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Best Current B die Bins for 3950x 3800mhz CL14

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Hey all,

Like the title suggests I'm looking for current b dies that are most likely to reach 3800mhz CL14. It seems information is either out dated or kind of hard to come by, after much googling. It appears I may have a lucky 3950x bin that is capable of 1900 fclk, so ideally I'd like to run 3800 CL14, although if I was unable to reach this something like 3800 CL16 or 3600/3733 CL14 would make me plenty happy.

Unfortunately I'm making it difficult as I am looking exclusively at 4 x 8gb Trident Z royal kits. Which I know isn't an ideal dim count or price to performance ratio, but that's what I am after. I wouldn't want to overspend too much when one of the lower bins would do the trick.

So far I am primarily looking
-3600 CL14 1.45v Most expensive
-4600 CL18 1.45v Tied for most expensive

-4000 CL17 1.35v Middle of Road

-3600 CL16 1.35v Cheapest
-3200 CL14 1.35v Tied with cheapest

All of these appear to be on my motherboards QVL.


I have also seen 4000 CL15 1.5v, 4400 CL18 1.4v, and 4800 CL18 1.5v but these are even higher priced and my guess is they may not necessarily be any more likely to achieve my desired results. It's worth mentioning that I am very much a novice ram overclocker, I have messed with the DRAM calculator with subtimings and voltages but would not say I'm experienced.

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-Lian LI 011 Dynamic case (12 fans)

Thanks everyone!
 
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This is likely the only kit that's going to 100% do 3800 CL14 the problem is it would cost around $600 for 32GB
the performance gain over a cheaper kit of Bdie isn't going to be worth it imo


This is what I achieved with 2 kits of 3200 CL14 team T force legend.... I could probably push it even lower but cap myself at 1.4v

This kit cost a total of $235 for 4x8GB when I purchased it. I think 4 sticks run around $280 now.

Capture.PNG


20191112_144111.jpg
 
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Ditch B-Die and get these:

 
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Yeah I had seen that 3800 C14, too bad on the price though. I'm also wanting to stick to what I can find in the Royal line, because I have to have shiny things. I suppose the real question is which of the Royal models are most capable or are they all about the same bin and I should just get the cheapest one. I know I'm not guaranteed to get 3800 C14, but I would like to have the best odds. At the very least I would like to have a very strong chance of doing 3800 C16 or 3600/3733 C14. That ballistix is nuts!
 
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Yeah I had seen that 3800 C14, too bad on the price though. I'm also wanting to stick to what I can find in the Royal line, because I have to have shiny things. I suppose the real question is which of the Royal models are most capable or are they all about the same bin and I should just get the cheapest one. I know I'm not guaranteed to get 3800 C14, but I would like to have the best odds. At the very least I would like to have a very strong chance of doing 3800 C16 or 3600/3733 C14. That ballistix is nuts!

I would probably grab the 3600 CL16 variant as once you manually tighten the timings the performance difference will be negligible.... it should still give you a good base to try 3800 CL14 or CL16 if your UMC/IF can handle 1900mhz.

The 2 pricier kits will likely give you a better chance of doing it at lower voltages but again the performance difference will be negligible and you're still in a scenario of can your CPU actually do it.
 
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You might also look to see how 16GB sticks are clocking and just run 2 x 16GB. I only have anecdotal stories from two friends of mine who had good luck running their 32GB sets at 3600 cas 16, so it seems that the bigger sticks at least don't rule out running decent clocks - at least under 4000.
 
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Do yourself a favor, and scan all the Team Group offerings. Enthusiast grade matched memory at affordable price.

Team Group
 
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I have seen stuff about 2x16 performing better, particularly in overclocks due to daisy chaining and what not but I have also seen some evidence contradicting that for various reasons or that its not a big difference. WHATS THE TRUTH lol

I had seen the xtreem series in past posts, it does seem to be great module for the price and that it could achieve the numbers I'm after. But I just want to get information on which modules would be best out of the Royal line, I realize there are better choices out there.

