?

A ping just says how much time it takes for a packet to travel to a specific server and "bounce back" to you. A webpage can have many elements from different servers, each with their own capacity. Basically, think of it as a water pipe. There is only so much water/data that can flow through it at a given time. If it's just you using that server, the pipe is all yours. But when more people are using it at the same time, the pipe has to be shared among the users, hence you get a lower amount of data per second. Depending on the page, those servers might be serving just that website's users or users from multiple websites. Amazon Web Services (AWS) is an example of the latter, since they serve content from many different customers/websites to many Internet users around the world.

I did have a conversation with someone about packet size (MTU?) but I did not understand the directions on how to check the router and adjust.

Eh, I think it really doesn't matter much anymore, unless you had a really low value? Back in the day, the recommendation was 576, I think, for dial-up and 1500 for broadband, but today pretty much all routers come default with the MTU value set to 1500 or at least somewhere around 1470-ish, because hardly anyone has broadband lower than 2 Mbps anymore. 1500 is the maximum value supported for MTU. It's usually in the Internet or WAN setup/config of the router's configuration page. Might need to check the advanced section if there is one, since it's rather unusual these days to change it.

Windows 10 already uses the maximum size by default too.

 

[TheLostSwede]

The internet is a mess, which is pretty much why you're often not maxing out even a fairly slow connection like yours.
I have a 200/30mbps connection and sometimes updating games I get speeds of 4mbps just like you, sometimes I max out my connection.
These days a lot of the clients used for downloading the games relies on torrent or torrent like technologies to split up the download. As such, you might be pulling data from multiple locations. On a good day this improved the overall download speed, but on a bad day, it has the opposite effect. It also depends on how popular a certain title are and how big the publisher is, as different resources can be allocated. So say some AAA title has a new patch, there will be extra servers and bandwidth available on patch day, whereas a smaller game might not get this.

As pointed out above, ping times mean very little, as it's between you and the device you're pinging. A ping consists of a few bytes and usually only a few packets, so it's not indication of speed. However, it's an indication on response time when you're playing online games. Packet loss is another indicator here and it's something you don't want, as it suggests there's an issue between you and the other server.

As for MTU, the answer above is somewhat flawed. However, 1500 is a standard value on almost all devices today and unless you're running a 5 or 10Gbps network, it doesn't need to be changed. Larger MTU sizes are in general referred to a Jumbo frames and are often at an MTU size of 9000. You should configure all Ethernet devices on the network to use the same MTU size. A larger MTU size allows for more data to be sent per packet and is slightly more efficient, but it's actually not part of the Ethernet standard.

 

[windwhirl]

As for MTU, the answer above is wrong.

What part of it was wrong? Genuinely asking.

 

[TheLostSwede]

What part of it was wrong? Genuinely asking.

For starters, the max value isn't 1500, as it goes to 9k and change.
Technically 1500 has been the standard for at least a decade now and should work just fine in most circumstances.
I also don't understand what a speed under 2mbps has to do with MTU size. The only time it would be anything slightly lower than 1500 today could be for PPPoE connections, but they start at 256kbps, maybe even lower if you're unlucky and have a poor xDSL service.
Wrong was maybe a bit harsh, but the number matters, as you can't just throw in anything random there and hope it works.

 

[windwhirl]

For starters, the max value isn't 1500, as it goes to 9k and change.
Technically 1500 has been the standard for at least a decade now and should work just fine in most circumstances.

Ah, understood. Though, just for the extra clarification, I understood that it was a limit (well, more like a standard value now) imposed by the Ethernet frame?

I also don't understand what a speed under 2mbps has to do with MTU size. The only time it would be anything slightly lower than 1500 today could be for PPPoE connections, but they start at 256kbps, maybe even lower if you're unlucky and have a poor xDSL service.

