Best settings for i7 1165G7

[gabgab]

hi there,

I would like to set the best "high performance" settings for my i7 for everyday AC operations. this is what i have so far:

Main issue on this CPU is that i cannot undervolt of course. The laptop is an Asus Zenbook and i am super happy with it overall. As it stands with these settings i can reach Turbo speed of 4.7ghz and it's a bit jumpy in those speed (maybe not an issue, but i can see it jumping around even at idle and really cool, multiplier changing itself), with my older U processor you set the undervolt and it stays at maximum speed, but i understand this is different as it's more thermal influenced.

Still if the temperature is low, and right now it is for example, shouldn't it stay at max speed? Maybe there's more to that. And one odd thing, it seems that windows 10's CPU section in task manager does not match CPU-Z, it seems "behind", not a massive issue, but it rarely reaches 4.7 GHZ (have seen 4.4ghz once), instead CPU-Z makes me happy looking at it:

Anyway @unclewebb if you have time please tell me your 2 cents for this CPU what you'd set

thanks so much,
Gabrio

 

[unclewebb]

Start by downloading the latest version of ThrottleStop.

ThrottleStop 9.6 Download

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto

www.techpowerup.com

Open the FIVR window and have a look at the Speed Shift EPP value reported in the monitoring table. This is what controls the CPU speed when lightly loaded.

If you want maximum CPU speed regardless of load, I would use ThrottleStop to access the Windows High Performance power plan. This power plan is typically hidden by Windows but it is easy enough to access using ThrottleStop. After you do that, have a look at what Speed Shift EPP value the CPU is using. It is typically 0 for maximum CPU speed when using High Performance but you need to double check since not every laptop is the same.

When running on battery power, you can use ThrottleStop to automatically switch back to the Windows Balanced power plan.

You might like what CPU-Z shows you but it ignores a lot of the intermediate CPU speeds between 400 MHz and 4000 MHz. When trying to figure out what your CPU is doing, I would exit CPU-Z as well as that other monitoring program you are using. ThrottleStop does a good job of accurately reporting the CPU multiplier. What does ThrottleStop show when your CPU is idle and while running a TS Bench - 1 Thread test?

Intel designs their CPUs so they are constantly changing the CPU multiplier based on how many cores are active. When lightly loaded, the CPU speed is constantly changing. You might like seeing a constant CPU speed but any software reporting that when lightly loaded is not accurate.

For your power limit settings, I would set both power limits to 100 and I would set the turbo time limit to its default value which is usually 28 seconds. You can set the time limit to 3.67 million seconds like you have done but the CPU is going to ignore this setting. I prefer checking the PL2 short power setting. I know lots of review sites recommend clearing this box which works in a lot of situations but if this value ever changes within the CPU, if this box is not checked, ThrottleStop will not be able to update this part of the CPU power limit register. Checking the PL2 box ensures that this register is monitored and properly maintained.

I do not think your CPU uses the PP0 power limit so I would set the PP0 time limit to 0.0010 seconds and leave this unchecked.

The maximum Speed Shift value is 47. You can use 255 or 47 for the Min and the Max. It does not seem to matter.

With a 28W Max TDP rating, these are decent CPUs as long as a manufacturer does not dream up any power limit throttling issues. Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop if you want me to have a look at how your CPU is performing. Either attach a log or copy and paste the data to www.pastebin.com

 

[gabgab]

thanks @unclewebb I played a bit with it, this is how it looks like:

So when i tick Speed Shift EPP it then shows 128 ,but you mentioned it should be "0", where do i see that? it seems that if i click it on and off nothing changes whatsoever. changed power profiles, always 128.

What does make a change is this:

this makes the CPU go like in turtle mode:

and i can play with it up to 47 in fact ,then that's the upper end apparently, this is with 47

idle

under load, very good actually now:

dropping a bit but good, 4.2-4.3 ghz on average under load

for the rest i set now, as you suggested:

i cannot understand power balance though, is it doing something or not?

At idle i get around 3500-4000-4100mhz, i think earlier was jumping more. attached log, during which i did a bit of TS bench, 1 thread and 2 threads.

thanks a lot!,
Gab

 

[gabgab]

but there's something odd - i've been running benchmark for about 2 hours now, with also UserBenchMark.exe which i really like, and i don't get anymore 4400 mhz as i got earlier - is that because of the temp really? or because after sustained testing now inside the laptop is hot ? CPU temps are high but not HOT. like in 50-70C.

too bad we cannot undervolt these anyway!

 

[unclewebb]

@gabgab - I think you misunderstood what I suggested.

