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Bitcoins!

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Why would I sell you a 250 GH/s machine for even $50k? I could mine at the very least that much in a month!
An ASIC design would be incredibly expensive to only build a couple of. Mass production brings the cost down.

If I had to guess, they're selling these because once they hit, difficulty will go up and mined production will go down. Transaction fees that pay the rewards are a fixed value. Your share of that value depends on your ability to be better than everyone else. Once these hit, the "average" will rise. Everyone spending money on expensive ASIC machines are doing so just to keep up with the average.
 
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But I don't care about the production cost, seeing how sheep keep throwing money at me even after I don't deliver for a god damn year and a half! So I have money to spare for development and low-production runs.

I ask again, why slay the golden goose, just to get one egg out of it?

Never. Gonna. Happen.
 
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But I don't care about the production cost, seeing how sheep keep throwing money at me even after I don't deliver for a god damn year and a half! So I have money to spare for development and low-production runs.

I ask again, why slay the golden goose, just to get one egg out of it?

Never. Gonna. Happen.
The core problem is that the ASIC miners are underpriced for what they do. That $20000 miner on eBay might be overpriced but it shouldn't be selling for its MSRP either. There is not enough incentive for the manufacturers to sell them compared to using them for themselves. There will eventually be a price where it the expected gain (counting in all the risks) of using the ASICs to mine coins is less or equal to that of selling the ASICs, but the current prices of the ASIC miners don't justify this yet.
 
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I hope none of you have coins in mt. gox. a lot can happen to bitcoin value in 2 weeks! Though I guess you can withdraw in other currencies. I wonder what this is really about

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130620.html

TOKYO - JAPAN - June 20th, 2013

Over the past weeks Mt. Gox has experienced rising volumes of deposits and withdrawals from established and upcoming markets interested in Bitcoin. This increased volume has made it difficult for our bank to process the transactions smoothly and within a timely manner, which has created unnecessary delays for our global customers. This is especially so for those in the United States who are requesting wire transfer withdrawals from their accounts.

We are currently making improvements to process withdrawals of United States Dollar (USD) denominations, and as a result are temporarily suspending cash withdrawals of USD for the next two weeks.

Please be reassured that USD deposits and transfers to Mt. Gox will remain unaffected, as will deposits and withdrawals in other currencies, and we will be resuming USD withdrawals once the process is completed.

We apologize for any inconvenience this causes our U.S. customers in the meantime, and look forward to resuming withdrawal service as well as debuting a dramatically improved trading engine which will be launching very soon.



Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.
 
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I use campbx myself. I got tired of gox's shenanigans weeks ago.

For someone who is supposedly against bitcoins you sure seem to pay attention to it more than I do.
 
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I use campbx myself. I got tired of gox's shenanigans weeks ago.

For someone who is supposedly against bitcoins you sure seem to pay attention to it more than I do.
I've been reading another thread that laughs at how ridiculous bitcoiners can be on sites like bitcointalk and even reddit. People getting scammed, FYGM people defending the scammers, people who think bitcoins are the future of currency. It is all really quite hilarious. Pretty much anything entertaining gets posted. That said I don't like to watch TPUers get scammed so I come here to discourage them from investing :toast:
 
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I've been reading another thread that laughs at how ridiculous bitcoiners can be on sites like bitcointalk and even reddit. People getting scammed, FYGM people defending the scammers, people who think bitcoins are the future of currency. It is all really quite hilarious. Pretty much anything entertaining gets posted. That said I don't like to watch TPUers get scammed so I come here to discourage them from investing :toast:
Bitcointalk is a joke. I got good laughs from it either. Look up the pirate bitcoin scandal if you want a real scam.

I have invested in bitcoins myself and have made a good bit. I only wish I had more to invest. As long as your smart about it and all that.
 
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only way i see to make money is to rent out servers.. i used to do bitcoin mining, but i find the trading to euros realy hard, even as i cant pay with gold at my local stores..
 
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The week in bitcoin. I'm starting to see a trend!
 
