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Best sounding 2.1 setup for Music?

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cadaveca

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Most amps offer 2 seperate 2-channel outputs for stereo content.

"A/B".

Those speakers have dual mono inputs, with a connecting plate joining them for when the speakers are NOT Bi-amped.

Remove the connector plate, and wire the "A" and "B" outputs from the stereo to each speaker, with "A" on top pair of conenctors, and "B" on the bottom set, and then you get teh bass speakers on thier own channel, kinda mimicking having a sub...on both the left and right channels.
 

shevanel

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Ahh thats exactly what he was saying. dunno if this amp does that.

I just got home from orlando with teh receiver. now i gotta goto walmart and see if they have decent speaker wire...

edditt

just got back with 14ga speaker wire, the cheap stuff! $12

About to get this fired up and see how this onkyo does
 
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shevanel

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LOL I feel so nooB.

I don't have a 3.5mm to rca adapter tonight and the one I own is at work so I am using optical out from the front bay of the pc to the optical in on the rear of the onkyo but dammit I cannot get any sound.....

I hit digital button and chose optical #1 and the receiver is on DVD (no othe roption i see yet)

Any tips?
 

mdsx1950

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I'm guessing you didn't see my post. Why dont you check on the Creative Gigaworks T3? Its a little over your budget but its really awesome.
 
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I'm guessing you didn't see my post. Why dont you check on the Creative Gigaworks T3? Its a little over your budget but its really awesome.

hes alrady bought new speakers? and they look AWSOME :D






To OP,
if your playing music from your PC over optical, make sure you have the default sound device set at optical out.
 

shevanel

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Sometimes you have to unwire the receiver so you can remove it from the top of the pc case, then you need to open the case and connect the 4 pin power plug to the drive bay so you see light come from the optical cable... LOL I am so dumb... but then again I missed a good nights sleep last night... sound is working. Cant really blast it tonight cuz I just got it working.. and roomate went to bed.

I have a wierd question though, the R speaker tower is about a few feet from a small window AC the speaker is turned towards me slighty so there is air being deflected off the tower, should I be worried about the ac ruining anything from maybe condensation or anything?

I'm so glad I bought these, even at super low volume the music is just so detailed and sounds fantastic.. I so cannot wait until tomorrow when no one is here so I can see what these speakers can put out from this donkey-o.. Ive never owned anything that made the listening experience so great, I am so glad you guys suggested this route and Im so glad I didn't go cheap and get those Promedias even though I'm sure they sound great but I am happy with this and I feel I still got my monies worth even though I spent 2x's my original budget I feel I have something that will give me a great listening experience for years to come.

Tomorrow Ill do some cable clean up down there.. yikes.

http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=100614/spekies.jpg
 
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mdsx1950

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Wile E

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Sometimes you have to unwire the receiver so you can remove it from the top of the pc case, then you need to open the case and connect the 4 pin power plug to the drive bay so you see light come from the optical cable... LOL I am so dumb... but then again I missed a good nights sleep last night... sound is working. Cant really blast it tonight cuz I just got it working.. and roomate went to bed.

I have a wierd question though, the R speaker tower is about a few feet from a small window AC the speaker is turned towards me slighty so there is air being deflected off the tower, should I be worried about the ac ruining anything from maybe condensation or anything?

I'm so glad I bought these, even at super low volume the music is just so detailed and sounds fantastic.. I so cannot wait until tomorrow when no one is here so I can see what these speakers can put out from this donkey-o.. Ive never owned anything that made the listening experience so great, I am so glad you guys suggested this route and Im so glad I didn't go cheap and get those Promedias even though I'm sure they sound great but I am happy with this and I feel I still got my monies worth even though I spent 2x's my original budget I feel I have something that will give me a great listening experience for years to come.

Tomorrow Ill do some cable clean up down there.. yikes.

http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=100614/spekies.jpg

Your speaker will be fine there.

Now, all you have to do is but 2 more Beta 50's (Good choice on the speakers, btw), a voice matched Infinity center channel, and a decent sub, and you have not just a kick ass music rig, but also a kick ass movie/game rig.
 

jfgwapo

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I think the best sounding 2.1 for Music is Altec Lansing MX5021, which I own right now (love your own).

I used to have a Klisch ProMedia 5.1 THX, it died on me after using it for 5 months. Busted amp on the sub. I'll pass on Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 because of ProMedia's reliability issues.

PS: My 1st post =)
 

shevanel

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Your speaker will be fine there.

Now, all you have to do is but 2 more Beta 50's (Good choice on the speakers, btw), a voice matched Infinity center channel, and a decent sub, and you have not just a kick ass music rig, but also a kick ass movie/game rig.

lol dude my room is way to small... its already hard to breath
 
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lol dude my room is way to small... its already hard to breath

shevanel,

I am glad that you're enjoying your new set up. How is the bass without the sub? have you had a chance to tweak the receiver yet?
 

shevanel

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I had to turn the bass down because it was too friggin much!! LOL

I was jammin out and my pens on the the desk were rolling off.. change jar jinglin'.. it's bad ass!

