Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high

[phill]

Yep only the past is known and we can't do a damn thing to change that so hopefully learning from it we should be good to go!! I am in it for my children and hopefully theirs too.. Hopefully I'll still be around to see them grow up and teach them overclocking

It's utterly mental but utterly brilliant at the same time I think!!

 

[Space Lynx]

Yep only the past is known and we can't do a damn thing to change that so hopefully learning from it we should be good to go!! I am in it for my children and hopefully theirs too.. Hopefully I'll still be around to see them grow up and teach them overclocking

It's utterly mental but utterly brilliant at the same time I think!!

I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea. As I have said in past, if crypto gets too big, Fiat will never let itself be undermined as that is where government power comes from. They will make every business in many countries pay enormous taxes on every transaction (I'm talking long term future not right now), sure you can always fly to a different a country and spend it I suppose say when buying a new graphics card with it or insert any item of value you want to buy. Even then, when you fly back home, customs will want to know what is in your bag... so I still don't see a way around it though.

Crypto is a commodity, so the tax on it can go as high they deem necessary. No different than cigarettes having very high tax rates. I expect within 4 years we will see a 45% tax rate on every transaction of crypto from any business on United States soil. Fiat will never let itself be undermined.

If you can improve your generational wealth through a real estate purchase now, I would say do that first and foremost. That is how true generational stable wealth is created. Every rich family in England, well majority of them, inherited house from this person or that person, and so all the money they made at their regular job was bank. No rent fee = game changer.

 

[phill]

I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea. As I have said in past, if crypto gets too big, Fiat will never let itself be undermined as that is where government power comes from. They will make every business in many countries pay enormous taxes on every transaction (I'm talking long term future not right now), sure you can always fly to a different a country and spend it I suppose say when buying a new graphics card with it or insert any item of value you want to buy. Even then, when you fly back home, customs will want to know what is in your bag... so I still don't see a way around it though.

Crypto is a commodity, so the tax on it can go as high they deem necessary. No different than cigarettes having very high tax rates. I expect within 4 years we will see a 45% tax rate on every transaction of crypto from any business on United States soil. Fiat will never let itself be undermined.

If you can improve your generational wealth through a real estate purchase now, I would say do that first and foremost. That is how true generational stable wealth is created. Every rich family in England, well majority of them, inherited house from this person or that person, and so all the money they made at their regular job was bank. No rent fee = game changer.

I respect thinking and I think before the bubble bursts its just about how much of a profit or how much cash you want from what you've put into it.

I'm very lucky, I know this and I know some are on the opposite side of that and aren't lucky at all, but I think like now for us, being in a position of being able to hold/sale, if something did change and I needed some cash right here and now, I know I'd have little to no worries getting something. The lack of any debt at all is such an amazing feeling and I think that has been my game changer of late

Need to buy a bigger house sooner or later... Might as well try and make things count As he says in Deadpool, Maximum Effort, before walking off a bridge.......

 

[Space Lynx]

I respect thinking and I think before the bubble bursts its just about how much of a profit or how much cash you want from what you've put into it.

I'm very lucky, I know this and I know some are on the opposite side of that and aren't lucky at all, but I think like now for us, being in a position of being able to hold/sale, if something did change and I needed some cash right here and now, I know I'd have little to no worries getting something. The lack of any debt at all is such an amazing feeling and I think that has been my game changer of late

Need to buy a bigger house sooner or later... Might as well try and make things count As he says in Deadpool, Maximum Effort, before walking off a bridge.......

Yep, try not to hold out for a giant manor is all I am saying. Guess what, if fiat busts and crypto busts, so what if you own your own land and house 100% paid for. You can weather any storm if your land allows you to put a small greenhouse there too and grow veggies, etc. Real estate is the ultimate form of currency.

That's true wealth there. The land owners of history are the ones who forge all currencies and has been since as far as I can remember reading any of the history books.

 

[R-T-B]

I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea.

And you might be right. But at this point it's risk vs reward for me. As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose. And my potential reward is much larger with holding.

 

[Space Lynx]

And you might be right. But at this point it's risk vs reward for me. As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose. And my potential reward is much larger with holding.

