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Black Holes

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FYI, if you're going to call Hawking a fraud, you must also question the observations and work of others such as Edwin Hubble, Einstein, Sagan and many others.

Go research the work of the aforementioned Edwin Hubble and Carl Sagan. You'll discover the real world instead of that near-flat-earther nonsense you keep spouting.
One of mankinds failings is the refusal to accept differing opinions and belittling those people, just as scientists have for centuries, until proven wrong.
Please approach all things with an open mind and remember it is your choice as to what you believe. :lovetpu:
 
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One of mankinds failings is the refusal to accept differing opinions and belittling those people, just as scientists have for centuries, until proven wrong.
Please approach all things with an open mind and remember it is your choice as to what you believe. :lovetpu:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But nobody is entitled to be stupid.

Some guy on a forum has significantly less credibility than one of the most respected theoretical physicists that ever lived.
 
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One of mankinds failings is the refusal to accept differing opinions and belittling those people, just as scientists have for centuries, until proven wrong.
Evidence is an important thing. It's how we've made progress and advanced to where we are currently. Feelings and nonsense are why we were stuck in the middle-ages for so long..
 
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Some guy on a forum has significantly less credibility than one of the most respected theoretical physicists that ever lived.
So you are saying because you don't know him, he must be stupid?
Personally I have never understood the hype about Hawking, who has been proven wrong in the past, just as Einstein was not always correct.
Having a paper published doesn't mean you are smarter, just crave attention.

Evidence is an important thing. It's how we've made progress and advanced to where we are currently.
I agree with this part, but sometimes feelings or hunches lead to speculation that alters theories. Sometimes it just needs an inquiring mind thinking outside the box, someone not indoctrinated in current teachings.
 
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No, but I have the utmost respect Stephen Hawking, who has dedicated his entire life to science and this subject, and seeing him being called a fraud by someone who is very likely objectively less informed, irks me a bit.

Is it trendy to accuse well respected professors in the field as doing it'for attention'. Science hipster? Lol

I agree with this part, but sometimes feelings or hunches lead to speculation that alters theories. Sometimes it just needs an inquiring mind thinking outside the box, someone not indoctrinated in current teachings.
Do you honestly think Hawking has never 'thought outside the box'? One guy on a forum's rambling about how black holes don't exist means nothing. What if I told you the earth is flat and there is evidence to suggest that moon is only 4km away? Will you respect my alternative thinking too?
 
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Sounds like someone has a fundamental misunderstanding of what science is. It's not science unless it can be proven wrong. That is a primary defining characteristic of science. If it can't be proven wrong it's religion. Which is based on beliefs. As such, beliefs have nothing to do with science, or facts for that matter. Science is not about being right, or believing you're right. It's about building a strong case to show things are very likely a certain way. It should never say for sure they are that way. That's religious belief's job.

Beliefs allow the mind to stop working.

I'd rather have questions I can't answer. Than answers I can't question.

The more you claim to know, the less you really do.

I myself...KNOW NOTHING!!!
 
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Ok, here is my theory. It incorporates black holes within the line of thinking.


Think of a universe as a sphere, that comes from a point (big bang).

Now think of several sphere universes, all overlapping.

Now think that our own 'observable universe', here on earth, occurs within several overlapping spheres, such that we are somewhat equally distanced to the center of each universe sphere's start point. But we are absolutely nowhere near the middle of any of them. Maybe we can't see even into the non overlapping parts.

Now think that each sphere is collapsing in on itself, caused by the inverse singularity that super massive black holes are, that are millions of times bigger that what we have ever observed. These occurring at the center of all universe spheres, of the multiverse, of overlapping sphere universes.


To us, we see our 'universe' accelerating away from us. Current thinking says to explain it as dark energy...

Because we think there is only one universe, which spawned from one point...


My theory about super-super-super massive black holes, and overlapping universes, explains why dark energy might not exist. Everything is accelerating in towards the center of each of these universe spheres.

But, it also breaks all maths in regards to how the 'universe' works. i.e. several universes overlapping, all accelerating into their own points, negates 'dark energy' theory.


Food for thought :)

Anyway, I'm not a renowned scientist, and I'm not going to try to prove this theory. It is my own, and I believe it is more likely than dark energy theory. Flame away..... (I posted this in another space thread ages ago, and the post was deleted. Apparently, it wasn't on topic.)
 

