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Bitcoins!

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I'm glad I am coming across clearly then! Yes I find bitcoin to be an awful thing and actively suggest to people not to use it. Do you know what happens when someone steals my credit card/bank card? I get a call telling me it has been stolen and they send a new one via mail, all charges (if any) are reimbursed and the guy who stole it normally goes to jail. Guess what happens if someone steals your bitcoin wallet. Also guess what happens if the bank I have money stored in goes bankrupt. Let me tell you it turns out nothing like the Mt. Gox situation. People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.
I'd hardly say it was one of the bigger losses in history. Just look at the Lehman brothers back in 08 when they filed for bankruptcy with over $600 billion worth of assets. I think another way of looking at bitcoin at this juncture is that it is a useable 'share' that you might find on the ASX or NYSE etc that you can use to purchase goods and services.

As far as the loss of funds are concerned that is down to Bitcoin still being quite an immature currency. Life is unfair sometimes. For example, I took an $11000AUD loss on my first car after selling it after 4 months due to a faulty DSG gearbox in it (VW Polo TDI DSG - DQ200 gearbox issue). VW would not admit to it being a problem, but just google DQ200 DSG problems and you'll see that it is a worldwide issue. Am I going to get that $11000AUD back? unfortunately no, the class action against VW was pulled as there was no way we could beat a multi-billion if not trillion dollar company in court.

Although with the Bitcoin MasterCard now available it will be interesting to see how that pans out with fraud and if the banks associated with the card will pay up if fraud occurs to a client/customer. Also I think if people understand the risks (and benefits) associated with the usage of bitcoins, then I see no issue with Bitcoin. You could say that anyone using bitcoin at this juncture are beta testers/early adopters for the currency.

---

I didn't even realise this exists. It is great for the currency though, providing jobs etc.
http://www.coindesk.com/europes-first-bitcoin-centre-open-france/
 
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Let me tell you it turns out nothing like the Mt. Gox situation. People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.
That is chump change compared to market crashes, or even day to day trades on Wall Street. You put a lot of faith in things like FDIC, which doesn't guarantee the entirety of a banks investments, because it halfway works for now. The people of Greece and Cyprus wouldn't hold your same high regard to government bailouts. Hell, even in the USA, the only bailouts go to the ultra elite. From your posts you don't seem to fit that category, more likely someone who works for or has a buddy at H & R Block.
 
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Isn't this like the third time we have gone through this circle NinkobEie? I think you just like to argue, which typically is trollish behavior.

We get bitcoin has flaws, we know and understand them better than most because we use bitcoins. RTB and I have both said we don't find its use as a currency to great. In my opinion bitcoin fails to be a good store of value because of its inherent instability. I also think bitcoin will one in a long long while be replaced by something superior. What will it be, we don't know yet.

I am glad your brought up visa, because that is typically one of my points of what bitcoin is better at. Bitcoin is a really really cool protocol. It does everything that visa and mastercard does. Except instead of being centralized, it is distributed and transparent so everyone can see what address has what money. You can argue whether that is good or bad, but you have made the point that you don't think bitcoin could do it. Currently bitcoin processes about 50,000-100,000 transactions a day. Bitcoin itself is also used significantly less than traditional currencies obviously, but it would scale with the transactions. Bitcoin is the most powerful distributed super computer, and the more popular bitcoin becomes, the more powerful the computing gets. Its all driven by profits.

I don't think any of us here would say that bitcoin is for everyone, at least not yet. If someone is scared, I would tell them to just ignore bitcoin. If they wanted to get involved in mining or speculation, I would say don't put in more than your willing to lose as with any speculation.
 
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If bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future, how do you expect people who can't afford a cell phones in developing countries to use it?
I'm not sure you are aware of this, but cell phones are currently more common than landlines in many (if not most) developing countries. If they can't get a cell phone, it is further arguable there is no way in hell they are worried about getting a visa.

I'm betting it's cheaper, easier, faster and a million times safer to use a visa than bitcoin.
What happens if VISA's servers get hacked and all credit card accounts wiped clean?

Even if you have a point on safety, you are dead wrong on every other point. Swipe fees are borderline ridicules. Transaction fees in bitcoin are minimal by comparison, and ease of use of bitcoin is quite simplistic.