My advice varies person to person honestly, for example, if you already own your own land and house 100% (not a renter) and it's fully paid for, hey knock yourself out and throw the other money around (just don't borrow any or risk losing the house). Real estate is king and always will be. lol

I mean if you think you have a chance of getting ahead in life, with not much risk if you lose what you are investing, then go for it. I never said that was bad. I simply think if you want long term flourishment, make sure you cash out and get real estate to make that long term flourishment possible. Don't hodl trying to become a millionaire. Again, my advice varies person to person, but has same general theme. lol

 

[trog100]

in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..

your thinking lynx only goes half way there..

i own my own house all my downstairs windows are brick proof polycaronate.. but i do know that if the bad guys want to rob me they will.. the brick proof windows are a direct result of the last time they did.. he he

i have an interesting video of the little sh-t actually doing it.. he climbed over my six foot high fence sauntered up to my kitchen window chucked a brick thru it climbed in did some robbing and was away all within five minutes.. he got nicked but that didnt help me.. he he

the brick proof windows may help the next time though... he he

trog

ps.. this happened at 9 am in the morning.. the little sh-t knew i had gone away the night before.. i watched him doing it from my RV/caravan 200 miles away.. he he

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

And you might be right. But at this point it's risk vs reward for me. As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose. And my potential reward is much larger with holding.

If it crashes, and I mean really crashes I will be a very sad person. But I bought all my BTC way, way back and used BTC to buy all the other crypto's I have. So I guess ultimately I will only be down my investment in BTC...however the unrealized loss would be staggering.

Was just reading about a guy who invested 400K in ETH @.8 way back. Can you imagine having the balls to drop 400k on something worth .8 and super volatile. That's 320,000 ETH and he is now worth $1.12B.

 

[Space Lynx]

If it crashes, and I mean really crashes I will be a very sad person. But I bought all my BTC way, way back and used BTC to buy all the other crypto's I have. So I guess ultimately I will only be down my investment in BTC...however the unrealized loss would be staggering.

Was just reading about a guy who invested 400K in ETH @.8 way back. Can you imagine having the balls to drop 400k on something worth .8 and super volatile. That's 320,000 ETH and he is now worth $1.12B.

This is no different than betting big on stock market or other investments, those who are already rich get richer (more you can risk losing bigger gains you might get). Also, I think you have the right way of thinking about it for your particular self.

in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..

your thinking lynx only goes half way there..

i own my own house all my downstairs windows are brick proof polycaronate.. but i do know that if the bad guys want to rob me they will.. the brick proof windows are a direct result of the last time they did.. he he

i have an interesting video of the little sh-t actually doing it.. he climbed over my six foot high fence sauntered up to my kitchen window chucked a brick thru it climbed in did some robbing and was away all within five minutes.. he got nicked but that didnt help me.. he he

the brick proof windows may help the next time though... he he

trog

ps.. this happened at 9 am in the morning.. the little sh-t knew i had gone away the night before.. i watched him doing it from my RV/caravan 200 miles away.. he he

Yep, investment into those motion detect/send video feed to phone cameras is priceless. Cost very little to boot.

 

[RandallFlagg]

in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..

your thinking lynx only goes half way there..

i own my own house all my downstairs windows are brick proof polycaronate.. but i do know that if the bad guys want to rob me they will.. the brick proof windows are a direct result of the last time they did.. he he

i have an interesting video of the little sh-t actually doing it.. he climbed over my six foot high fence sauntered up to my kitchen window chucked a brick thru it climbed in did some robbing and was away all within five minutes.. he got nicked but that didnt help me.. he he

the brick proof windows may help the next time though... he he

trog

ps.. this happened at 9 am in the morning.. the little sh-t knew i had gone away the night before.. i watched him doing it from my RV/caravan 200 miles away.. he he

Land is an interesting topic. What most of us plebes think of ownership of land is actually based on Feudalism. Serfs were allowed to live on and farm land, in exchange for paying the Duke or Lord a rent.

Eventually this rent morphed into something else. A property tax.

Land is one of the few forms of wealth that can legally be taken from you if you do not pay to keep it.

Just saying..

 

[Space Lynx]

Land is an interesting topic. What most of us plebes think of ownership of land is actually based on Feudalism. Serfs were allowed to live on and farm land, in exchange for paying the Duke or Lord a rent.

Eventually this rent morphed into something else. A property tax.

Land is one of the few forms of wealth that can legally be taken from you if you do not pay to keep it.

Just saying..

Yeah but property tax is directly correlated to the incomes of your local area. So as long as you buy a modest home, for example our property tax is 750 bucks ayear and we have a decent chunk of land, government wouldn't be able to triple that over night, because it would bankrupt most people around here. Also, the city council of your local town/county sets the property tax value not the Feds. So people would be in uproar and vote those local people out of office if they raised it to high.

