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1Kurgan1

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And now this thing with WoW? What the hell?
Thats your problem right there, don't ever use WoW as a benchmark. I haven't ever got good FPS in that game while in a raid setting, and I have always ran setup better than 99.9% of average WoW players. The game is optimized for crap computer, once you stretch the settings, it just destroys as it's not meant to be ran like that.

Console vs PC is a stale debate. I could care less.
I wouldn't call it a debate, the debate is on preference. The discussion is on fact. Mouse + Keyboard > Controller for FPS, Controller > Mouse+KB for racing and fighting. Computer > Console in Graphics. Computer > Console in innovation. Computer > Console in Utility.
 

Mussels

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CDdude55

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If it changed as much as you say it has then why did DICE port down to the console? Why did Carmack say it was a huge mistake to develop for the console first and port up and that next time for the good of the industry hes going to port down.

Listen the developers are waking up to the fact consoles are starving innovation. Get used to it. PC gaming is just as big as it ever was. Maybe bigger. You are stuck with hardware dated from 2003.....and will have to deal with it even longer. Consoles better change generations and fast because innovation won't wait on them anymore. You are gonna have to get used to PC table scraps......like BF3.
DICE ported down to Consoles because if they didn't people who start crying about how they ditched their fans, since the BF franchise was only on PC for a long time, they know the fanbase they've built up so they pretty much have to develop on PC first.

And i disagree, PC's best years were in the 90's when internet connectivity in gaming as well as innovative games like Quake, DOOM, Wolfenstien, Duke Nukem, Half-Life, Counter-stirke, Deus Ex (was 2000, but close lol) etc made their debut, the console generation after the 1990's is when consoles got into the online arena and slowly more people started focusing on the platfrom, and as it grew, more money came with it.

Consoles have never been about the hardware, they just develop what is close to good at the period in time and then developers created games with great looking engines wrapped around it to run on them, and that has been successful, just look at Dead Space 2, Uncharted, Gears, L.A. Noire etc, consoles will always be the more successful gaming platform because of it's mainstream appeal and their ability to run beautiful engines (yes, in a water down manner, but that's missing the point of their existence if that's you're issue with the platform).

For gaming, i enjoy both platforms, granted i do play PC a lot more.
 
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I am and things are smooth at ultra, but I do get some dips. I imagine some of it is due to drivers and an unfinished beta code, a lot of it seems to be server lag.
It may have been the server I was on. Seemed to work much nicer today but there is a definite difference in smoothness between all settings on MED and all on High.

I was crouching (cowering) in a building today and the mobile AA knew I was there and was spraying the inside of the building with AA, friggin awesome!! There was smoke and red flashes and sparks and shit flying everywhere, I was actually scared!! Lol.

CB is a wicked level!! :rockout:
 
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Thats your problem right there, don't ever use WoW as a benchmark. I haven't ever got good FPS in that game while in a raid setting, and I have always ran setup better than 99.9% of average WoW players. The game is optimized for crap computer, once you stretch the settings, it just destroys as it's not meant to be ran like that.



I wouldn't call it a debate, the debate is on preference. The discussion is on fact. Mouse + Keyboard > Controller for FPS, Controller > Mouse+KB for racing and fighting. Computer > Console in Graphics. Computer > Console in innovation. Computer > Console in Utility.
As Obi-wan said, "It is a more elegant weapon from a more civilized age." Mouse and keyboard = lightsabers, and game controllers = blasters.
PC users are Jedi knights, and console gamers are just dirty space vagrants. :D
 

Raijian

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Thats your problem right there, don't ever use WoW as a benchmark. I haven't ever got good FPS in that game while in a raid setting, and I have always ran setup better than 99.9% of average WoW players. The game is optimized for crap computer, once you stretch the settings, it just destroys as it's not meant to be ran like that.
I wasn't using WoW as a benchmark, but it did start acting strange, like when I minimized everything would flash blue and lines would go across my screen quickly and then sometimes when I minimize and go back into WoW after browsing the web or whatever my fps drops to under 10 until I restart the client.

This has never happened before. I'm also seeing extreme pop ins in BF3 like in the distance, rocks and mountains and just basically everything, is twitching and flashing and stuff.