I had it cranked though... now I have it set as balanced as I believe it needs to be for me. What I love most is I don't even have to use a crossover at all.. running it FLAT and it sounds perfect... I used to have to make custom profiles in my EQ panel for different types of Music or Albums.. Not on this setup!

I love how the speakers are spread apart but I can hear the vocals coming from behind my Monitor which sits on my desk in between the speakers.

I had to use an optical cable from the drive bay of the Audigy Zs output to the receiver because the 3.55mm-to-RCA is at work.. I go back to work tomorrow so I'll grab it.. I doubt it'll make any difference but I need to use this optical cable for the Astro A40 Mixamp and they cost too much to buy a second.

Thanks again.


P.s

It's wierd to take the balance slider and move it left and right and it seems as if the singers head is just floating side to side lol
 

cadaveca

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Here's a PRO AUDIO TIP:

For proper stereo seperation, you need to space speakers 6 feet apart.(I'm one of those guys that measures speakers distance to the mm, angles, and all that too:laugh:)

I have nothing else to add that hasn't been said before. I'm very glad you took the advice to go with the Infinity Beta's...I listed after them for quite some time myself.

Wile E is right though, another set and a center, and you'd enver need to buy another set of speakers in your lifetime...they ARE truly that good...Yes, there are better, but not @ the $300 you paid for those.

It's money well spent...really.

I suggest always using the optical out of the sound card. Then the receiver will do the audio processing, and should do far better than the audiocard. If the card sports Dolby Headphone, you may want to give that a try as well, as you're running stereo anyway.
 

shevanel

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Ok cool cad, thanks for that much appreciated info. That makes a ton of sense. :)

I do however have the speakers about 6.5 feet apart.. if i extend my arms they seem to be slightly past my reach and Im about 6ft. I have the about 6" from the wall and turn trowards me just a teeny bit... Only thing I have to deal with is the right speakers lower half is block by my bed but its all good.

Also, Ive been trying to figure out what the level calibration setting are for?

I have L+R channel set at +1dB simply because I don't have to turn the volume up as much... what are the settings actually for?


I'm going to tidy up those cords really soon, packing up hardware for the post office atm...


 

cadaveca

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Level Calibration: That's for when you are using mis-matched speakers(so that smaller speakers output the same volume as larger ones). Leave it at default, and use the volume knob.

And yeah, i took a look at your pic, and you probably got it covered. It's one of the major reasons for the good stereo representation you are experiencing. the one thing I would do is pull the desk a bit away form the wall, and leave about 6 inches between the back of the speaker and the wall, and this is more important is you have rear-ported speakers (although I personally won't buy a speaker with front ports now).
 

shevanel

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Ok one last question.. Do you think the optical coming from the drive in the front is lesser than sound cards with the optical coming from the back of the sound card directly using the adapter?

I am removing this Audigy Zs and Im getting my XFi champion back(buyer didnt see he lacked a pci slot, whoops)... since Im using a receiver like this does it matter which sound card I have?

I have yet to run thse Bi-amped tho... still a little uncertain as to how to set it up on the Rec. end.. Ill google some about it soon.
 

cadaveca

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No, sound card doesn't matter, really. Some cards do not offer Dolby encoding though, so you might want to keep that in mind...Dolby encoding isn't 100% required, but some games do benefit from it. I'm currently using the onboard digi out to my receiver...I do notice a difference on analogue, but not digital.


Which optical output you use shouldn't matter either, depending on where the signal is encoded...if it's done in the bay, the audio may be prone to interference from power supply cables, but you'd notice that problem for sure, when vga is loaded, or with mouse movement...etc...
 

shevanel

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Ok cool.. Those were just a few things I was curious about.. Whenever I lack experience in something I always have questions just to be sure there isn't a better way for it to be done.

Thanks again

I'll keep the bay drive style card though, I like the thought of just pulling the optical from the front input of the Rec. and into the A40 mixmp whenever Im using the headset.
 

cadaveca

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No problem. I've got a TONNES of general knowledge about this sort of stuff...enough for us, anyway. Being a musician, audio is VERY important to me, but there are a couple of other musicians here too. But I'm the sort of musician that like to tweak his tools; some musicians jsut know how to play thier instrument(not that I think that of those here, just as a qualifying example).
 

cadaveca

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Heh. So does the local music shop...I've gone through..:eek:...I've gone through 7 guitars in the last 10 months, trying to find the sound I want. Finally got it though(funny thing too, as now my pedal board with just 5 pedals has more value than my guitar...still playing a Gibby Les paul, even.:laugh:)
 
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Gotta love those Infinity Beta series. Can't go wrong with dual 8" speakers in each tower -I wish I could fit something like that in my apartment here in Japan. Nice setup though. Infinitely better than normal computer speakers!
 

