• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Better hd7870 brand

Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#1
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,625 (2.38/day)
Likes
2,986
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#2
I would rather have the xfx for two fans, but is it worth $20 is up to you.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
4,562 (1.34/day)
Likes
2,700
Location
Kingston, Ontario Canada
System Name My Rig | Kids Rig
Processor Core i5 3570K @ 4.0 ghz 1.15 vcore | FX 8350 @4 ghz
Motherboard EVGA Z77 FTW 1.21 BIOS |Gigabyte 990FXA UDH (rev 4.0)
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO R2-push/pull with 2x 120mm PWM | CM Hyper 212
Memory Mushkin Blackline 4GB x 2 1600mhz XMP profile |G. Skill 4GB x 2 DDR3 1866mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 480 8gb | Asus Strix R9 390X 8GB
Storage Kingston SSDNOW V300 120/240 GB OS & Games / 1000 GB Data | 320GB OS / 500GB Data & Games
Display(s) Samsung S24D590 24" PLS 5ms 60hz refresh with Enhanced Sync | BenQ GW2270 22" VA 5ms 60hz refresh
Case NZXT 810 Switch |Thermaltake Soprano Snow Edition
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DSX w/ Logitech z623 | Realtek
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA 750W 80+ Gold | CoolerMaster GS750M 80+ Bronze
Mouse Razer Diamondback Chroma | Tt Level 10M
Keyboard Razer Ornata Chroma w/ meka-membrane keys | MadCatz S.T.R.I.K.E. TE w/ Kailh brown
Software Windows 10 Pro | Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Thanks to Norton/Lt_JWS/Guitar for the 2nd pc parts :)
#3
since its newegg, niether :p Sapphire IMO are the best 3rd party maker of AMD cards
 

Norton

Moderator & WCG-TPU Captain
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
12,672 (5.80/day)
Likes
36,217
Location
USA
System Name My Fortress/Trish (WCG)/Julia (WCG)/Ella (WCG)/Junior(WCG)/Cruncher 1 & 2/Kreij (WCG)
Processor Ryzen 1700X/i7-970/2600K/i7-980X/3930k/Opteron 6168x4/Ryzen 1600X/FX-8350
Motherboard X370 Taichi/ ASUS R3E/Asus P8P67 Pro/P9X79 Pro/EVGA X58 SLI 3/SuperMicro 4P
Cooling NH-D14/Phanteks/NH-U14S/H70/DeepCool/CM 212+ (x4)/NH-U14S/CM212
Memory 16GB GSkill TridentZ-3200 (1700X), 16GB GSkill FlareX-2400 (1600X),... various...., 4P- 16x1GB
Video Card(s) RX 580/HD 4670/HD 7770/HD 7770/HD 7770/onboard/HD 7770/onboard
Storage WD 500GB SSD/Seagate 2TB SSHD, everything else is Western Digital (mostly)
Display(s) Dell U2414H & 2409W / Dell 2208WFP (shared)
Case Silverstone FT01B/Source 530/Corsair 230T/Define XL R2/Silverstone FT05/Define R4/custom
Audio Device(s) on board (All)
Power Supply Corsair HX850/TX650/CS650M/X Gold 750/EVGA P2 850/X Gold 1050/HX650
Mouse Logitech G300s
Keyboard Thermaltake Challenger Prime (Great for $30!!!)
Software Win 7 Home 64 (Win 10 Pro 64)/Win Pro 64 or Ubuntu 12.04 LTS/14.04 LTS/17.04
Benchmark Scores Why sit on the Bench when you can get in the game and Crunch!!!
#4
That XFX also has a lifetime warranty
 

