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Battlefield 3 Clubhouse

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Frick

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WTF? I see a guy playing BC2 (I have no sound at work) and from what I can tell he's hacking or the hit boxes are way off? How in the heck is he shooting people in the ass and killing them in one shot?
Asshot. They should totally add that in BF3, with that Quake-guy saying "asshot". :laugh:
 
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Up here, anything shot in the ass (very poor job) is referred to as a "Texas heart shot." :laugh:
 

InnocentCriminal

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Asshot. They should totally add that in BF3, with that Quake-guy saying "asshot". :laugh:

I'm really glad they're not.

:D
 
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LOL, I want this game NOW!
 
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So is this game going to make full use of a nice rig or is it going to be a lame console port :confused: Surely DICE will be thinking of the PC gamer with this title?
Welcome as you're obviously new here. Nope this game will be as PC-centric and PC-superior as anything we can hope for in this day and age starting with 64 players as opposed to 24 on consoles. Note I said starting with...
 

1Kurgan1

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Dont add Marineborn to the clubhouse, he's a noob.
 
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you didnt even add me mailman the original battlefield player i was playing battlefields before the stupid fucking console made it popular, i date back to the testing of 1942, BOIZ!!! anyhow add me up, lol
 
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^ Defensive much? :p
 
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Add me also:rockout:
 

cyriene

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Benchmark Scores I should run some of these sometime...
I just pre-ordered from Amazon. Looks great, can't wait to play it.
 
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InnocentCriminal

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Well that's part II sorted.

;)
 
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Techland interview with Patrcik Bach: Battlefield 3' Producer: 'Controversy Is Not a Mature Way to Sell a Game'

By Evan Narcisse on March 4, 2011

EA's hoping to storm to the top of the modern military FPS heap with Battlefield 3, ending Call of Duty's recent reign as the number one shooter franchise. The man leading the charge at the DICE development studio making the game is executive producer Patrick Bach. Bach's been at DICE for nine years and spoke with me about what DICE hopes to achieve with BF3, the tech powering it and how it won't be like other shooter games set in the present-day.

So, you guys are unveiling Battlefield 3 for the first time this week. Talk about why this entry is being seen as the next chapter of the mothership as opposed to a Bad Company game or a kind of tertiary branch of the Battlefield franchises. What do you feel has changed in the first-person shooter field since BF2?

First of all the biggest focus of ours is mindset going back to the roots rather than iterate on the games that we have. So going back and looking at what the BF community did and liked with Battlefield 2, I think is a very important thing. You can see the prone position as a symbol for added complexity to the game. It's not run-and-gun. But, with complexity, I don't think it's harder to play, it's just that there's more depth in the core Battlefield games than there was in Bad Company. But Bad Company was supposed to be a console-only game from the start. Bad Company 1 was only for the consoles. That was our kind of spinoff console franchise while the core was still on PC. So, looking back at the original community and then marry that with the community with the Bad Company series, we can see that there's a lot of potential to serve both communities in BF3.

Right. Something that brings in bridges the gap.

Yeah. We take the best of both worlds, of course, but having the springboard being Battlefield 2. And your second question was how the first-person shooter has changed lately. We haven't really seen it move forward that much. It's been kind of more of the same. They forget about the nuts and bolts. Great graphics or technical excellence might be the reason why they bought it, but in the end it's the experience you have every time you play the game. A lot of people have their own war stories where they did this cool thing, and then someone did this, and then they countered with that. And then my squad came in and helped me. Then we won. Everyone has their personal war story to tell with the Battlefield games.

But that kind of experience is always emergent, right?

Yeah.

It's always player-based and random in a way that you as developers can't script yet. But it seems like you're trying to deliver that same energy into single-player mode, at least from what you've shown.

Yeah.

Can you talk about how that emergent multiplayer chaos can feed into a script with single-player experience?