Open the FIVR window and have a look at the Speed Shift EPP value reported in the monitoring table. This is what controls the CPU speed when lightly loaded.

If you want maximum CPU speed regardless of load, I would use ThrottleStop to access the Windows High Performance power plan. This power plan is typically hidden by Windows but it is easy enough to access using ThrottleStop. After you do that, have a look at what Speed Shift EPP value the CPU is using. It is typically 0 for maximum CPU speed when using High Performance but you need to double check since not every laptop is the same.

When testing, do not check the Speed Shift EPP option on the main screen of ThrottleStop.

You checked the Speed Shift EPP option on the main screen of ThrottleStop and this is set to 128. That is not how to get maximum CPU performance. Checking Speed Shift EPP with EPP set to 128 will limit maximum performance. That is not what you want.

After you clear the Speed Shift EPP box, check the High Performance box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. This tells Windows to switch to the Windows High Performance power plan.

Now open the FIVR window and look in the FIVR monitoring table to see what Speed Shift EPP value the CPU is using. The EPP number on the main screen of ThrottleStop (128) is a request value that you can send to the CPU. The Speed Shift EPP value in the FIVR monitoring table is the actual EPP value that the CPU is currently using. That is the important one. You can click on the 128 number on the main screen and you can edit this requested EPP value but at the moment, just leave it as is and do not check the Speed Shift EPP option.

Use ThrottleStop to change back and forth between the Windows High Performance power plan and the Windows Balanced power plan. Check the monitoring table in the FIVR window to see what Speed Shift EPP value the CPU is using for each power plan. In the High Performance power plan, Windows usually sets EPP to 0 which tells the CPU that you want maximum CPU speed all of the time.

i don't get anymore 4400 mhz

That is probably because you accidentally set Speed Shift EPP to 128. Follow the above to fix that problem.

There is rarely ever a need to check the Power Balance option. Clear this box unless you think you have a need to use it. Power Balance is designed to balance power between the Intel CPU cores and the Intel GPU. It is a rarely used or needed feature.

 

[gabgab]

thanks @unclewebb i have done some testing by switching power plans via windows (not from TS) and indeed the value goes down to zero.

idle

under load

I have done about 45 mins of testing with TS bench and this seems to be the setup that achieves the best score quite consistently, 95-97-98 seconds for the 1 thread job with 4.30 - 4.40ghz during testing from TS CPU speed, not bad!

if i touch the values, the performance goes at even 111-114 seconds, some difference....it does make a difference if i touch Power Balance, too.

However, over time if you do the test like 10 times, the performance still drops and you don't get anymore the same values, which is a bit of a shame - the CPU doesn't even go at max temperature, keeps a palsy 70C, now that i would like to improve, or have it stable perhaps at 80-85C at least. heck my 3 years old Vivobook i5 8250 U can stay at 3.38 ghz (max) for hours and hours at 90C, although i've undervolted -0.100 there which makes a BIG difference.

But maybe it's really not possible.... I got this from Asus: "It's a normal behavior , Because this Zenbook is a ultrathin NB but Vivobook is normal NB , So for the design , The ultrathin NB is tend to improve the thermal performance Once the unit goes into overheating , The CPU will drop frequency to keep normal temperature ." - i guess there's no way to squeeze it more and i will live with that

 

[gabgab]

actually happy with this for the little Zenbook

 

[gabgab]

hi unclewebb, i have played around with settings and touched this one

does it make a big difference? can't remember how it was before. by unchecking all that core base speeds are always like 4.40 ghz which is good and also under 1 thread goes 4.50 - 4.60ghz, but under load and multithread work it drops, is that normal on the 1165G7?

it's crazy how performance changes 5 minutes after a test, and running it again, you don't get the same results anymore., is like afraid of heat. if by spec can do 100C, that's a bit disappointing. oh well...

 

[gabgab]

oh and another thing, even though clocks are in the 4.5ghz, when you do WIN+E with throttlestop i can see that there's a tiny delay (small he) but in comparison when i disable TS, is literally instant open explorer and WIN+e. does TS add a "CPU" cycle somewhere that creates this little gap?

 

[unclewebb]

i have played around with settings

Do you remember what the original settings were? If you are not sure, you will need to exit ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and shut down your computer so the CPU can reset itself. When you boot back up and run ThrottleStop, it will create a new ThrottleStop.INI configuration file with default settings that it reads from the CPU.

The Demotion Undemotion stuff, checked or unchecked, does not make any significant difference to the CPUs that I have tested. I only check the 3 Undemotion options. Not really sure why. I think this increased C state residency when testing a 1st Gen Core i CPU by some microscopic amount. These settings do not seem to accomplish much on modern CPUs.