I don't think bitcoin will replace cash. I think of it as an alternative way to transport money. They can and do coexist, this is it's most common use. Not drugs. I think you have a massively bad evaluation of it's technological potential to replace the current card transaction system.

Tell me what would happen if the bit chain suddenly had to handle a million transactions in a day. Then tell me what would happen when there are a million in an hour.
Nothing? I'm knowledgable of bitcoins source code and I can tell you they would just be compliled into a rather big block. Actually it wouldn't surprise me if there already are a million transactions per day.

Actually, I don't even need to demonstrate this, because it's already been done. A DDOS was attempted against source-code-similar litecoin, by sending millions of small "dust transactions." The network barely farted, and went on as usual. Most people don't even remember this part of history, and that was on a far smaller network with a nearly identical source code foundation.

Bitcoin doesn't have the infrastructure to ever be anything more than an investment for get-rich-quick pyramid schemers, scammers and drug dealers.
Jeeze, then I guess all the businesses in my area are drug dealers, eh?

Like it or not, that point is completely bogus and false. It has all the means and abilities to be an excellent currency transport for the internet, and from what I have seen, this is currently it's primary use. It doesn't have to REPLACE fiat. It's just a bridge. A very good bridge that acts fast. What's wrong with that?

I for one, have never spent a bitcoin in real life. I accept them though, and I get a lot of online business that way. It turns into USD and everyone is happy. I know this is mind-boggling, but I am neither a drug dealer nor a con artist. So there. It does have the infrastructure to be a lot more than a con-routine, who'd have thunk it?

Good luck to the people who think they will ever get their money back from Mt. Gox, because it ain't happening. That is a huge percentage of bitcoins down the drain.
Huge percentage? Please. Gox is largely irrelevant now. Only extremely old bitcoin users worked there. Bitcoin hurt more when the silk road was seized and the bitcoins publically auctioned. Actually people lost more money there, but no one cared because it was a drug marketplace...

People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.
In history? No. It is tragic regardless, but this is why you don't put your money in an exchange that stands for Magic The Gathering Online eXchange. It isn't wise... surprising? Not really. If they worked in USD it'd be no different. Actually they did, they were an exchange remember? People actually deposited USD there as well. Where'd they go? Your issue is with poor business practices like Gox, not bitcoin.

Bitcoin, when properly secured, is safe. The website says it and it's true. If you don't feel up to securing a wallet (most people don't, and that's ok) it's still plenty safe as a money transport... and very useful as such to do business with places visa and mastercard don't operate, or are prohibitively expensive. It also helps to keep them in line economically because people are getting sick of paying someone to use THEIR MONEY every time they swipe a card.


I really don't see what your issue is, save misunderstanding of what Bitcoin actually is. I'd advise you to reevaluate your position based on the fact that you seem to have very little knowledge about how it actually works, and seem to be taking more issue with poor business practices than the coin around which they are based... there have been plenty of USD ponzis too you know.

I rest my case. I want to emphasize though, I am not trying to disrespect you. I am only trying to point out where you are quite honestly misunderstanding the concept.

Oh, and relevant link:

http://ledracapital.com/blog/2014/2...sed-payment-system-being-rolled-out-worldwide
 
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Good news for those in the EU who seek a place for exchanging fiat/cryptos using SEPA bank transfer or iDeal etc., Litebit offers exchanging services starting at €15.

And those with older SHA-256 ASICs might wish to try mining Continuumcoin (CTM), if you manage to trade them for LTC at a reasonable price it might be more profitable than BTC/PPC mining. The only issue is its somewhat unsure future and the price dips (plus LTC/fiat exchanges are scarce in many regions).[/URL]
 
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Interesting article on PLEX vs Bitcoin
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/5/5677734/bitcoin-plex-isk-eve-online
Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson is the in-house economist at CCP Games, and part of his job is keeping Eve Online and its multiple currencies running smoothly. Eve Online and Dust 514 incorporate a series of virtual currencies, such as ISK, Auram and Plex, that are all interconnected and in some cases can be purchased, or sold for, actual currency

The value of PLEX, which is redeemed for one month of game time in Eve Online, is relatively stable. CCP has experimented with allowing players to purchase video cards with PLEX.