That was actually the original intent when we built the first Bad Company. Because that was the first single-player focused Battlefield game. "How can we transform these stories of the battlefield into a coherent experience where everyone can more or less try it out and see?" Then, when you go online you can actually start playing with it and enjoy it. In general, our motto is more or less to have single-player being, first of all, an experience where you can try everything out before you go online.

There's actually a lot of people that are scared of going online because they think they will just get owned which they do. But today at least have a chance to try the game on safer grounds and try out all the guns in a more controlled environment.

You talked about the Frostbite 2 engine. And it seems like you guys built it with the end experience of great lighting, massive destructibility and scalability in mind. Can you talk about what the goals were?

I think the big point with building your own engine is that you don't have to find the best engine that someone else made. You can actually decide what is it that need to achieve and then you build the engine to fit. And since we have so much experience in building Battlefield games we know how to build that core engine and we know what we need to improve on to move forward.

And then looking at what first-person shooters should be rather than what they are. I think we are trying to be the first ones to actually move into the next generation where you can actually experience a different game rather than just having developers say, "Oh, we'll have more polygons."

What are the experimental components that are going to be different? You talk about better graphics, better lighting, the HDR sound. What goes into building those without like talking about the game specifically?

I think in general it's back to starting with the end experience: What is that you want to achieve? And then reverse-engineer that into something that is doable. Because you can always claim, "If I only had like 15 years to build an engine, this would have been the ultimate thing." So this is a big step for us to be able to actually build a game that looks like this.

First thing that struck me was how the demo showed the player going from the parking lot through the air vent and back out to another big street skirmish. What's the inspiration for that? Obviously, you want to have different environments to keep the player engaged. Was anything else at work that made that widening/narrowing be a design pillar?

Variation is something that's key to player experience. Because some games when it turn into a repetitive shooter, you do the same thing, over, and over, and over again, and the environment is more or less like a backdrop. It's supposed be like, "Oh, now we're here and now we're here." But the world doesn't really change, it's just the textures covering the world that change.

With us, the constant surprise of multiplayer inspires us again with all the variation. We want players to be able to think, "Today I will go silent. I will try to sneak around and do things this way. Or I'll go super loud, I'll pick up a tank and I'll just go charging in." We want to take that mentality and feed that into more areas.

What other areas?

For instance, sound and graphics. One of the goals with the demo you saw was actually to prove that we can go from a dark indoor environment that is super tight, almost claustrophobic and then seamlessly go out into a huge, big, bright, open with loads of things going on. Loads of bullets. Loads of soldiers. And do that completely seamlessly, because most games would have a kind of loading point.

Right, like something on screen that hides the buffer. Yeah.

Yeah, you can buffer loading and stream things in or out, and we do that on the fly. The reason for that is wanting to make the player feel more immersed in the world.So our biggest challenge right now is what do we want? Rather than can we build it?

It sounds like one of the design points of the game is that you're talking about it as if you want the experience of playing the game to surprise you in the same way that playing against other people would.

Yep.

That's quite a lofty goal. Talking about the multiplayer, which is obviously coming. Is a big hallmark for you guys. Can we expect the usual pillars? A lot of vehicles. Letting players jump in and jump out. A broad range of classes and stuff like that. How much are you guys talking about that at this point?

We're not talking details at all really. But the whole mentality is exactly what you said. I'm trying to convince people that you don't have to worry about our multiplayer. That doesn't mean I won't change stuff or add stuff. It's more about what we call the sport of Battlefield.

You can't change the rule set. Tennis is tennis. You can't just change the rules from one day to another because people are bored. For us, it's super important to make sure it's how you play tennis rather than what tennis is nothing you can focus on.

It's how can we improve on the Battlefield experience rather than how can we change the Battlefield experience. Because as a core idea, the Battlefield experience is a brilliant concept. We just need to make sure that it becomes more vivid and a smoother experience where you can experience even cooler things.

The demo you guys show ended with an earthquake. Now is that a chicken and an egg scenario where you guys decided 'We want destruction,' then had it built into the game? Or was that a story point before the engine was built?