So real estate is still the best option for long term security/flourishment. Yeah if you go buy a 500 grand home, then have bad fortune down the road you might lose it all true. That's why you always stick with modesty, and stack the rest and retire early. As I have been saying all along.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Yeah but property tax is directly correlated to the incomes of your local area. So as long as you buy a modest home, for example our property tax is 750 bucks ayear and we have a decent chunk of land, government wouldn't be able to triple that over night, because it would bankrupt most people around here. Also, the city council of your local town/county sets the property tax value not the Feds. So people would be in uproar and vote those local people out of office if they raised it to high.

So real estate is still the best option for long term security/flourishment. Yeah if you go buy a 500 grand home, then have bad fortune down the road you might lose it all true. That's why you always stick with modesty, and stack the rest and retire early. As I have been saying all along.

I agree, but if TSHTF property is not safe.

What's the property tax on your house if its value goes to $1 Million. $10 million? $100 million?

And taxes themselves are not constant. They increase all the time. Top tax rate in 1913 when income taxes were passed in the US were 7%. Property taxes all over the US have been going up in the same manner for many years. About the only place you can escape that and preserve your wealth in property is... California.

California is an interesting one. Lived there for 2 1/2 years. Despite its reputation as a progressive / liberal state, Taxation in California is entirely regressive, it's almost all use \ consumption tax and income tax which is to say it taxes the poor and middle class to death and can leave the truly wealthy - I mean people who have enough that they have to work another day in their life to live a decent life - relatively unscathed if they are smart. That's because of their property tax system.

Prop 13 in CA (from 1975) :

1. limited property taxes to one percent of full cash value

2. required property to be valued at its value on March 1, 1975 or on the date it changes hands or is constructed after that date.

3. limited subsequent value adjustment in value to 2 percent per year or the rate of inflation, whichever is lesser.

4. prohibited the imposition of sales or transaction taxes on the sale of real estate.

 

[Space Lynx]

I agree, but if TSHTF property is not safe.

What's the property tax on your house if its value goes to $1 Million. $10 million? $100 million?

And taxes themselves are not constant. They increase all the time. Top tax rate in 1913 when income taxes were passed in the US were 7%. Property taxes all over the US have been going up in the same manner for many years. About the only place you can escape that and preserve your wealth in property is... California.

California is an interesting one. Lived there for 2 1/2 years. Despite its reputation as a progressive / liberal state, Taxation in California is entirely regressive, it's almost all use \ consumption tax and income tax which is to say it taxes the poor and middle class to death and can leave the truly wealthy - I mean people who have enough that they have to work another day in their life to live a decent life - relatively unscathed if they are smart. That's because of their property tax system.

Prop 13 in CA (from 1975) :

1. limited property taxes to one percent of full cash value

2. required property to be valued at its value on March 1, 1975 or on the date it changes hands or is constructed after that date.

3. limited subsequent value adjustment in value to 2 percent per year or the rate of inflation, whichever is lesser.

4. prohibited the imposition of sales or transaction taxes on the sale of real estate.

I feel like there are to many poor people in my area for that value to ever increase too much, but I get your point generationally speaking.

and I had no idea about that regarding California property taxes... lol we pay more in property taxes here by a lot in redneck area I live in, very far right wing state. boy I tell you, both parties are a scam. part of me hopes Crypto does go to the moon now. that's pathetic.

oddly enough the ancient Stoics believed in a single cosmopolitan society, no single nation state but a citizen of Earth mentality. crypto is the only thing that can actually make that dream come true. still, I feel it's to late for me to invest the tiny amount I could, it just wouldn't generate enough to be worth the tax forms I'd have to fill out next year. so I still think I will pass sadly.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I feel like there are to many poor people in my area for that value to ever increase too much, but I get your point generationally speaking.

and I had no idea about that regarding California property taxes... lol we pay more in property taxes here by a lot in redneck area I live in, very far right wing state. boy I tell you, both parties are a scam. part of me hopes Crypto does go to the moon now. that's pathetic.

oddly enough the ancient Stoics believed in a single cosmopolitan society, no single nation state but a citizen of Earth mentality. crypto is the only thing that can actually make that dream come true. still, I feel it's to late for me to invest the tiny amount I could, it just wouldn't generate enough to be worth the tax forms I'd have to fill out next year. so I still think I will pass sadly.

Yes they are (a scam). I've lived in a lot of states, Tennessee, Florida, Virginia, Wisconsin, California, and Texas. The so-called "liberal" states have taxation that is the most regressive, meaning it taxes consumption and wages including things like making you pay for a bag at the grocery store, or an extra +10c for a bottle of soda because plastic / recycling or some such excuse. It cost me $800 use tax back in 2008 just to bring my car into CA, on top of the normal fees. The "conservative" states tend to tax wealth via high property tax, and have lower consumption and wage taxes. So it's actually quite 'livable' to be lower 50% income in most red states, while the blue states have their armies of homeless.