3600 c16 would be nice to get as it's the cheaper of the group, but if the more expensive modules were more likely to be capable then I might bite the bullet on them. I believe I have seen successful clocks on several of the dims in this list. I would think that 3600 C14 would be the most likely to succeed out of this group no? I thought the 4000 CL17 seemed interesting but couldn't find much info about it.
 
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At the speeds ryzen 3000 caps out at as far as the latency curve goes I don't think it really matters if you go 4x8 or 2x16 with a 3950X/Aorus Master I would probably go with whatever is cheaper unless you have to have all dimms slots occupied from an aesthetics purpose you likely won't and should't push past 3800mhz there's a lot of debate on that but regardless the gains from even 3600 CL16 with super tight sub timings is already negligible from what I've seen with a 2080 ti as it is. I have also yet to use a program that benefits from higher than 3200 CL14 with tight timings other than benchmarks.


If you are worried about it just get the 3600 CL14 kit as even just with XMP/DOCP it will run great...... The 4000 kit would require you to do all the tinkering which is fine but at a base I would want a kit that's plug and play with good performance.
 
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But I just want to get information on which modules would be best out of the Royal line
Well then F4-3600C16Q-64GTRS (or F4-3600C16Q-64GTRG for the gold) it is! Too bad it's $640 but hey it'll look sweet :laugh:

On a slightly more serious aside, with the 3950x being a 32 thread beast 64GB of ram might actually be a useful thing to have honestly.

edit: had my cores wrong
 
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Running 4x 8GB CAS 16 no problem at 3800MHz 1.37V.
 
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Yeah I know, I think its stupid too that I want the shiny one, but the heart wants what it wants! From what I had seen, at least in buildzoids videos was that 3800 CL16 was several percent better in gaming benchmarks than 3600 CL16, if you can reach 1900 fclk that is. I can't recall what other benchmarks he had and what they said though. The goal was never to go above 3800, only to match whatever my highest stable fclk is. I just thought some of those higher speed dims would potentially be easier to down clock and tighten timings than overclocking and tightening timings on lower speed dims. But even still to what you said, I don't think I would even notice the difference so there is not too much point other than just knowing I was able to achieve it and that I'm squeezing out every little bit I can, damn my human nature.

Appreciate the comments from everyone, it would seem that if I stay in the confines of the royal product line with 4x8gb that the 3600 CL16 would be the general consensus. Most likely I will get a close enough clock off of it even if I don't reach that lofty goal of 3800 C14 and it isn't that much more likely that one of the other dims would get me there to warrant the price difference.
 
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At the speeds ryzen 3000 caps out at as far as the latency curve goes ...
That is helpful advice, right there is when I backed my head out of the potential clouds and just looked at real world desktop performance.
I managed to tune 4x8Gb Team Group to 3733Mhz 16-16-16-28 and just called it a day. Thanks to you and @TheLostSwede and others talking about what is reasonable.
My X470 Taichi just will NOT jump to the next level 3800 and stay locked in Coupled CR1T. Oh, well, c'est la vie.
Although I am tempted from time to time to reach for 14-14-14, I don't miss the hours testing, rebooting, clearing CMOS, etc.

My machine runs 24x7 crunching numbers solidly with F@H, Rosetta, and BOINC, all on ECO mode 3950X, and I blow past other folders and crunchers routinely.

So I will sit right here for a while :D
 
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Do prefer the Gold or Silver variation of the Royal kits?

The best bin for 3600 speed kits is most likely these:

Model F4-3600C14Q-32GTRSB (Silver) 14-15-15-35 1.45v
Model F4-3600C14Q-32GTRGB (Gold) 14-15-15-35 1.45v

The 3200 speed C14 kits might also be a touch better bin then the 3600C16 (B-die kits)??
Might go either way I guess... Depending on the quality of the IC's in a particular kit.
 