Yeah. It's actually a story point before anything. I won't go into what the story is right now. But it's one big chain-reaction event in the story that tosses things around, which turns into what the game is all about. So that was more of, "Oh, we want an earthquake. Could we possibly build that?" So we had to come up with all this crazy stuff to be able to create that sequence. Of course, we used the Frostbite 2 engine to do it. And we had to do some extra work on the engine to get that going.

The top FPSes over the last couple of years–Call Of Duty: Black Ops, Medal of Honor and Bad Company 2–have all seemed really tethered to the mundane. Not that the play experience is mundane, but more like they're done in an almost documentary style. Why do you think there's such a focus on that right now? Because DICE has done Battlefield 2142, which is a far-future sci-fi…

And we've done the WWII games as well. If you look at the core game as a sport again, for us it doesn't really change the core game, what setting you're in. But I think the contemporary world of what you watch on TV is very attractive to a lot of people. They get really attached to it. They can recognize the guns. They can recognize the vehicles. They could connect to the situation in a way that might be harder with sci-fi like shooter.

But I still think there's room for both. And I'm not trying to say that this is the only way to do it. Because we just did Bad Company 2: Vietnam, which we think is an awesome setting to have a first-person shooter in.

You're treating the time periods like a palette of colors…

Yeah, it's more, again, what is the flavor you want today. It's not 'how do we change the game?' So even we get fed up with stuff sometimes. That's why we did the Vietnam DLC.

Still, you set a game in a hotspot area on the Iran/Iraq border. Medal of Honor got into some trouble with that kind of thing last year and even Black Ops caught some heat with the Castro assassination mission. Do you think there'll be a controversy surrounding your game?

The point isn't to be controversial. Some connection to reality is important but, even as you're referencing reality, you can still do a what-if scenario. We believe we can create a more grown-up experience than our competition. We can do more with character drama and player expectations than is presently being done. Controversy is not a mature way to sell a game. You still want to be proud at the end of the day.

So basically you guys see BF3 as a transitional game?

Well, it's a transitional game in the sense that I think we will see a lot of games trying to copy us from where we are because they will see that, oh, wait a minute, you can do it differently. It's not just about fixing one thing, it's about fixing the experience.

It's creating a new groundwork to move forward. Rather than just doing it, take your old engine, do a new story, and ship a new game.

The model that you're talking about with Battlefield 3 is building new technology from scratch. This is a very different model than what Activision uses for Call of Duty where they're going to rotate talent in and out of the franchise every year. Do you feel like there is something categorically wrong with that approach?

I think what you might end up doing is losing what made it good from the start. You're diluting the core idea. One, you're trying to build it on the same core but you're using different people at a time. With us at DICE, again, it's the same people building this game that built Battlefield 1942.

So, there are some core ideas that people still think we can do better. Then, on top of that we add the new talent to expand and grow in different directions so we just try to kill our weak spots. Because we know we have some pretty decent peaks. It's just killing your weak spots, making sure that we create that coherent experience.

You keep talking about the core design ideas of Battlefield. Can you explicitly state them just so it's clear? I know I said something before about...

It's the whole balancing of rock, paper, scissors, where there's always a counter to whatever. If you have a big gun, I can get a tank. If I have a tank you can get a gun that takes out tanks. There's always a counter for whatever tactics you're using. It's just a question of, if you pulled a rock, I would pull...

You still have to acquire the scissors.

Yeah. You will get beaten once but once you get back in you can find new strategies. You always have to be flexible. And that creates a very vivid and living battle. You can play the same map twice in order to complete the games because people change the way they play.
 
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I frapsed it so if anyone wants the file send me a pm.
 
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GameInformer - Talking Battlefield 3 Multiplayer

by Matt Bertz on March 04, 2011 at 07:00 AM

Though we didn’t see any multiplayer in action during our cover story visit to DICE, that didn’t stop us from prying some revealing answers from executive producer Patrick Bach.

This is an extended version of the interview that ran in the March 2011 issue of Game Informer.