At Fanfest this year players could even purchase things around the convention center by converting their PLEX into "ISK Coins," plastic chips with CCP's logo on them that worked like real currency at certain vendors around the show.

In many ways PLEX has become a working currency, and CCP has tried some experiments using that currency outside of the game. The line between the game's economy and the "real" economy can sometimes grow blurry, and that's by design.

I sat down with Dr. Gudmundsson to discuss the currency and to talk a bit about bitcoin, the much-hyped "crypto currency" that has seen such volatility in the last few years. PLEX has stayed relatively stable and, although it can’t be used as payment in many places, it’s relatively easy to move "real" currency into, and in some cases out of, PLEX.

"I find it very interesting that people that are behind the cryptocurrencies, they seem to distrust governments. So they create a system that is supposed to be closed, just a fixed amount of money, and nobody can create fiat monies, no bankers will benefit from it. And yet, they don’t tell you who is behind it, and they’re telling you the code is secure," he told Polygon.

"I look at them say, ‘Don’t trust the governments,’ but they expect us to trust something because it’s code somebody wrote I don’t know who is. And there’s a notion of people who did this originally, who are sitting on millions and millions of bitcoins and will cash out at some point," Dr. Gudmundsson continued.

This is why bitcoin is so interesting when viewed through the lens of Eve Online: this is the cycle of all the classic in-game scams. A system is set up, value is promised, trust is gained and you may not know exactly who is behind any of it… and then the endgame comes when the masterminds cash out and everyone else loses everything.

Once the trust is there, they break the trust and profit from it

"And all of these stories could all come from Eve," Dr. Gudmundsson said. "People trying to figure out a scamming system that they will actually build some value, make people trust it, and once the trust is there, they break the trust and profit from it."

"I openly talk to people about that and specifically with people that are very enthusiastic about this being the next big wave, and I just ask, can you prove to me that this is not a scam? And they say yeah because the code is safe," he said.

"And I say, OK are you absolutely sure that this code can’t be changed, because I don’t know the code and I don’t know the technology behind the code, but I have to trust it to use it so how are they going to convince people all over the world that this is trustworthy if there is no government behind it?"

In the case of PLEX, the "government" behind the currency is CCP Games itself. Since the value of PLEX is one month of game time, and that one month has a set value, that unit of PLEX will always be tied that particular value. As long as people want to play the game PLEX will have value to them, so a strong game will lead to a strong value for PLEX.

"That’s the trust. They know if they buy a PLEX, the PLEX will be redeemable for ISK in the future," Dr. Gudmundsson explained. "They would rather keep a Plex on their account than too much ISK because ISK fluctuates in value as well. We have inflation in Eve, and that can change over time. So we can definitely say that the trust that we have from the players is a big part of the success."

CCP Games has a selfish desire to keep PLEX stable; as the value of PLEX is an indicator in interest in the game and the amount of people who want to play it. Governments also have a desire to keep the economy stable and to provide certain protections against things such as money laundering, fraud and tax evasion.

The people who designed bitcoin? That’s an open question, and if you look at bitcoin through the same lens of virtual currencies in Eve Online, bitcoin is in the stage that takes place right before the scammers cash out. This is, of course, operating under the assumption that the real world will mirror the in-game economy of a title about online space ships.
 
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That was an interesting article. He mentions not knowing the code and trust. I have not looked at the code, and if I was too I am not educated in code so I would not even understand it. I personally do trust that there are enough coders out there as popular as bitcoin is that would of poped up and said something if there was something hidden in there. That is where the trust comes in for bitcoin, it is open source.

Awhile back there was a guy, at a black hat conference that proved that bitcoin was very very far from anonymous and how easy it was to figure out which individual owned the the address. You should look up that video @NinkobEi
 
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I'm not sure if I fully support this but anyway;
Australian-based company sinks $US30 million into Australia's first bitcoin investment fund
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/54...into_australia_first_bitcoin_investment_fund/

The best part being;
The FCBF Fund is conditionally registered as an Early Stage Venture Capital Limited Partnership (ESVCLP) under the Australian Venture Capital Act 2002, which will provide investors in the FCBF fully tax free returns, on income and capital account.
 
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Oh, yeah, and not to muddy the waters THE_EGG, but BTC Arbs has been acting exceptionally questionable lately. I'm withdrawing my recommendation to use them.