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I’ve got the 3600c16 4 x 8gb set of gskill royal, can confirm its B die 10 layer. Haven’t gotten deep into it yet, but just by upping voltage to 1.45 and manually changing the main timings I’ve been able to get 3600 c14 and 3733 c15.

Will share more info for those that are interested as I dig deeper into it.
 
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I'm assuming your running 3733C15 with 4X8GB (full bank) instead of two sticks 2X8GB?

I have two kits of 2X8GB 3200C14 Flare X and can run nicely with 4X8GB 3600C16 on my CH8H WiFi. I can also run with 2x8GB @3733C16 as well as @3800C16 both with tuned sub timings but I've been having trouble posting at speeds above 3600 with 4x8GB installed... I'm not sure offhand what kind of trace layout ASUS went with for my board (T-Topology or Daisy-Chain)?
 
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According to this yours should be daisy chained as well https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/htmlview?sle=true#gid=2112472504&fvid=380807963

Yeah it’s a full bank of 4, it may help that it came as a set and was tested to work together at the higher speeds. At 3600 the timings are 14-14-14-30 and 3733 is 15-15-15-32. I have not fine tuned these or messed with sub timings, so they are likely to get better. This was just me being quick and lazy and seeing what I could do by just plugging in some numbers. It did crash at 3800C15, I still have to try it at C16 but I would imagine it’ll do it.
 
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Thanks for link... I had seen that before and had used it previously to study VRM configurations but didn't realize it also had trace layouts.

It seems that the earlier CH6 series was T-topology but then the CH7/CH8 gen. switched over to Daisy chain. Interestingly, I also noticed that for my other board... The ASRock X570 Taichi is showing as being T-Topology... While the similar ASRock X570 Phantom X (pretty much the same board with additional second 2.5GbE LAN) is listed as Daisy chain?

Well I did some additional testing yesterday and was able to get 3733C16 with 4 dimms populated on both the Crosshair and the Taichi but still no luck yet with 4 dimms @3800C16 1/1 on either board.

Here is where I'm at now... PBO enabled 3733C16 ~1.380/1.385v DRAM and ~1.04v SOC running a quick ~1-1/4hr. AIDA64 mem/cache stress:

3950X 3733C16 4D AIDA mem cache stress.PNG
 
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Thanks for link... I had seen that before and had used it previously to study VRM configurations but didn't realize it also had trace layouts.

It seems that the earlier CH6 series was T-topology but then the CH7/CH8 gen. switched over to Daisy chain. Interestingly, I also noticed that for my other board... The ASRock X570 Taichi is showing as being T-Topology... While the similar ASRock X570 Phantom X (pretty much the same board with additional second 2.5GbE LAN) is listed as Daisy chain?

Well I did some additional testing yesterday and was able to get 3733C16 with 4 dimms populated on both the Crosshair and the Taichi but still no luck yet with 4 dimms @3800C16 1/1 on either board.

Here is where I'm at now... PBO enabled 3733C16 ~1.380/1.385v DRAM and ~1.04v SOC running a quick ~1-1/4hr. AIDA64 mem/cache stress:

View attachment 150916
Have you tried using this?
 
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Have you tried using this?
Yes... I have "1usmus" 3733/3800MHz "safe settings" as a BIOS preset.

I'm also thinking I may have a Ryzen 9 sample that doesn't like (or is not compatible with) running at 3800MHz with FCLK/UCLK at 1:1.

I can run 3733 1:1 and 3800 decoupled at 1:2 but when attempting 3800 1:1 it always seems to result in a no post "code 07" scenario that will require a CMOS clear to reboot.

I might have to test this particular chip in one of my other boards to confirm...

3950X 3733C16 3800C16.PNG
 
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Well I did some additional testing yesterday and was able to get 3733C16 with 4 dimms populated on both the Crosshair and the Taichi but still no luck yet with 4 dimms @3800C16 1/1 on either board.
Here is where I'm at now... PBO enabled 3733C16 ~1.380/1.385v DRAM and ~1.04v SOC running a quick ~1-1/4hr. AIDA64 mem/cache stress:
Really appreciate following your progress, PolRoger. My X470 Taichi does just what you describe, and you are testing with the only other board I would consider, the ASUS.
My board's inability to hold 3800 at 1:1:1 CR1 makes me wonder whether the limit is the 3950X CPU, the memory, or the motherboard. Your research is answering a lot of my questions.