The experienced player understands and appreciates the teamwork concept in Battlefield’s multiplayer, but you often see new players lone wolfing it and missing the point entirely. How do you break through that barrier?
We’ve been asking ourselves that question – why don’t people play it. Because when you’ve put some hours into it it’s like, “this is way better than the competition.” The problem isn’t only on the game side, it’s how do you get to the point where everyone has tried it? Even if you have a demo or you gave away free samples you still need people to try it. The challenge is to get people to try it because we know that they will get hooked when they do. But also on the teamplay aspect it’s a deeper layer that most other shooters don’t have. The hurdle is to make sure that we lower the threshold to get into the game by letting everyone try it out. The running and gunning should be extremely accessible. That’s something we’re working toward with every iteration of the game while deepening the game so once you get hooked, there’s enough depth to play to get people to come back.

Bad Company 2 came out of the gates quickly, placing in the top three on Xbox Live for several months. Then you went six months without delivering new maps and the community fell off drastically. Do you plan on taking a different approach with Battlefield 3?
We have a big focus on sustaining the game. To be honest, Bad Company 2 was a bigger success than we anticipated. We did not account for that. We sold a lot of copies and don’t feel bad about where we were, but looking back, we should have released more, bigger content earlier. The challenge is to build a game, and then have more people coming on before the project is done to start building extra content because it takes a lot of time to get stuff out. Even if you’re done with something it takes another one-to-two months to get it on the net so to speak. We’ve learned our lesson now, and have a lot of really interesting plans for how to keep the attention of the players. We can do better in that area.

One of the things I felt went hand-in-hand with the lack of new maps was that, anecdotally, a lot of people stopped playing around level 25 because there was no longer a carrot dangling in front of them in terms of unlockables. Why did you decide on that approach, and do you plan on altering the progression in Battlefield 3?
It falls back on what I said earlier – we were much more successful with our approach than we anticipated. We didn’t think most people would hit level 22 to be honest, and especially not so fast. Our calculations on how much people would play to hit level 20, 25, 50 were completely wrong. Thought people wouldn’t play that much. We’re looking into the numbers of how we scale up, what we give away, how we give it away, with the understanding that some people put a lot of time into the game. There will be a lot more to unlock, not only weapons and other treats, but we have more things that you can unlock than in Bad Company 2, and we’re also making sure that there is a reason for you to reach the top rank. It doesn’t just end. There will be a lot of focus on persistence and how we present stuff to the player.

One of the things that helps persistence is when you give the player an identity. For instance, you can carve your initials into your gun in Black Ops, and Rainbow Six let you customize your outfit. What are the challenges to this approach and do you see Battlefield 3 going in this direction?
The more variation you have [in the characters] the less variation you can have in the rest of the world. I think it also has to do with the way you play more professionally. You don’t want people to look completely different. It’s team A versus team B. It’s always a challenge – how do you personalize a uniform? Giving the pink rabbit hat to someone would make it fun, but if you’re running around and you don’t know what you’re shooting at you don’t take the professional gaming seriously in my book. So there’s a challenge between personalizing and keeping it uniform. We will do more in that area, making sure that you can get your character to be more personalized both in a visual way and more specifically in the way you gear up. We did a good job I would argue in Bad Company 2 with specializations, different scopes, and different weapons – you can kind of find your way of playing the game, which broadens the game for more people. The deeper you get into that the more you unravel figuring new things out every day. That was kind of the seed to what we’re building now. We now know more than we’ve ever known about how to personalize a uniform team. Your friends will get very happy when they can see what they can do with their soldiers.

When I think about Battlefield 2, I always come back to the Commander position and the game within the game that arose from having Special Forces objectives. Are those returning in the proper sequel?