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Here's a PRO AUDIO TIP:

For proper stereo seperation, you need to space speakers 6 feet apart.(I'm one of those guys that measures speakers distance to the mm, angles, and all that too:laugh:)

I have nothing else to add that hasn't been said before. I'm very glad you took the advice to go with the Infinity Beta's...I listed after them for quite some time myself.

Wile E is right though, another set and a center, and you'd enver need to buy another set of speakers in your lifetime...they ARE truly that good...Yes, there are better, but not @ the $300 you paid for those.

It's money well spent...really.

I suggest always using the optical out of the sound card. Then the receiver will do the audio processing, and should do far better than the audiocard. If the card sports Dolby Headphone, you may want to give that a try as well, as you're running stereo anyway.
Not always true. My forte decodes better than most mid to low range receivers.

Not to mention, optical can't do TrueHD or Master Audio or multi channel 24/96 pcm. Only HDMI or analog outs will allow that. Not that that particular situation applies here at the moment anyway, but just making the point.

For a 2.0 setup on the Audigy, the optical may be better, but if he needs the optical for something else, then analog will be fine for the PC.

I suggest buying an Auzentech Forte next, and being blown away by the difference. I went from an Audigy 2ZS, which is better than any on board, to a Forte, and I was blown away by the difference.

Ok one last question.. Do you think the optical coming from the drive in the front is lesser than sound cards with the optical coming from the back of the sound card directly using the adapter?

I am removing this Audigy Zs and Im getting my XFi champion back(buyer didnt see he lacked a pci slot, whoops)... since Im using a receiver like this does it matter which sound card I have?

I have yet to run thse Bi-amped tho... still a little uncertain as to how to set it up on the Rec. end.. Ill google some about it soon.
See above. Sound card can make a difference. Mostly thru analog tho. And it doesn't matter what optical you use. There is no quality loss by using the front optical. It's an all digital signal, or at least it should be.
 
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cadaveca

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Yeah, you bet. you'll find I've made the same comments elsewhere.


:toast:
 

shevanel

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I'm glad you guys aren't lurking to pron forums and have stopped by because I have been reading or trying to find enough quality material to read regarding this bi-amping... :laugh:

I've hear alot of people say it's uselss.. a few say it helps..

In one thread I only found one good comment about bi-amping and it was this

So...instead of just listening to other peoples' opinions on this forum (and not knowing if they have actually did a comparison between bi-amping or not or if they are just regurgitating someone else's remarks they've read elsewhere), I decided to do the test on my own here. Remember, I'm walking into this not knowing if I will hear a difference since opinions vary here, so I'm not biased one way or another.

My conclusion: those of you who say there is no difference with passive bi-amping need to clean their ears. There is a difference, although I'm having a difficult time interpreting just why this difference exists. It's not subtle either, and honestly, I'm not used to my audio sounding this way so I don't know how to interpret it. It's very different...

The test:

My system is in a normal carpeted room (LxWxH = 25x32x8) that is "untreated" by hifi standards. Each speaker sits 30 degrees off center with a distance of 10 feet apart and 10 feet from my listening position...with appropriate toe-in.

Equipment:
Ayre K-1 preamp
Meridian 508.24 CD player
Theta Dreadnaught amp (200x5) (x2) (on Transparent Powerlink Super)
Dunlavy SC-IV/A speakers

Respectable equipment I think (I like it) to observe some sort of result or not. I plugged everything directly into wall sockets (each amp had it's own and didn't share with anything else).

I used two pairs of Transparent MusicLink Super balanced interconnects out of the Ayre K-1 into two channels in each of my Dreadnaughts, and had each Dreadnaught assigned to one speaker. This works great to keep channels separate from each other since the Ayre is also a dual mono design. Both pieces are a zero-feeback dual-differential design. In each Dreadnaught, one channel powered the "high post" and one channel powered "low post". Usually my CD player is run dual-differential balanced, but since I stole the other balanced cable from the player and used it for the second balanced output from the Ayre, I had to use a set of RCA interconnects, and so I used a set of Synergistic Research cables I had sitting around.

For speaker cable, I did the unthinkable for hifi: I replaced my Transparent MusicWave Plus BiWire cable with two lengths of standard 16awg for each channel. As much as I love my Transparent, I couldn't use it in this test because the cable isn't designed for a bi-amp scenario. So the easiest thing to do was cut some 16awg off a spool and work with that. It'll do for the test.