 

[R-T-B]

The so-called "liberal" states have taxation that is the most regressive, meaning it taxes consumption and wages including things like making you pay for a bag at the grocery store

Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us. They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables. According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.

There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it. Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.

while the blue states have their armies of homeless.

Could be because we fund the food banks.

Making this blindly partisan is stupid though.

 

[Space Lynx]

Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us. They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables. According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.

There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it. Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.


Could be because we fund the food banks.

Making this blindly partisan is stupid though.

I don't think he was making it partisan, just explaining his experience. Red states due tend to have lower taxes that benefit the poor, lower gas prices, lower food prices. Which does help the poor more. That being said I went to the grocery store two days ago, pound of beef is now 7.50... it used to be 3.99 less than two years ago... milk, everything has skyrocketed... insane. it's much much cheaper to go eat at dollar menu at fast food...

scary times.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us. They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables. According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.

There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it. Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.

If you don't think that is regressive, then you do not know what a regressive tax is.

If I make 10 million / year, I don't give a rats ass about spending an extra 1.00 a week on grocery bags - it is 0.0000052% of my income.
I also don't care about paying $15/day in tollway fees. $15/day for 240 "working days" (If I work) is 3600/year or 0.036% of my income
I also don't care about paying paying an extra 2.5% sales tax on what I buy, since what I buy is a small part of my income. If I spend 50,000 per year on consumption locally, this comes out to $1250 per year extra which is .0125% of my income. Negligible.
What I will care about is paying an extra 1.5% property tax every year on my $30 million home. That comes out to $450,000 / year. It's a good thing I don't live in Texas.

If I make $40,000 a year, spending $52/year on grocery bags is .13% of my income. I begin to care.
If I spend $5000 a year on consumption items, the extra 2.5% sales tax is $125 or 0.3125% of my income. Its 25X larger percentage of my income than the guy making 10mil / year pays spending 10X what I spend.
Spending $15/day in tollway fees is 9% of my income. This is impactful.
At $40k/year I can't afford a house in CA at this wage. It's a good thing I live in California or I'd have to pay those high Texas property taxes..

Could be because we fund the food banks.

Making this blindly partisan is stupid though.

Cali has the largest below the poverty line population in the USA when you adjust it for cost of living. That is why they have so many homeless. It's nearly one in five.

TRUE: California has the nation’s highest poverty rate

California’s job and economic growth has outpaced much of the nation in recent years. That growth, however, has not elim

www.politifact.com

I don't think he was making it partisan, just explaining his experience. Red states due tend to have lower taxes that benefit the poor, lower gas prices, lower food prices. Which does help the poor more. That being said I went to the grocery store two days ago, pound of beef is now 7.50... it used to be 3.99 less than two years ago... milk, everything has skyrocketed... insane. it's much much cheaper to go eat at dollar menu at fast food...

scary times.

Wut.. I need to go to the grocery store, wife does that normally but the bill has been high. Last time I payed attention I thought beef was like $1.75 / lb or something.

 

[Space Lynx]

Wut.. I need to go to the grocery store, wife does that normally but the bill has been high. Last time I payed attention I thought beef was like $1.75 / lb or something.

nope I looked at all of the packages, every single one measured 1 or 1.2 pounds, and the price tag was 6 even for the 1 pound 80/20, but 7.50 for the 90/10. still prices have gone insane.

I won't be surprised if entire civilization collapses within ten years honestly. when you calculate in more climate disasters and mass migrations incoming faster than anyone expected, and left wing government opening their arms wide in declaring areas emergency and needing of aid... we can only print and raise the debt ceiling for so long before this big experiment of never paying back our debt collapses. we haven't even paid for the wars we did in the 90's.... not sure why I am the only one alarmed by this fact. lol

imagine if monarchies of old could just have endless wars and print money out of thin air, making sure a certain part of the population stayed slaves for min wage (their equivalent of agriculture workers in monarchy times cause on min wage all you can afford to do is eat anyway) King Henry VIII would have had one hell of a time. lol

 

[RandallFlagg]

imagine if monarchies of old could just have endless wars and print money out of thin air, making sure a certain part of the population stayed slaves for min wage (their equivalent of agriculture workers in monarchy times cause on min wage all you can afford to do is eat anyway) King Henry VIII would have had one hell of a time. lol

That kind of brings us back to topic

Many many have tried fiat currencies in the past, even Rome tried it and it failed over the course of a hundred years or so. I would imagine that very few people are aware that our currency has only been 'fiat' for a little under 40 years 50 years. Most of what I've read about fiat currency is that they can in fact last a long time - many decades and even a few centuries.