Way back (when I wasn't even a teenager, so almost 15 years ago) I had read somewhere on the Internet (I think it was some forum about ADSL? probably defunct at this point) that MTU was recommended to be set at 1500 for broadband. When I looked that up in those days, broadband was understood as at least 2 mbps downstream.

Wrong was maybe a bit harsh, but the number matters, as you can't just throw in anything random the and hope it works.

It's fine. It served as a refresher

 

[TheLostSwede]

The value is actually how many bytes of data you're sending per Ethernet frame, so 1500 bytes plus overheads. I don't know why 1500 bytes was decided as the standard value, but I'm guessing it had something to do with buffer sizes on NICs.
These days a lot of this stuff is kind of irrelevant on PCs, as they're so fast and can handle that little extra data without breaking a sweat, plus modern NICs are offloading most of the processing needed to be done.
A larger MTU sounds like it would make more sense, but if you have a flaky connection, you're also going to have to resend more data, which is why it's a bad idea to use a larger MTU size over WAN.

I should also clarify my point above about all LAN devices should use the same MTU size, the router can obviously have a different WAN side MTU size, if needed.
I use Jumbo frames on my LAN, simply because I use 10Gbps Ethernet between my PC and NAS. I also have a basic managed switch that does Jumbo frames. Not sure if it really makes any difference though, but it's meant to lower the packet overheads a bit.

My first ADSL connection was only 512/512Kbps and it was considered broadband back then. I guess that's nearly 20 years ago though... Ugh...

 

[ixi]

And here I'm sitting with 1Gb/s link and don't have problem with download through steam, rockstar launcher or battlenet. At least it was like 6 months ago because right now I don't have pc, sold mine in summer in hopes to get new gpu un cpu, yeah lucky me.

First of, in that launcher can you change download server? Maybe you have chosen or it did by default far, far away location... if you try to download from steam or some other launcher, do you get better speeds? Maybe bestheda launcher is crappy crap tank.

Speedtest by default uses closest server with smallest ms.

ISP can give you burst for specific hosts/time.

Your traffic going into internet can go through many isp providers and their switches. Maybe somewhere there is faulty link or full capacity.

MTU can play a role here too, but it is easy to check. If you can ping for example 1.1.1.1 with 1500 MTU, do not fragment then everything is ok.

Funny or not, there have been rare cases when just simply changing dns server it helps you to get better speeds for some specific servers. I guess those programs just use dns resolver for servers.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Stream really depends on the game. The other night I was getting extremely slow updated for a few smaller games I have, even after a few minutes. It's unusual I'll admit, but it clearly happens.

Steam actually has a map where you can see what the average download speed are https://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/

As I also mentioned, downloads on launch day can be slow, especially if you live in an area where a certain game is really popular as well. I'm sure even you must've experienced that at times?

The whole ISP bandwidth shaping thing is nasty and ends up in the same category as data caps in my book.

 

[ixi]

Stream really depends on the game. The other night I was getting extremely slow updated for a few smaller games I have, even after a few minutes. It's unusual I'll admit, but it clearly happens.

Steam actually has a map where you can see what the average download speed are https://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/

A
The whole ISP bandwidth shaping thing is nasty and ends up in the same category as data caps in my book.

Bandwidth throttling is required from ISP side. You have agreement with client for 100Mb/s up and down. In whole line to customer end isp has 1Gb/s lines. Without shape customer will be free to use 1Gb/s speeds. He will get 10 times bigger speed thank in was agreed to. And that is not a good idea, because if every clients would be installed this way, they would go full throttle or just wouldnt make enough money for them self to survive. Client pays for 100Mb/s while actually using 1Gb/s.



Burst is good thing as well, because it gives you more bandwidth for specific time. From 1 sec up to even minutes. Depends on configuration from ISP. Life scenario, client has 5Mb/s.

Isp gives him burst up to 10Mb/s for 10 seconds. With these 10Mb/s heavy websites will load faster than with 5Mb/s.

If isp gives you burst that is great but then after burst period they throttle you down under agreement speed that is not nice and should be dealt with.