We could implement it but the question is how do you get the threshold lower? That’s not by making it more complicated. Our challenge is to make sure that anyone that just jumps into the game will get it. One of the biggest problems with Commander was that only two people could use it. Some people liked it but most people didn’t care, they just cared that someone gave them an order or that their squad could play together having fun on their own more or less. Then the more hardcore people went into the Commander mode and learned how to use that. You could argue it was a great feature, but looking at the numbers you could also say that no one uses it. We tried in Bad Company 2 to give that to the players, so you could issue orders to your squad, and you could use gadgets like the UAV that only the commander could use earlier – giving the power back to the players so everyone could use it. That made a big difference. More people could enjoy the game. We lowered the threshold for everyone because we gave it to everyone. We now know where the boundaries are for keeping the strategic depth and complexity while lowering the threshold to get in.

Since Battlefield 2 you’ve toyed with the amount of classes – that game had seven classes, Battlefield 1943 had only three, and Bad Company 2 had four. Do you think you’ve found the sweet spot?
Yes, I think the sweet spot is four. Looking at what we’ve done so far, we see the classes as a starting point. Classes are kind of “Who am I? Well, I’m this kind of person. I want to help out or play in this way.” Then as you go along you will find different nuances of that class. If you look at the amount of classes you actually have in Bad Company 2 with all of the different loadouts, it’s probably a couple of thousand, compared to 1942, which was quite static. So the sweet spot for entry is around four. Then it’s about how much you branch it. It’s a never-ending discussion that’s a matter of what kind of toys you want the player to have and how you balance it out. The rock, paper, scissors theory is still the foundation of every Battlefield game. A lot of people come up to me and say “You should increase the power of that gun, or you should make this gun better, or you should add nukes." The easy response to that is "How is that fun for the person getting shot at?" Because that needs to be the balance – if there’s no counter to a weapon, then we won’t put it in the game. There should always be a way of countering, so then you get this circle of death where if you have the means to kill me, I can switch gear and find means to get back at you. There shouldn’t be any über class or über weapons. Some games have perks where you kill the game by using it, and you do it over and over again. That’s no fun, that’s a game breaker. If someone gets really good at flying a chopper, then people say the chopper is overpowered. No, you just haven’t learned how to counter it, because there is a counter. That’s the kind of depth you want in a Battlefield game. It actually takes time until someone figures it out. We often compare ourselves to sports. You have a game with a set of rules, but there are a million ways of playing that game still even though the rule set is very solid and it hasn’t changed for 100 years. Every game is completely new. There is always a way to counter the opponent. Like football, or basketball, or soccer, the game is always evolving, yet the rules are the same. People adapt and find new ways.

How was hardcore mode received? Was there a broad adoption?
I think it goes in waves, and it’s also about your daily form. How are you playing? How do you feel today? How fast are you? I think the hardcore game mode is a brilliant idea, and we could probably turn it up a notch to make it even more hardcore in the future because people are willing to try it out. It’s the same game, but you turn it up to 11…You want that layer of complexity that you can just add on top of whatever game mode you have. It’s a good way of seeing the same game through a new angle.

It was great to be able to squad up in the pre-game lobby, but limiting it to the four people in one squad was troublesome for larger groups who wanted to play together. Are you changing your approach for Battlefield 3?
Well, yes. It’s actually a very crucial part of the game. We’re thinking a lot about squads and team play – making that even more accessible. Like you said, squads are really easy to set up, but how can you take that further? We have some really cool things that we’ll show later when it comes to dictating how you play with friends.

Call of Duty and Halo both have it, but with the crazy things that happen in Battlefield matches, no game is better suited to having a theater mode. What are you thoughts on that?
We have functionality on our end that can capture movies. The hard part of course is our dedication to creating non-cheatable games contradicts the whole idea of doing that because we are running dedicated servers on everything and that actually makes it harder. We’re definitely looking into ways of delivering our version of this functionality, but I can’t give away any details.

What are your plans for co-op? Will you be able to play through the campaign with friends?
We will have a co-op mode. I won’t go into exact details about if it’s going to be connected to this or that, but we will have a co-op mode in the box.