Your CPU is Locked to a maximum of Package C10 so change the Request value to C10. There is no point in requesting package C1 if the CPU is locked to package C10.

it's crazy how performance changes 5 minutes after a test

The amount of turbo boost available is like hot water in a bath tub. When you run a CPU at full speed, this drains the water out of the tub and it can take some time before the tub fills back up and full turbo boost is available again. That is an Intel analogy. If you have power limit or thermal throttling issues, your CPU performance can decrease significantly when running back to back stress tests. I think Notebook Check likes to run Cinebench back to back 10 times in a row to compare performance. There is usually a big drop after the first run when CPUs are run at their default power settings. Desktop CPUs with unlocked power limits should run consistently from one run to the next.

i can see that there's a tiny delay

If ThrottleStop is setup correctly, there should be no real world difference in how long it takes Windows to open up File Explorer whether ThrottleStop is running or not. I do not see any difference on my computer. After over 4 million downloads, you are the first person to ever mention this so I have to assume that it is not a major problem for most users.

The FIVR window shows how the turbo ratios change based on how many cores are active. These changes are normal and part of all Intel CPUs that have locked multipliers like most mobile CPUs have.

 

[gabgab]

once again thanks for input.

actually what does make a difference is this:

If i have C1 demotion ticked - throttling aside, opening apps and explorer is literally instant, also opening PDF documents for instance, or opening task manager - whereas if i untick that c1 then there's this small "gap", i tested also on my other laptop i5 and same thing happens there, so better with that one ticked for me

 

[gabgab]

hi @unclewebb how are you?

i was browsing settings on gpsec and found this

ever tried it? didn't touch it (yet) .... do you think it would have any boost?

 

[unclewebb]

ever tried it?

No I have not. I do not think I have anything like that on my computer. I do not have any power throttling issues that need to be solved.

 

[gabgab]

BTW i noticed that 1 out of 2 times i start up or resume from hybernation throttlestop's settings are not in force.

i.e. the clock is at 3.70ghz

then i put to sleep or hybernate on and off and boom i get 4.20-4.30 stable.

why's that?

 

[unclewebb]

settings are not in force.

ThrottleStop usually applies its settings consistently after resuming from Hibernation or Sleep.

The next time you have this problem, run a TS Bench - 1 Thread test. While the test is running, take a screenshot of the main ThrottleStop window, the TPL window and the FIVR window. Show me screenshots of those entire windows. Do not crop the image. I do not need to see your desktop but I do need to see the entire ThrottleStop window.

Before you do this, I would exit ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and then I would completely shutdown your computer. The turbo ratio limits in your first post are not correct for an 1165G7. I am not sure if the BIOS is not setting your CPU up correctly or if something else is going on. These kind of problems can happen during a sleep resume cycle.

You can also run a CPU-Z report when you first boot up and then you can run a second CPU-Z report after you sleep resume your computer. This is another way for me to check for any BIOS problems. Attach these reports to your next post.

 

[gabgab]

hi unclewebb, so here's the output

- these below are the "stock" settings, done what you suggested, deleted ini and then shutdown, then load TS as it is:

and this is with my "boosted values", basically all to the max - I have to say that the there's a big difference, PC is super snappy and i get stable 4.30ghz under no load or also under TS bench with 1 thread 4.30-4.60ghz, NOT with the stock values., i got max 3.80 ghz

so yeah the only thing is that it doesn't stick every single time i resume from hibernation, sometimes i need to do back and forth twice, then i get the boosted values of TS. i really like it's immediate with this boost actually. it's really instant opening everything. am i gonna burn the CPU?

 

[unclewebb]

The default turbo ratios for 1165G7 are 47, 47, 41, 41 and your first screenshot shows that these values are locked. Your second FIVR screenshot shows that the turbo ratios are now set to 39, 38, 35, 35. Copying these settings or using an INI file with these lower settings is not going to do anything if the CPU register that controls these settings is locked. Your second screenshot which shows a multiplier higher than 43 confirms that the lower values are not being used.

The maximum Speed Shift value is 47. Setting this to 255 should not do anything.

A turbo time limit setting of 3,670,016 seconds will be ignored. I think the maximum value to request is 448 seconds and most of that is usually ignored. I would just use the default value of 28 seconds. Both your turbo power limits are set to the same value so an uber long time limit should not be necessary.

PP0 Current Limit should be OK at 0 or 1023.

The PP0 Power Limit should not need to be checked and I prefer to set the time limit to the minimum.

Clock Mod is not used in most recent CPUs so no need to check that box.