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LOL! You are such a troll man...
Trolling a bitcoin thread, impossible!? I've been posting about how bitcoin is a bad investment and have graphs to back it up
 
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Maybe the bitcoin wiki should be added to the OP? It has a lot of good information

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bitcoin
The interesting bit about Bitcoin is that it is entirely decentralised; there is no central bank backing. Previous virtual currencies, such as E-Gold, Flooz, Beenz, Lindens or WoW gold, have always had an organisation behind them. This lack of central bank backing means that, were governments to try to do something about it, they would not have a central point of attack.

Bitcoins are entirely imaginary currency (i.e. they have no use-value), but not particularly more so than US dollars, and could be a general currency if 300 million people similarly behaved as though it was one, i.e., would do work in exchange for it.[3] Its biggest problem as an exchange medium is that it is not widely accepted, and that trading is thus very thin indeed.
Bitcoin is also an environmental disaster, using 982 megawatt-hours a day literally wasted on computing hashes. That's about 31,000 homes or half a Large Hadron Collider, spent producing nothing of actual value. (Thus, Bitcoin runs on libertarians externalising their costs to others.) If only someone had come up with a distributed currency based on protein folding.
The trouble with reimplementing the gold standard in the 21st century is that financial attacks, just like cryptographic attacks, don't get less effective with time — if you apply attacks evolved in a hundred years of Red Queen's race against regulation, then remove the regulation, the subeconomy in question is utterly defenceless. As one quant on HackerNews outlined:

"Bitcoin takes the monetary system back essentially a hundred years. We know how to beat that system. In fact, we know how to nuke it for profit. Bitcoin is volatile, inherently deflationary and has no lender of last resort. Cornering and squeezing would work well - they use mass in a finite trading space. Modern predatory algos like bandsaw (testing markets by raising and suddenly dropping prices), sharktooth (electronically front-running orders), and band-burst (creating self-perpetuating volatile equilibria in a leverage-sensitive trading space, e.g. an inherently deflationary one), would rapidly wreak havoc. There is also a part of me that figures regulators will turn a blind eye to Bitcoin shenanigans."
And my personal favourite...

In order to prop up the initial system, Bitcoin "mining" was designed to bribe early users with exponentially better rewards than latecomers could get for the same effort. This effectively makes Bitcoin a pump-and-dump scheme wherein these early adopters, who have more bitcoins than anyone else ever will, hype it up so they can offload their bitcoins onto fools who think they'll strike it rich as speculators, or whomever else will accept them as payment. Basically, this means the system runs on opportunism, especially among people who like the idea of decentralized techno-money. Although this setup is defended as an acceptable trade-off and/or a fair reward for propping up the system,[36] this presumes that it will actually result in a widespread, reliable currency.

In the meantime, speculators and opportunists remain Bitcoin's main users: only 22% of existing Bitcoins are in circulation at all, there are a total of 75 active users/businesses with any kind of volume, the Mt. Gox exchange is responsible for 90% of all Bitcoin transactions ever, one (unidentified) user owns a quarter of all Bitcoins in existence, and one large owner is trying to hide their wealth accumulation by moving it around in thousands of smaller transactions. But go on, dive in and get rich.
 
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"What has bitcoin been up down to in the last 24 hours?" one might ask. A man has an answer!

 
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How about I compare these to show the point I was trying to convey my point when I did a poor job before.

All data of bitcoins price ever. The Bitcoin bubble of 2013 really dominates the graph.


Bitcoin from beginning to 8-1-2009. Bitcoin bubble 2011 dominates this graph.


They look almost identical. I bet bitcoin will come back but only after dropping really really low like it did before. Bitcoin is a risk. If you are too scared to lose the money then don't invest. I await the bitcoin bubble of 2015 where bitcoin reaches $3000 :pimp:. First big bubble max was about $30. Second bubble max was short of $300, next bubble.... or wont just to throw me off.
 
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How about I compare these to show the point I was trying to convey my point when I did a poor job before.