Do you also keep the same DRAM and SoC voltages when you test the Taichi?
 
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Yes... I have "1usmus" 3733/3800MHz "safe settings" as a BIOS preset.

I'm also thinking I may have a Ryzen 9 sample that doesn't like (or is not compatible with) running at 3800MHz with FCLK/UCLK at 1:1.

I can run 3733 1:1 and 3800 decoupled at 1:2 but when attempting 3800 1:1 it always seems to result in a no post "code 07" scenario that will require a CMOS clear to reboot.

I might have to test this particular chip in one of my other boards to confirm...

View attachment 151037
It could also be the T-topology holding you back, as apparently boards with a T-topology don't allow for quite as high memory speeds from my understanding.
 
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Really appreciate following your progress, PolRoger...

Do you also keep the same DRAM and SoC voltages when you test the Taichi?
Sometimes if I know how a particular chip likes to run... I'll use previous settings (experience) as a starting place but when troubleshooting an issue I'll mix things up and test lots of different settings.

It could also be the T-topology holding you back, as apparently boards with a T-topology don't allow for quite as high memory speeds from my understanding.
Yes that is possible... I'm still not 100% sure if the X570 Taichi is actually T-Topology or Daisychain? But I've also seen some other posts of users running the X570 Taichi at 3800MHz.

I went back to my CH8 Hero today and was testing some different 2x8GB (B-die) Trident Z kits together and I finally got past my no BIOS post hang issue with 4 DIMMs populated. :)

I was using "1usmus" 3800 safe settings but I also increased both the SOC and DRAM voltage over my previous 3733 settings. I also had to switch/swap the sticks around into different DIMM slots... It finally worked after swapping sticks.

I think low SOV voltage was a factor as well because when I lowered it again and rebooted it caused the board to post to "safe mode" but not hang (CMOS/Clear). Bumping SOV back up higher seemed to stabilize 3800MHz @1:1 4 DIMM allowing a successful post and loading into Windows. I find it interesting that I can run 2x8GB 3800MHz with the same/similar voltages as 4x8GB 3733MHz but pushing the fabric clock to 3800MHz with 4 DIMMs required increased voltages.

1st test... Hopefully further tuning still to come... 3800C16 "1usmus safe" settings DRAM ~1.39v; SOC ~1.075/1.080v; ~2 hr. AIDA64 Mem/Cache stress:

3950X 3800C16 4 Dimm.PNG
 
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The calculator settings shouldn't be taken as hard facts, they're more like a very good place to start and then you can tune from there. However, not all memory seems to be happy at the Voltages suggested, some can make do on a bit less and some need a bit more. I think this comes down to DIMM designs as well as how good quality the memory ICs are, since at least for B-dies, if I understand things correctly, there's quite a bit of variation depending on how binned the chips are.
 
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System Name Ryzen3950X
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For counterpoint, I have finally got a stable system on X470 Taichi (which is *definitely* t-top) with 4x8Gb 3733 16-16-16-32 coupled CR1. DRAM @ 1.45v and SoC 1.1v. Nothing I have tried gets me to 3800. BUT ... there is a bonus ... running the 3950X on ECO mode with 1.1 VCore @ 3.90 Ghz, which drops the chip temp 20c while running 100% cores 100% cycles 24x7 on F@H, Rosetta, and WCG and still gives me a stable desktop.

I am running some top rated Team Group XTREEM 4133 18-18-18-38 underclocked to 3733, and feel comfortable eliminating the DRAM as the weak link.
Yet *another* $300 motherboard upgrade would be a waste if my 3950X just won't get there itself. Still, I'll get another chance when Zen3 comes out. 32 cores 64 threads, OH MY!
 
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