I have configurated many sites with L2 or L3 services. Always for L3 I do shape with agreement speeds and give burst from 10 up to 30 sec.

If connection line is 10Mb/s then usually
put burst from 12-15Mb/s (depends on mood, haha) for few seconds and after that time it limits back to 10Mb/s.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Bandwidth throttling is required from ISP side. You have agreement with client for 100Mb/s up and down. In whole line to customer end isp has 1Gb/s lines. Without shape customer will be free to use 1Gb/s speeds. He will get 10 times bigger speed thank in was agreed to. And that is not a good idea, because if every clients would be installed this way, they would go full throttle or just wouldnt make enough money for them self to survive. Client pays for 100Mb/s while actually using 1Gb/s.



Burst is good thing as well, because it gives you more bandwidth for specific time. From 1 sec up to even minutes. Depends on configuration from ISP. Life scenario, client has 5Mb/s.

Isp gives him burst up to 10Mb/s for 10 seconds. With these 10Mb/s heavy websites will load faster than with 5Mb/s.

If isp gives you burst that is great but then after burst period they throttle you down under agreement speed that is not nice and should be dealt with.

I have configurated many sites with L2 or L3 services. Always for L3 I do shape with agreement speeds and give burst from 10 up to 30 sec.

If connection line is 10Mb/s then usually
put burst from 12-15Mb/s (depends on mood, haha) for few seconds and after that time it limits back to 10Mb/s.

That sounds like the pre-Xfinity days!
Also, I never caught the locally owned ISP I have throttling when downloading with Steam. I have FTTH. FTTH, FTW!

 

[fullinfusion]

OP you need to do what I did and call you ISP every day and say WTF is going on?

I had issues and in my area and I'm the only one that has the speed cranked up over the others within this area, so technically I should get priority... And I do! I do NOW!

It turned out that the amplifier and node was causing the issue and it took them a few weeks to trouble shoot the issue but now I actually get what I pay for.

Just keep raising hell with you ISP and tell them your sick of their shit, and you want not a servive guy to come out, but rather a maintenance guy that climbs up n down the polls and checks switches and amp's and nodes in your area. He's the guy that can figure shit out.. The dude that comes to your home with his meter is basically a McDonalds drive through dude... They can pour a coffee and that's about it!

 

[TheLostSwede]

Bandwidth throttling is required from ISP side. You have agreement with client for 100Mb/s up and down. In whole line to customer end isp has 1Gb/s lines. Without shape customer will be free to use 1Gb/s speeds. He will get 10 times bigger speed thank in was agreed to. And that is not a good idea, because if every clients would be installed this way, they would go full throttle or just wouldnt make enough money for them self to survive. Client pays for 100Mb/s while actually using 1Gb/s.



Burst is good thing as well, because it gives you more bandwidth for specific time. From 1 sec up to even minutes. Depends on configuration from ISP. Life scenario, client has 5Mb/s.

Isp gives him burst up to 10Mb/s for 10 seconds. With these 10Mb/s heavy websites will load faster than with 5Mb/s.

If isp gives you burst that is great but then after burst period they throttle you down under agreement speed that is not nice and should be dealt with.

I have configurated many sites with L2 or L3 services. Always for L3 I do shape with agreement speeds and give burst from 10 up to 30 sec.

If connection line is 10Mb/s then usually
put burst from 12-15Mb/s (depends on mood, haha) for few seconds and after that time it limits back to 10Mb/s.

Not what I was talking about. I guess you've missed the fact that some US ISPs have special agreements with certain service providers that get a "fast lane" in their network, whereas those unwilling to pay, end up with slower speeds through their network.
This might also be what's happening to the OP.

Just realised something, you can do a traceroute to for example steam to see how far from the servers you are. Turns out I'm on the same "trunk" network as the local steam server.
Origin on the other had is handles by some local Akamai setup and Battle.net appears to have their servers in Korea.