All data of bitcoins price ever. The Bitcoin bubble of 2013 really dominates the graph.
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/cha...25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

Bitcoin from beginning to 8-1-2009. Bitcoin bubble 2011 dominates this graph.
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/cha...25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

They look almost identical. I bet bitcoin will come back but only after dropping really really low like it did before. Bitcoin is a risk. If you are too scared to lose the money then don't invest. I await the bitcoin bubble of 2015 where bitcoin reaches $3000 :pimp:. First big bubble max was about $30. Second bubble max was short of $300, next bubble.... or wont just to throw me off.
Only a bitcoiner could think that a market crash of something they are invested in is a good thing. Presuming your theory is correct and that it will hit rock-bottom only to sky rocket again to $3000 :wtf::laugh: Wouldn't it make sense to sell your stock of bitcoins at $130 each then buy in again at $2 each?

If 409,000 (of 11 million) bitcoins are sold the market value will hit 0 based on mt.gox's dollar charts.

The trend continues!
 
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Only a bitcoiner could think that a market crash of something they are invested in is a good thing. Presuming your theory is correct and that it will hit rock-bottom only to sky rocket again to $3000 :wtf::laugh: Wouldn't it make sense to sell your stock of bitcoins at $130 each then buy in again at $2 each?

If 409,000 (of 11 million) bitcoins are sold the market value will hit 0 based on mt.gox's dollar charts.

The trend continues!
http://i.imgur.com/r8Gaab4.png
I was simply saying this has happened before and it could go up again or not.
 
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And the pyramid scheme begins to unfold...

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-t...nity-and-make-its-future-uncertain/2013/06/30

How the Bitcoin 1% manipulate the currency, deceive its user community, and make its future uncertain
photo of Michel Bauwens

Michel Bauwens
30th June 2013


Excerpted from Stanislav Datskovskiy:

” One of the world’s greatest cryptographers, Adi Shamir, published the following analysis:

- “We discovered that almost all these large transactions were the descendants of a single large transaction involving 90,000 Bitcoins which took place on November 8th 2010, and that the subgraph of these transactions contains many strange looking chains and fork-merge structures, in which a large balance is either transferred within a few hours through hundreds of temporary intermediate accounts, or split into many small amounts which are sent to different accounts only in order to be recombined shortly afterwards into essentially the same amount in a new account.” (source: Dorit Ron and Adi Shamir, Quantitative Analysis of the Full Bitcoin Transaction Graph.”

Most bitcoins are, in fact, in the hands of a very few people. Are you surprised? I’m not.

We also learn that, of the approximately 9 million bitcoins which currently exist, less than 2 million actually circulate – that is, change hands with any appreciable frequency:

- “It is remarkable that 97% of all owners had fewer than 10 transactions each, while 75 owners use the network very often and are affiliated with at least 5,000 transactions.”

And it would appear that most of the non-circulating coins are in the hands of a very small number of people – who, one may reasonably suspect, were involved from with building and propagandising Bitcoin from its very beginning. So, who are the lords of Bitcoin?


The most damning fact revealed in the paper is not the extreme top-heaviness of the Bitcoin ownership pyramid, but rather the elaborate lengths to which the hoarders went in order to conceal their existence from “rank and file” users. Think of it! Hundreds of thousands of shill accounts, with vast rivers of wealth moving back and forth – for one purpose only: to deceive. None of it was done by accident.


Bitcoin turns out to be something other than the fully-decentralized, unkillable network which so many imagined it to be.

People who have invested serious time and wealth in Bitcoin ought to feel angry. Not from any abstract sense of fair play, but from the simple fact that Ron and Shamir’s findings reveal a serious – and quite mathematically-certain – flaw in the sytem. The total number of bitcoins in actual circulation is much smaller than previously believed. If the early adopters were to cash out and place their hoards on the market, the exchange rates (as denominated in anything) would dive through the floor, never to recover. The hoarders, in effect, possess an off switch for Bitcoin.

Whether and under what circumstances they would press the switch, I cannot say. But the Bitcoin kill switch exists.

So, what, if anything, could be done about it? Unfortunately, the one solution which I can think of (other than the idiotic head-in-the-sand solution of not giving a damn, which the Bitcoin user community seems to favour) is a rather unlikely one, and would be quite distasteful – on a gut level – to most users. I am speaking, of course, of proscription. If the Bitcoin community – or a reasonable subset thereof – agreed that the kill switch ought to be neutralized by any means possible, it would be a fairly straightforward matter to declare the hoarders persona non grata and collectively agree to use modified Bitcoin clients (let’s call them Bitcoin-P) which act as if the particular coins currently held by A, C-F, H-K, and M-S were not bitcoins at all. And that such pseudo-coins will never be accepted as genuine in trade for any good or service. In effect, they would be retroactively shitcoined for all time.