I started immediately in bi-amp operation. I put each Dreadnaught in stereo mode and shut off all other channels. Volume on the Ayre was set at approximately 10 o'clock. I played with only one CD tonight (and will try some more over the next few days when I have time). Tori Amos's American Doll Posse - not a bad recording, but not one of the best either. It was the only way I'd get to do this tonight and have my girlfriend sit in on this after I did some of my own investigation. The songs I chose to listen to were Mr. Bad Man and Roosterspur Bridge.

I listened in bi-amp mode. Bass was good. There was something to be said about the air in the midbass and treble area, but I didn't know what it was. For all I know, the single amp mode could be the same. So I spent time taking the 16awg out of channel 2 and putting it in channel 1 with the other wire making the speakers single amped but biwired, just as I've been used to.

The volume knob did not change.

Playing the CD required no adjustment of the volume level. It was the same whether single-amped or bi-amped.

The sound: Immediately I could tell that the bass was not as defined. I mean, it wasn't even close. What was clearly distinguished in bi-amp mode was the drum pedal and bass guitar. In bi-amp mode I could hear both independently, defined, and I'll say seemingly accurate. When listening to the speakers off one amp, the bass was still strong, but clouded. The definition was now gone...or mixed up at best. I could no longer hear the drum pedal always separate from the bass guitar. Sometimes I could, sometimes they were together as one sound. Funny how I thought it sounded good before. Biamping also made bass dynamic range seem to improve more rather than sounding linear as it did in single-amp mode. All of this is easy to explain. Each Dunlavy has two 10" Scanspeak woofers in them. Maybe, just maybe biamping improved their performance...?

Now for the tricky part...

In bi-amp mode, treble, for the most part, didn't change much. I did notice slightly less sibilance, but Tori Amos's voice in the recording tends to be a bit sharp around the edges some moments. While center focus also seemed similar, what seemed to change dramatically was the space between all elements in the mix...as well as their volume levels...hmmm...and that is what is throwing me off here.

Sounds in the mix that were more forward in single amp mode appeared quieter and less intrusive in bi-amp mode. It's like some sounds actually took a step back and became modest. On top of that, all the instruments seemed to carry a better space of their own as if they asked for some personal space from everything else in the mix. And this, my friends, is what made listening to the recording very very different. I really didn't know if this was a good or bad thing 'cause I haven't heard it this way before - ever. It's almost "polite" on the ears.

I also found that what was perceived as being slightly more dynamic (vocals) in single amp mode was now slightly modest when biamping. Why this is, I don't know. But that's what I heard. Maybe it has to do with the next point.

When switching it to single amp mode, everything was there and active at once - still sounded good as I've always heard it, but all things in the mix began to sound as if they were at a similar volume level...more compressed in a sense...and what was apparent was that the definition of all sounds wasn't as good as in biamp mode. It seemed the mids and tweeters on my Dunlavy's had more to work with now and were better able to portray the recording.

When inviting my girlfriend to listen (who I always consult with for my audio needs because she loves music just as I do and loves listening too, plus her ears are slightly more sensitive than mine), she gave me the exact impressions back. She had no idea what experiment I was conducting - she was doing her own thing in another room when I was doing all of this, nor did I tell her beforehand. I told her to listen twice. I didn't tell her what I was doing at all.

I played the two tracks. I did biamp first. Single amp second.

What I found, she found, although expressed it to a greater degree than I found. She made the comparison of the second listen (single amp mode) as to what she's used to hearing - here at home or in her car - everything mixed together. She too noticed the "space" difference (and bass) with biamping. She didn't know how to take it either, but when asked to choose one or the other before I told her what I did, she chose the biamp sound as her choice.

This sort of ticked me off, honestly. For one, I was hoping there wasn't going to be a difference, or at least one that I was going to appreciate. The fact that my girlfriend gave the same feedback as my thoughts without her knowing what I did just confirms that I'm not fishing for a difference, but that a difference (and a positive one) exists.

Second, now that I know I'll want to keep biamping, I have to change speaker cables. This is going to be more of a pain in the butt if anything, but I'll figure something out. I didn't want that to happen.

So there you have it. These are my observations. Take them as they are, but to the naysayers of biamping just know that I started this experiment unbiased having no experience with it at all.

Over the next few days I'm going to try some better recordings as well as music from a wide variety of genres. But I think better recordings will probably convince me more to stay with biamping.

In conclusion, I found bass definition much better when passively biamping. Space between all sounds also improved. But why many sounds became quieter than they were in single-amp mode is beyond me, but I'm sure someone will have an answer be it right or wrong, but I'm curious to hear an opinion on it.


But after that peice the other "higher post count type of multi-quote" users were beggining to bash his theory...


Anyways, after reading that I want to try this bi-amp but I don't understand where the high pass section wires are supposed to go into the reciever.. Do they plug up into the Zone 2 section of the Rec. These are not the big screw type but the old school spring loaded push in type, is there where I want to connect or do I want to connect elsewhere?

LOL, sorry but I tried..
 
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