Makes me think it's not the beta, because I've heard nothing but "I run it on ultra with half your hardware specs and it's 60 frames constantly.".

BF3 will run great for 10 minutes, but then every 15 seconds my fps goes from 45-60 to about 15 for 5 seconds and then back to normal for 15 or so seconds, and then again for 5 down to 15 fps.

Checked my temps, my primary card was 79*F when that was happening, secondary card was only 50*F.

CPU not overclocked.

Hmm.
 
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CPU not overclocked.
That's going to be a big problem for your crossfire, not just in this beta, but in everything. 3.2 on a Thuban will have troubles feeding two 5870s.
 

brandonwh64

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I just flew some jets around and killed like three tanks until I got shot out of the sky by another jet LOL
 
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Yeah OC that Thuban wtf

Edit: Speaking of combat in the real world--just saw a good and interesting news story on the present day 101st Airborne Division E Company in Afghanistan. "Easy Company--The Band Of Brothers".

They walk everywhere--thousands and thousands of miles so far--in order to avoid roadside bombs. Can't spot those fuckers.
 
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Raijian

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I can't on stock cooling. I need a zalman cooler first and maybe I'll put it at 3.4ghz but with my luck it would cause my computer and everything I own to set fire.
 
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I just flew some jets around and killed like three tanks until I got shot out of the sky by another jet LOL
What were you using to fly? I figured out how to fix the inverted controlls and even how to use my 360 controller but I couldnt kill anything.

I even tried flying the RU attack heli with a mouse and I was fucking useless. Personally the choppers feel like complete shit compared to BC2.
 

1Kurgan1

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I can't on stock cooling. I need a zalman cooler first and maybe I'll put it at 3.4ghz but with my luck it would cause my computer and everything I own to set fire.
hogwash. I ran my 1055t on the stock cooler at 3.9ghz for like 4 months, was also running stock voltage. If you have to bump the voltage, then you will need to start looking at other cooling options. But you should be able to to 3.5 or 3.6ghz easily.
 

Raijian

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I've never overclocked before. It seems like such a long and time consuming process. Ever guide I read is like a novella of warnings and unless it's easy I don't think I can do it.
 

CDdude55

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I can't on stock cooling. I need a zalman cooler first and maybe I'll put it at 3.4ghz but with my luck it would cause my computer and everything I own to set fire.
A 200 MHz increase will not do anything to help performance nor will it set anything on fire, it depends on your budget, but if you plan on playing with the voltages a bit i would recommend something like a Corsair H70/H50(ive had a 3.6GHz Core i7 920 on both of these and they're great) or pretty much any heatsink from Noctua, Prolimatech if your budget is limited then a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is a great little heatsink especially for overclocks without a voltage increase, it should get you up a fair amount, if you really want to see a performance difference, you should push that chip to at least 3.6GHz and up and that will take a better heatsink (if your chip needs higher volts that is, as some people can get really high in speed without much if any of a voltage change)

Don't worry about setting anything on fire specially since modern CPU's have overvolting/overheating protection and will shut down if the temperature threshold is met, just take your time and maybe read some articles on proper overclocking.
 
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http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/d/dd/Riker-Australopithecine.jpg

listen, Carmack shipping Rage in the condition it's in after 6 years of development should be ashamed of himself.
All iD games come out and are patched soon after. Doesn't matter how many years its been in development. Some problems will only show themselves after being in the "wild". FYI RAGE has already been patched and is working flawlessly for the PC and its development was an after thought.
 
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A 200 MHz increase will not do anything to help performance nor will it set anything on fire, it depends on your budget, but if you plan on playing with the voltages a bit i would recommend something like a Corsair H70/H50(ive had a 3.6GHz Core i7 920 on both of these and they're great) or pretty much any heatsink from Noctua, Prolimatech if your budget is limited then a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is a great little heatsink especially for overclocks without a voltage increase, it should get you up a fair amount, if you really want to see a performance difference, you should push that chip to at least 3.6GHz and up and that will take a better heatsink (if your chip needs higher volts that is, as some people can get really high in speed without much if any of a voltage change)

Don't worry about setting anything on fire specially since modern CPU's have overvolting/overheating protection and will shut down if the temperature threshold is met, just take your time and maybe read some articles on proper overclocking.
Why does he need to OC anyway? I'm running my i7 at stock and FPS has never went below 59 in BF3.