manofthem

WCG-TPU Team All-Star!
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,726 (4.24/day)
Likes
26,169
Location
Florida
System Name bBox | tOffice | mDonk
Processor i7 4770k @4.3 | i7 2600k @3.5 | i7 4790 @3.8
Motherboard MSI Z87 G45 | MSI Z68 GD55 | MSI H97M G43
Cooling Water | Reeven Justice RC-1204 | can't remember
Memory G Skill TridentX 8GB 2400 | Patriot Viper 3 8GB 1600 | G Skill Ripjaws 8GB 1600
Video Card(s) 2x R9 290's | 980 SC ACX2.0 | n/a
Storage 850 Evo 250GB & 2TB Desktar 5K3000 | 830 256GB & 1.5TB & 3TB Barracudas| 830 256GB
Display(s) QNIX WX2710 (96Hz OC) & Shimian Achieva QH270-Lite | Acer 27HL | n/a
Case 900D | Fractal Define S | n/a
Audio Device(s) Siberia v2 | onboard | n/a
Power Supply Corsair AX1200 | XFX 550Pro | SeaSonic 660XP2
Mouse Razer Mamba 2012 | Corsair M95 | n/a
Keyboard Das Keyboard Pro 4 (blues) | Cougar Attack X3 (blues) | n/a
Software Win 10 Pro x64 | Win 10 Pro x64 | Win 10 Pro x64
#5
That XFX also has a lifetime warranty
And a $30 prepaid card. My XFX rebate/card experience has been good having both honored in recent times, and my old XFX 6950 was great too. Out of the 2, i'd go with XFX.

Honorable mention: AlienIsGod is right w/ Sapphire, I do fancy them ;)
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#6
well my last 2 cards were sapphire... but I don't see a sapphire available in that price range. I'm leaning towards XFX but is it worth it for a $30 difference..... Both cards have a mail in rebate for $30
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,625 (2.38/day)
Likes
2,986
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#7
The xfx should be quieter also.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
19,197 (5.03/day)
Likes
4,797
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
#8
XFX honestly
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
77 (0.05/day)
Likes
41
Location
Flagstaff,Arizona
System Name tetrahydrocannibidol
Processor Intel Core i5 3570K @4.5GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP5-TH
Cooling Prolimatech Megahalems/2xSan Ace 9G1212H1011
Memory 16GB Mushkin Blackline Ridgeback 9-9-9-28 1T 2133
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 780 Classified
Storage 3TB Barracuda 7200.14/2TB WD Red/128GB M4
Display(s) Dell S2740L IPS
Case Corsair 750D
Audio Device(s) Xonar DX/FiiO E11/HD598
Power Supply 1KW Hale90 (had 3x480s before)
Software Windows 8
Benchmark Scores probably high
#9
Powercolor has the better track record. XFX has the better card.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
334 (0.18/day)
Likes
212
System Name White Shark
Processor 7700K
Motherboard msi z270 gaming pro carbon
Cooling CM 212 EVO
Memory CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3000
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Storage Kingston SSD 300V 120gb/ WD 1t/ hitachi 1t/
Display(s) asus 23,6 led
Case Rosewill challenger
Power Supply Thermaltake toughpower 750 gold
Software W10
#10
if those are your two only options, XFX over PC, Sapphire IMO, I had HD4870x2 and two hd5870 sapphire and no regrets.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#11
Well I'd take a sapphire if someone can find one for 150-180 in an hd7870 I'm all in! Problem is I don't see any available anywhere!!!
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
19,197 (5.03/day)
Likes
4,797
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
#12
Grab the xfx then
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#13
Sounds like XFX it is, but I'm trying to convince the wife to let me spend a bit more. Do you think an r9 270x would be worth the extra
?
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
6,571 (1.42/day)
Likes
1,164
Location
Republic of Asia (a.k.a Irvine), CA
System Name Red Spy
Processor FX 8350 @ 4.35 Ghz with 1.28v
Motherboard Gigabyte 990FX-UD3 v4.0
Cooling TT Water 3.0 Performer + 2 x Cougar 120mm fan, 1 x 120mm Blue LED, 1 x 200 mm Red LED fan
Memory Kingston HyperX DDR3 1333 16GB
Video Card(s) Asus R9 290 OC @ GPU - 1050, MEM - 1300
Storage ADATA 128GB Sata III SSD for OS, WDC Black - 1TB Storage, OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD - Games
Display(s) AOC 23" 1080P LCD
Case AeroCool XPredator X3
Audio Device(s) Built-in Realtek
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Modular
Software Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
Benchmark Scores BF4 with Mantle on Ultra settings gets around 60 FPS.
#14
PowerColor is not that bad, I still have 2600xt made by PowerColor. XFX if they still have lifetime warranty then may be take that.