During the summer you released the one-off Onslaught mode for Bad Company 2. How did you feel it was received?
Okay. Only okay. Onslaught was an experiment on our side to see what we could do with our technology on existing code more or less. There was very little code change to the game because it was more or less supposed to be a little quirky mod for Bad Company 2. It was actually received better than we thought. We now know much better what is needed, and of course we have better tools that are designed to do these things. I can honestly say that we can now do whatever we want to do, and the choices we have made for the game are based on what we want rather than what we have.

One of the more controversial additions to Bad Company 2 was the killcam – snipers especially whined about it. Are you keeping it for Battlefield 3?
We still think that some kind of giveaway camera, no matter what it is, is something that you should be able to have. And you should have the opportunity to turn it off and play a game without it. I think it’s not all bad. And again, if you look at how we reason when we build a game there should always be a way to counter something, and if you’re a good sniper you know that you’re now on camera, which means that you should move.

Jets are coming back in Battlefield 3. How are you dealing with the maps to give them room to maneuver?
We’re building bigger maps. Then again, the games are about fun so if you have a Mach 2 jet on one of our maps you would pass it in 0.2 seconds. You still need to design the game to fit. It can’t be as slow as a chopper, but then again it can’t be Mach 2 so there’s a sweet spot that we’re hitting with map scale, scale of fight, and speed of vehicles so it will actually fit. And of course there should also be a way of countering something.

Prone is coming back as well. Why the change of heart from Bad Company 2, for which you defending your reasoning to leave it out of the game?
First of all, Bad Company 2 was the spin-off. We had our own rule set. This is based on Battlefield 2, so we can go back and look at how can we solve the problem of proning, hiding in high grass, and there are a lot of ways of countering that. Muzzle flash is one of them, vapor traces are another – the bigger the gun the bigger the trace – stuff like that. And of course giving others tools to spot players and give away positions. We have more time to fiddle with those things to make them work. Prone is fun for the person proning. How fun is it to not see someone shooting you? It’s not fun at all. That’s our challenge. That’s our job to design around that and find ways to counter that.

The Bad Company 2 multiplayer maps felt more funneled, then the Vietnam expansion offered more open areas like classic Battlefield games. What approach are you adopting for Battlefield 3?
I’m glad you noticed because that’s actually what we want to do. We want to show people that we can build whatever we want, and if you want to give people variation then you should look at what you just did and then do it slightly different. That’s the motto we use all the time – you pick a map for a reason. You want to play a map for a reason because it gives you variation to gameplay, pacing, flow, action, hotspots, and also how do or don’t you use vehicles on this map.
 
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The maps for BF3 are looking better at least.

I think Oasis CQ is the best map in BC2 from a design standpoint and hope the urban maps have even more non-destructible features (like retaining walls and barriers) with the destructible environment as a compliment to the base design. The trouble with BC2 map design is how quickly infantry combat bogs down because there's little tactical cover, and what cover there is often puts you in a easy spot to be spammed by grenades and rockets.
 

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Thats what I like about BC2, cover is temporary. It really gets annoying when I play Arica or Oasis and all people want to do is hide in buildings and not cap flags, so I have to level every damn building on the map, because as soon as I drop one, they just move to another.
 

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battlefield play4free beta code: 6BQY-TPRF-Y7UH-KNNU
 
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I am glad he is willing to try it, but he has no clue what he is talking about.

he put crysis 2 in the same category as BFBC2, MOH as well.

his controls aren't "tight" because he is on a console.

he want's more run and gun than BFBC2, but that WAS the compromise for DICE I think.

I feel that if he played on PC he would have a totally different perspective.


crysis 2 is stratagy and realistic, I loled.
 
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I am glad he is willing to try it, but he has no clue what he is talking about.

he put crysis 2 in the same category as BFBC2, MOH as well.

his controls aren't "tight" because he is on a console.

he want's more run and gun than BFBC2, but that WAS the compromise for DICE I think.

I feel that if he played on PC he would have a totally different perspective.


crysis 2 is stratagy and realistic, I loled.
I agree. The guy was obviously a console noob.
 
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