And bitcoin has never really been anonymous unless using a mixer of some kind, sorta the same as dollars TBH.
 
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Oh, yeah, and not to muddy the waters THE_EGG, but BTC Arbs has been acting exceptionally questionable lately. I'm withdrawing my recommendation to use them.

And bitcoin has never really been anonymous unless using a mixer of some kind, sorta the same as dollars TBH.
The waters have been muddied! :O
On a serious note though, wouldn't the behaviour of investment funds vary ? Or are they all run by one central fund?
 
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I remember when that guy pirate was running something similar where he was providing some really obscene amount of interest if you left money with him. Bitcoin has already some really high returns but I put that to its volatility and lack central bank. A friend of mine put some money in for a month and pulled out. He made money. It was not two months later though that pirate stopped paying people out and ran away with all the money.

RTB might be able to put more details in there, but that is about the best my memory provides.

I support bitcoin but these arbitrage people could so easily be scammy.
 
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Their most recent issues are really really frickin' slow withdrawals to the point some people have been waiting weeks without access to their money, they claim it's because they are "merging" with another company and they need to audit their books.

I call shenanigans.
 
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Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing. ;)
 

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Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing. ;)
Most technical related etailers are now!
 
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Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing. ;)
yup..another billion dollars company accepting bitcoins, good news for the bitcoin community, i'm sure company this size have enough resource to calculate and help them when they decide to accept it, but like Overstock the Newegg still only big in the US, most of the world only know them by name.
 

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yup..another billion dollars company accepting bitcoins, good news for the bitcoin community, i'm sure company this size have enough resource to calculate and help them when they decide to accept it, but like Overstock the Newegg still only big in the US, most of the world only know them by name.
It is simple. Charge twice the dollar amount in bitcoins. Take the bitcoins and resell them immediately for market price.
 
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It is simple. Charge twice the dollar amount in bitcoins. Take the bitcoins and resell them immediately for market price.
Generally doesn't happen. Besides the drama it would cause of bitcoin users boycotting, almost all retailers don't ACTUALLY deal in bitcoins, but use a plugin from coinbase that converts them instantly and pays them at current market rate (not double) in USD. There are equivalents for other currencies too... though I don't know the names. Regardless, they don't even touch the bitcoins in most cases. I don't think a single retailer that is major is doing otherwise, nor should they.
 
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The IRS rules make it hard to do otherwise for businesses.
 
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I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit. :laugh:
 
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I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit. :laugh:
The inventor was never on this forum.
 

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I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit. :laugh:
The hype is I can finally pay for my purchases with a total fee that amounts to usually less than a dime.

It's pretty nice in that regard... especially considering you usually pay for CC swipe fees in item costs, whether you realize it or not.

Oh, and of course there are people like me who were fairly early investors who just want to see it succeed so we can be even more filthy rich. But that's not the majority, lol.
 
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The hype is I can finally pay for my purchases with a total fee that amounts to usually less than a dime.

It's pretty nice in that regard... especially considering you usually pay for CC swipe fees in item costs, whether you realize it or not.

Oh, and of course there are people like me who were fairly early investors who just want to see it succeed so we can be even more filthy rich. But that's not the majority, lol.
Agreed AND it makes for far cheaper purchases internationally due to being one currency so there is no exchange fee on top of the CC fee when buying things in a foreign currency. On my last holiday I counted that I lost about ~$78AUD in exchange fees looking at my CC statement. I'd much prefer to have that $78 than having to have paid it for some stupid fees. And that doesn't include exchange transaction fees for accommodation purchases either as I stayed with a friend.
 
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Generally doesn't happen. Besides the drama it would cause of bitcoin users boycotting, almost all retailers don't ACTUALLY deal in bitcoins, but use a plugin from coinbase that converts them instantly and pays them at current market rate (not double) in USD. There are equivalents for other currencies too... though I don't know the names. Regardless, they don't even touch the bitcoins in most cases. I don't think a single retailer that is major is doing otherwise, nor should they.
There is at least one company keeping all the BTC from sales but I can't find that link (sorry its been a while). But I can link overstock.com's statement about them keeping 10% of all the BTC that comes in.
https://coinreport.net/overstock-holds-earned-bitcoins/