PowerColor rebate is awesome, rebate came in 6 weeks and its a REBATE CHECK, just deposit in your bank. Rebate Card is forced to buy something card! And they have fees if not used for certain period.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,625 (2.38/day)
Likes
2,986
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#15
Sounds like XFX it is, but I'm trying to convince the wife to let me spend a bit more. Do you think an r9 270x would be worth the extra
?
The 270x would not be worth it in my opinion. Basically the same card.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#16
Only real difference I see is direct x version... is it really worth the 30-40 difference???
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,625 (2.38/day)
Likes
2,986
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#17
Not really. Depends on what games you play. Most game today use dx9 and most games in the future will use dx11.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
19,197 (5.03/day)
Likes
4,797
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
#18
By the time that new dx version goes mainstream itll be time to upgrade again
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
334 (0.18/day)
Likes
212
System Name White Shark
Processor 7700K
Motherboard msi z270 gaming pro carbon
Cooling CM 212 EVO
Memory CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3000
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Storage Kingston SSD 300V 120gb/ WD 1t/ hitachi 1t/
Display(s) asus 23,6 led
Case Rosewill challenger
Power Supply Thermaltake toughpower 750 gold
Software W10
#19
my advise, if you dont have the money or not gonna have it in a couple of months go hd7870. Its your best B4TB, if planning getting an extra the GTX 760 evga ACX/ SC is at $240 in newegg. But that will be almost $80 more from a hd7870. Dont go R9-270X its the same and you can OC the hd 7870.IMO
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#20
my advise, if you dont have the money or not gonna have it in a couple of months go hd7870. Its your best B4TB, if planning getting an extra the GTX 760 evga ACX/ SC is at $240 in newegg. But that will be almost $80 more from a hd7870. Dont go R9-270X its the same and you can OC the hd 7870.IMO
I'm almost considering going with a gtx 760, what are the more reputable cards in that line?
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
334 (0.18/day)
Likes
212
System Name White Shark
Processor 7700K
Motherboard msi z270 gaming pro carbon
Cooling CM 212 EVO
Memory CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3000
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Storage Kingston SSD 300V 120gb/ WD 1t/ hitachi 1t/
Display(s) asus 23,6 led
Case Rosewill challenger
Power Supply Thermaltake toughpower 750 gold
Software W10
#21
evga Superclocked ACX cooler, MSi gaming and gigabyte all oc versions. cant go wrong there. love the ACX cooler from Evga and the Msi Gaming is nice too.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#22
evga Superclocked ACX cooler, MSi gaming and gigabyte all oc versions. cant go wrong there. love the ACX cooler from Evga and the Msi Gaming is nice too.
Any links to particular ones?
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
334 (0.18/day)
Likes
212
System Name White Shark
Processor 7700K
Motherboard msi z270 gaming pro carbon
Cooling CM 212 EVO
Memory CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3000
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Storage Kingston SSD 300V 120gb/ WD 1t/ hitachi 1t/
Display(s) asus 23,6 led
Case Rosewill challenger
Power Supply Thermaltake toughpower 750 gold
Software W10
#23
Any links to particular ones?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127745 it says $249.99 on cart minus $10 on rebate $239.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130932 just a couple of days ago was at $249.99 free shipping now is $20 more and its my one fav to pick.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125466 Ga doesnt get behind is a fine card.

All else its up to you, read some reviews from customers and take your pick, id glady pick the MSi on that price!!!!
Good luck!!!!
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#24
I was looking over that MSI one, doesn't hurt that you get assassins creed iv free with it too. Wonder if the prices will drop back down... I'm not in a "hurry" since my card works, just wanted to upgrade since it's been awhile. I hate how volatile the hardware market seems to be lately, it's like gas prices.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,285 (0.33/day)
Likes
109
Location
Elyria, Ohio
System Name Black Widow
Processor FX8320
Motherboard Biostar TA970
Cooling Stock AMD
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengence @ 1866
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX760
Storage 128 GB Samsung SSD, 1TB WD SATA, 250 GB WD SATA
Display(s) Acer 22 in. LCD
Case Cooler Master HAF 932
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 2
Power Supply Antec NeoECO C 520 watt
Software Win 8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Score 7754.0 3DMarks Graphics Score 8392.0 Physics Score 6498.0 Combined Score 6062.0
#25