But I am under no illusions that Bitcoin-P will ever happen, given the libertarian bent of most Bitcoin users. They will mutter of dekulakization and the like. Fine, lose your hard-earned wealth to a pyramid scheme operator at some unspecified future date. But if you like the idea of decentralized cryptocurrencies without built-in kill switches
 
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I agree, that could be a problem. What that article neglects to mention though is that many of these coins not in circulation are in wallets whose passwords have been permanently forgotten. A lot of early adopters mined coins (it was easy to accumulate a lot of them in the beginning) then gave up in the first few years and lost their wallets or forgot their passwords. These coins can never be redeemed. So while the number may indicate that 80% of the coins could be redeemed one day and crash the market, I doubt many of those are actually accessible.
 
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You are missing out on such a helpful site...
http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/

I also watch http://bitcoinity.org/markets and bitcoincharts.com

I've "invested" in btc, not a ton but I did build a mining rig and buy a few a while back. It was fun watching the ~$32 crash and then again the $266 crash. Its like the stock market, it will go up and down and at the end of the day I still have nothing physical to look at (yes I know stocks represent a physical company with physical assets).

My thoughts on the whole thing are if it can take the currency away from government inflation (even a little bit) it might one day be an alternate international currency. I've invested as much as I'm willing to lose, hell I've bought an ASCII miner with bitcoins (at $18 a coin, oosp!) but thats from what I've already put in not an additional investment.
At this point my GPUs are mining litecoins, not much point in using them for btc anymore. If supporting the concept of a distributed currency is a bad thing then I guess I'm bad. But if one day we have a digital currency that has checks and balances then I think that could be a good thing.
 
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Honestly, tell me if this doesn't look like market manipulation. This all happened in FIVE MINUTES.
 
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Honestly, tell me if this doesn't look like market manipulation. This all happened in FIVE MINUTES.
http://i.imgur.com/o4u9Fd7.png
LoL, I never said the market wasn't being manipulated. That has been happening since people really found out about btc. I remember a week that the trade variance (the whole week) wasn't more than 20 cents.
Like I said, I didn't put in more than I was willing to lose. Digital currency has a lot to learn. Hopefully this testbed will teach us a lot and if those of us that did get involved are lucky btc will be viable for something long term.
My investment is a 5 year goal, you have no idea how hard it was to not sell out at $255. So from the end of 2011 to the end of 2016 all I can do is watch, laugh, and hope it was worth it if not monetarily then at least as a test bed for something better.
 
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LoL, I never said the market wasn't being manipulated. That has been happening since people really found out about btc. I remember a week that the trade variance (the whole week) wasn't more than 20 cents.
Like I said, I didn't put in more than I was willing to lose. Digital currency has a lot to learn. Hopefully this testbed will teach us a lot and if those of us that did get involved are lucky btc will be viable for something long term.
My investment is a 5 year goal, you have no idea how hard it was to not sell out at $255. So from the end of 2011 to the end of 2016 all I can do is watch, laugh, and hope it was worth it if not monetarily then at least as a test bed for something better.
So you are comfortable investing in something that you know is being manipulated? If you're wanting to donate money to something there are charities out there that can do a lot more than a bitcoin investment.

If you think you are being a 'noble entrapeneur' by investing in bitcoin, well a lot of people prey on those type of people. Let me ask you, how many bitcoins did you invest in your ASIC miner? How much would that be worth at today's value? There are people out there that literally lost hundreds of thousands of dollars for ASIC miners that to this day, 1 year later, haven't been delivered to their doorstep.

As more and more drug/weapon dealers on the silk road get busted I think you will see bitcoin die off. But it seems like they are being replaced by wallstreet/marketing gurus that know just how to give a worthless item perceived value. Just look at the Winklevoss bitcoin investment portfolio. Jebus.
 
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