If he has problems, it must be driver related.
 
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DICE ported down to Consoles because if they didn't people who start crying about how they ditched their fans, since the BF franchise was only on PC for a long time, they know the fanbase they've built up so they pretty much have to develop on PC first.
Money talks. BS walks. They didn't have to do anything for the PC first because of two reasons.

1. BF3 WILL SELL MORE ON THE CONSOLE no matter how its developed. Crying or not PC gamers would have still bought BF3 no matter what. Want proof?



As you can see all the crying in the world makes no difference. DICE knows this and you know what? They STILL decided to make it for the PC first? Why because they still care about the game. They know if they really do make the best game they can make it will sell. EVERYWHERE. PC and console. They also know making the best game they can takes better hardware then the consoles can produce. This is why DICE made it for the PC. Not because they were afraid of crying.

2. Consoles have ALWAYS been the better selling platform. Always. However to say they never tout being "cutting edge" is naive. Don't you remember the 8-bit vs 16-bit arguments? Nintendo had the N64 (duel 32 bit processors)? Always trying to one up the last gen? Hell you hear console kiddies trash the Wii constantly for its bad graphics but when a PC user trashes them they say "its about the games" or "we have better sales". When you call them on the fact the Wii has better sales they say it has trashy games.....sales (their own argument) deny this. Its hypocritical.

The end of the story is this.....

Current console development is killing gaming innovation. Its killing gaming period. You say that the golden age of PC gaming was the INTERNET revolution because of INNOVATION. You are right. Why? Because innovation is what pushes the industry. Not cash cow sequels and established formulas (hack and slash, FPS). PC has always been cutting edge and should always be used first to push the boundaries. Thats what gives us greatness. Not milking old hardware and regurgitated formulas.

Want more proof? Wii. They took something like motion detection and blitzed the whole industry. Why? Because THEY WERE INNOVATIVE! Its about pushing the boundaries. Always has been. Its when we stop that we all suffer.
 

Raijian

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A 200 MHz increase will not do anything to help performance nor will it set anything on fire, it depends on your budget, but if you plan on playing with the voltages a bit i would recommend something like a Corsair H70/H50(ive had a 3.6GHz Core i7 920 on both of these and they're great) or pretty much any heatsink from Noctua, Prolimatech if your budget is limited then a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is a great little heatsink especially for overclocks without a voltage increase, it should get you up a fair amount, if you really want to see a performance difference, you should push that chip to at least 3.6GHz and up and that will take a better heatsink (if your chip needs higher volts that is, as some people can get really high in speed without much if any of a voltage change)

Don't worry about setting anything on fire specially since modern CPU's have overvolting/overheating protection and will shut down if the temperature threshold is met, just take your time and maybe read some articles on proper overclocking.

Thanks. I'm beginning to get frustrated and it's really tiring. I thought that adding this second 5870 to my set up would do wonders, but it's making things run worse and I'm seeing flickering textures and odd lines sometimes and it's just throwing my pc mojo off. I don't even know if getting an aftermarket heatsink and overclocking will do anything. I feel like if I do it nothing will change, but I want to get the maximum performance out of this system. On top of all this negative feeling towards my rig, my father just built himself a new i7 2600k, evga 580 build and it out performs my rig which has more video memory, ram and more cores with equal processing speed.

I don't get it.. is it just my system? Is it amd? Is this why everybody hates amd products? Seems like I'm never happy with my rig, just frustrated or always buying something to upgrade it in hopes that it will work better.
 
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Thanks. I'm beginning to get frustrated and it's really tiring. I thought that adding this second 5870 to my set up would do wonders, but it's making things run worse and I'm seeing flickering textures and odd lines sometimes and it's just throwing my pc mojo off. I don't even know if getting an aftermarket heatsink and overclocking will do anything. I feel like if I do it nothing will change, but I want to get the maximum performance out of this system. On top of all this negative feeling towards my rig, my father just built himself a new i7 2600k, evga 580 build and it out performs my rig which has more video memory, ram and more cores with equal processing speed.