Found this bit of information :

“According to a study of 775 fiat currencies by DollarDaze.org, there is no historical precedence for a fiat currency that has succeeded in holding its value.
...
The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years, with the shortest life span being one month. Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it’s worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.”

 

[R-T-B]

If you don't think that is regressive, then you do not know what a regressive tax is.

Presumably, not something levied by the grocery store?

I think the key word was "tax"

If I make $40,000 a year, spending $52/year on grocery bags is

Hoarding. Another key word was "reusable"

Also the bags cost 5 cents.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Presumably, not something levied by the grocery store?

I think the key word was "tax"


Hoarding. Another key word was "reusable"

Also the bags cost 5 cents.

There is an excuse for every regressive tax out there, usually pitting environmentalists or some other such group against the well-being of working class and poor. Every time I have looked into such things, and sometimes just by happenstance, it all comes to money.

The pulp and paper industry in your state supported the tax, now didn't they. And the cost of the bag is taxed, isn't it. So a big industry in WA state, and the Gov't, get more money - mostly from poor people. You can color it any way you like but that is the bottom line. It is a regressive tax in alignment with a big state industry.

It amazes me that people actually think politicians are altruistic. Everything comes down to money and power, that's the only reason these people every do anything, red or blue.

 

[Space Lynx]

I think you both are getting away from the bigger picture and issue here, don't let small arguments about bags distract you from the core problems that effect everyone.

off-topic: hard drive prices have skyrocketed... looks like Chia is taking off after all... sigh. when will this nightmare end...

 

[64K]

we haven't even paid for the wars we did in the 90's.... not sure why I am the only one alarmed by this fact. lol

You are not the only one my friend. I bring this up from time to time. How foolish our government is for playing "World Police" and putting it all on National Debt. The USA spent around 6 trillion dollars on wars in the Middle East and trying to turn countries into Democracies that never wanted to be Democracies to begin with. Something had to be done about Al Qaeda but it could have been done for much, much less than that amount. We do have Special Forces. Not only have we not repaid that debt but we have added trillions and trillions onto the National Debt since then. When I bring the National Debt up to people they just stare at me with a dull look on their face.

I needed to put in that last paragraph to point out that if the world's economies do go to shit then I don't think crypto-currency is a hedge to save your own butt. How is anyone going to use it if you have no internet because of chaos? I don't ever advise anyone to buy or sell anything in the markets but I do advise people to buy some easily identifiable gold such as American Gold Eagles. Gold has always been considered money since history began. In fact it's the only real money. Just don't go overboard on it. No more than 5% of your investments and don't buy Gold ETFs. That's nothing but gold on paper. It will be worthless if the economy goes down the drain. Buy physical gold. Our brains are hard-wired to desire gold. It and things that can be bartered for necessities in order to live will be money if things actually do get that bad.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Fiat will never let itself be undermined.

As much as I would hate to ever see it happen, it can and will happen. Given how currency is printed and not backed by anything, its only a matter of time; especially with how intertwined and dependent economies have become on each other. Also, big businesses and many of the wealthy who control such businesses want globalization. You can't really do it(at least nicely) when there exists a bunch of different currencies with different value tied to its respective economy.

"Evil evil from cracks they teem,
When will you wake from this nightmarish dream"

 

[phill]

Yep, try not to hold out for a giant manor is all I am saying. Guess what, if fiat busts and crypto busts, so what if you own your own land and house 100% paid for. You can weather any storm if your land allows you to put a small greenhouse there too and grow veggies, etc. Real estate is the ultimate form of currency.

That's true wealth there. The land owners of history are the ones who forge all currencies and has been since as far as I can remember reading any of the history books.

The joys of owning your own home, regardless of where it might be... You save a chunk of cash each month and you can live smiling that every year more or less, you house price has risen...

I don't know of anything more profitable than Eth mining at the moment, obviously depending on the size of what you have but if you could cover your electric with a single 0.1 payout of coin and then maybe make a coin (1.0) on top of that, you are in effect earning 1000%.. I don't believe there's anything you can currently buy/invest in etc. that is anywhere near close. Savings account, shares and such, I don't believe come close to 10% returns on most of it, obviously there's exceptions but still.... What's spending some electric on your PC (can even run WCG or Rosetta whilst you've got it on! hint ) and make some money from it?