I prefer to check Short Power PL2 but this does not matter one way or the other.

Many of the above suggestions are just my preferences. A lot of them will probably not make any difference to how the CPU runs. The only thing left that I am not sure about is the Power Balance setting. Perhaps your decision to set this to 31 for the CPU and 0 for the iGPU is what makes a difference. I have not done any hands on testing of an 11th Gen G7 so I am just guessing. When you change 10 different things, it is hard to say what change has made the difference.

Next time you resume, if you are not seeing multipliers higher than 43, run the CPU-Z report and show me that info. Open the FIVR window and press OK and open the TPL window and press OK and see if that makes any difference to the multipliers. During a sleep resume cycle, the BIOS may make some changes to some CPU control registers or it can also forget to make some changes that it should be making. Without access to an 1165G7, it might remain a mystery.

Open Limit Reasons when testing at default settings. Maybe the multiplier is lower because you are triggering some sort of throttling.

 

[gabgab]

thanks again - i tried with your suggestions but it's not as fast as when i do with the screenshots above (second batch).

The only thing i don't like now is that every other time when i resume from hibernation or sleep, it will not take the max values right away, sometimes i need to do hibernation on and off 2 times, but that's ok as it takes only 5-7 seconds every time.

when it's like this it makes a difference opening programs and stuff

with your suggestions it came back at around 3.60-3.70.

then you get this result on short boost which is pretty good (single thread), better than a Ryzen 3.

if there's no way to avoid having to cycle on and off with power 2 times, then so be it, i am happy with this now. I also added additional cooling with a Klim Cyclone pad.

 

[gabgab]

recently i need to cycle 3 times with hibernate before the TS settings are applied so i get higher frequency. is there anything to adjust this?

once it takes the "good" vibe, it remains high for the whole day, it's perfect. but if i don't power cycle or sleep or hibernate a few times, doesn't work.

thanks

 

[unclewebb]

recently i need to cycle 3 times with hibernate before the TS settings are applied

ThrottleStop applies its settings consistently after resuming from sleep or hibernate. The problem you are having is likely a BIOS problem. Sometimes the BIOS will either lock a setting or forget to lock a setting and doing a sleep resume cycle will fix this BIOS problem.

Without access to an 1165G7, it might remain a mystery.

Without full access to your laptop, it is impossible to say what register is being locked or not set correctly.

 

[gabgab]

alright, i see ok then. thank you very much. very happy overall anyway, this is just a 15 seconds thing

 

[gabgab]

i noticed something new and odd - after i got my max CPU power (after about 3 times hibernation on and off after a resume), when i unplug the laptop from the AC / powered usb-c hub, (still in high performance), it drops CPU frequency again.

BUT if i do again 2-3 hiberation cycles (just click on hibernation, resume and back x 3) then i get again my max CPU frequency, even on battery

I do wonder why in the instant you unplug the AC though CPU drops (assuming everything else remains the same) and you need to "force" it again... boh

 

[unclewebb]

why in the instant you unplug the AC though CPU drops

This is a safety feature built into many laptops. If you are plugged in and the CPU is heavily loaded, suddenly switching to battery power can be hard on the battery. Some laptops slow the CPU down for 5 or 10 seconds so the power drain being applied to the battery is more gradual. Some laptops forget to go back to full speed but that is a separate issue.

2-3 hibernation cycles

If a random number of sleep or hibernate cycles changes how your CPU operates, it might be something funny that the BIOS is doing or is not doing to your CPU during these cycles.

Have you updated to ThrottleStop 9.4 yet? It is the first version where the Disable and Lock feature works properly on the 11th Gen CPUs. It also reports both the MSR power limit and the MMIO power limit separately in the TPL window. If you are using the Disable and Lock feature, nothing will be reported for the MMIO power limit because it is disabled. It will show a lock icon beside this setting.

 

[gabgab]

cool, i just installed the new version, restarted on high mode, good but the but it seems not much changed, after hibernation, i still need to cycle 2-3 times hibernate on and off and when i plug or unplug AC i will "lose" that nice high setting. on AC a bit quicker to go on high mode, on battery i had to cycle i think 3 times then high CPU speed.

not sure i need to disable that new menu for best results, sorry not clear, this is how i have it now:

shall i unlock that? thanks

 

[unclewebb]

shall i unlock that?

The MMIO lock and the FIVR - Disable and Lock do the same thing. If you check the one in the TPL window, the FIVR - Disable and Lock will be checked too. The Disable and Lock box is no longer necessary but I decided to leave it there so there would be less questions like, "Where did it go?"

not much changed

That means whatever your computer is doing, it is probably not related to this setting.