I don't get it.. is it just my system? Is it amd? Is this why everybody hates amd products? Seems like I'm never happy with my rig, just frustrated or always buying something to upgrade it in hopes that it will work better.
Wait for the final game before trashing your system. I too with my two 5870s get texture flicker and random white lines across the screen. It's a Beta so I'm not worried at all.

Did you ever get your bsod fixed? I found that even with my 5870s overclocked that BF3 stresses them more then any other game that I own (even Crysis). If the clocks are too high the game will lock up on you.
 

Raijian

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Yeah, I fixed the BSOD by using the preview drivers instead of the 11.9 WHQL drivers.

I auto tuned my graphics cards in CCC, and it overclocked them almost all the way... should I not do that?

Also, yeah, the flickering and white lines... soo annoying. I'm hoping it's just the beta, but then I look over across the room (i'm lanning with my father) and he's playing BF3 and it runs FLAWLESSLY and there is none of this flickering/stuttering.

I'm hoping that it's just the beta. I know it's stupid to judge it but after hearing everybody having positive performance with it and seeing it first hand on a machine that is technically inferior I think? It just confuses me and turns me off.


Edit: I just tried out crysis 2 to see if my system is performing okay, ran it on hardcore at native res with at least 60 fps+ but it looked more like 120.. but I know that Crysis 2 isn't very demanding. I just thought maybe my graphics cards were broken so I ran a quick test to see.. but they seem to be working okay :s
 

1Kurgan1

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I've never overclocked before. It seems like such a long and time consuming process. Ever guide I read is like a novella of warnings and unless it's easy I don't think I can do it.
Well thats the bonus to getting a Black Edition. It's extremely easy, takes about 5 seconds to do. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn more about it so you know about voltage adjustments and such. But a 2 or 3 bump up in the multiplier should be fine.

Why does he need to OC anyway? I'm running my i7 at stock and FPS has never went below 59 in BF3.

If he has problems, it must be driver related.
The 920 is a good comparison for a 1090, the 950 is a good amount faster. Also running dual cards compared to one could create a bottleneck.
 

Raijian

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Yeah, well I'm studying electronics engineering. It's probably right up my alley; I've just never taken the time to try it. Does it really increase performance? If I went from 3.2ghz to 3.9ghz, what would that take to keep it cool? What would that do to my performance?
 

cadaveca

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Well thats the bonus to getting a Black Edition. It's extremely easy, takes about 5 seconds to do. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn more about it so you know about voltage adjustments and such. But a 2 or 3 bump up in the multiplier should be fine.



The 920 is a good comparison for a 1090, the 950 is a good amount faster. Also running dual cards compared to one could create a bottleneck.
Not all chips clock easily. My 1100T has a default voltage of 1.425v, needs a boost for 3.5GHz.

We were talking about htis yesterday on the TS while playing...erocker had a killer chip, i think he said 1.225v stock. That's a .2v difference between his and mine, for STOCK!! And mine doesn't clock on the stock cooler very good, either. I need 1.575 for 4GHz. But, it scales EXCELLENTLY under cold, my chip.


Your comment aobut bottleneck though...running dual cards or even more GPUs, really needs alot of memory bandwidth. He might jsut get better results with a memory controller overclock, to say, like 2800MHz.

Ye, Raijan, it can increase performance. Hoever, the gains will be limited due to design of the chip. Quite a few of us that play BF-games regularily have gone from AMD to Intel, Thuban to Sandybridge, and even singlecard performance nearly doubles making the platform change. And it's not like SB is all that differnt from the earlier i5/i7 chips...it's all about the memory controller being wicked fast in SB.
 
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You should push your CPU to at least 3.6 ghz if you have crossfire. The Phenom CPUs hit a sweetspot @ 3.6, and you notice a slight improvement every 400mhz or so.

Also, try to raise the NB and Hypertransport to 2.4ghz or higher. That is a key component of a smooth AMD overclock.

Overclocking is only difficult the first time. It's more tedious and time consuming than difficult. Lots of trial and error.
But once you get the hang of it, it's a breeze.
Also, overclocking is no longer the realm of PC wizards. It is extremely easy these days. Just head over to the overclocking forums, theres tons of guides.
 

Raijian

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It's probably not worth reading up on and trying until I get an aftermarket heatsink, but I'll bookmark it for now! Thanks.
 
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