FCG

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One of mankinds failings is the refusal to accept differing opinions and belittling those people, just as scientists have for centuries, until proven wrong.
Please approach all things with an open mind and remember it is your choice as to what you believe. :lovetpu:
Hear, hear.

The science wasn't settled for the past 5000 years... why is it suddenly settled now?

I am the Uncommitted Investigator.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But nobody is entitled to be stupid.

Some guy on a forum has significantly less credibility than one of the most respected theoretical physicists that ever lived.
Appealing to another's credibility for that sake alone is a grave logical misdeed.
Do not argue with names, argue with reasoned thought and response.

Newton was a pretty big hot-shot before Einstein came along (also wrong about curved space-time... how can you curve nothing?)

If Carl Sagan told you to drink the red Kool-aid, would you? It seems I may know your response already.

Let's get back to the topic at hand, shall we?

No, but I have the utmost respect Stephen Hawking, who has dedicated his entire life to science and this subject, and seeing him being called a fraud by someone who is very likely objectively less informed, irks me a bit.

Is it trendy to accuse well respected professors in the field as doing it'for attention'. Science hipster? Lol


Do you honestly think Hawking has never 'thought outside the box'? One guy on a forum's rambling about how black holes don't exist means nothing. What if I told you the earth is flat and there is evidence to suggest that moon is only 4km away? Will you respect my alternative thinking too?
Suggest what ever you like.
I would recommend you back it up with reasoned, empirical evidence for such.

Kepler was one man. Copernicus was one man. Copernicus "rambled" so much he was thrown in prison by the Holy Roman Catholic Church and nearly put to death! Look where we are now... lol.

Also, Hawking had ALS... he died in 1984-1985 RIP
(Note: BEFORE the release of A Brief History of Time in 1988)
 
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Also, Hawking had ALS... he died in 1984-1985 RIP
(Note: BEFORE the release of A Brief History of Time in 1988)
Jusu Christi you need to enema your Brain (Swirlys help here )
Stephen William Hawking (1942 - 2018) was the former Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge and author of A Brief History of Time ...
"Re the Swirly" a pic for you
 
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FCG

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Jusu Christi you need to enema your Brain (Swirlys help here )


"Re the Swirly" a pic for you
That's not a picture of the real Hawking. ^^^^

This is the real Hawking and again a few years later. Notice he's turning gray. And those teeth....whew!

Hawking.png
Hawking2.png


Here he is fully gray. Notice his teeth looks as though they have been nearly chipped/ground away.

Hawking3.png
 
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YES it is he also Cameo'ed himself on the TV Show "The Big Bang Theory
.
 
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FCG

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YES it is he also Cameo'ed himself on the TV Show "The Big Bang Theory
.
Again, not Hawking in your picture. Hawking passed in 1984-1985 from complication due to pneumonia and very advanced ALS.
Take a look at the pictures of Hawking that I have posted from the 70s and 80s. Compare and contrast with those of "Hawking" above. The teeth are a dead giveaway.

Big Bang. Lol
 
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Stephen Hawking laid to rest between graves of Sir Isaac Newton and ...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk › News



15 Jun 2018 - On Friday afternoon, thousands gathered to see the ashes of Prof Hawking, who died in March at the age of 76, buried between those of Sir Isaac Newton and Sir Charles Darwin in an entirely earthly thanksgiving service at Westminster Abbey. ... Alongside the scientist’s family ...
Again, fake Hawking.
Real Hawking died in 1984-1985.
You're not getting the point.
All of this about "Hawking" post-1985 is BS.

76-years-old with ALS.... OK, pull my other leg
Born in 1942
Diagnosed in 1963
Lives to 2018 (total of 55 years to ripe old age of 76)

From The ALS Association (let me due a screen grab in case this gets fiddled with all of the sudden):

ALS.png


https://www.google.com/search?q=ALS+average+survival+time

Oops... anything past say 25 years would be a statistical fluke already and worthy of further investigation.
This guy pulled off 55 years... more than twice the far end of the curve... wow!

What's the need to so vehemently defend the image that is Hawking, anyway?
Would the whole "black hole" theory fall apart if you were to discover that in reality there is another masquerading as the brilliant man that WAS Hawkings? I should hope not as that's not how we do science (or at least, shouldn't).

Ready to jump back on subject now?
 
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To us, we see our 'universe' accelerating away from us. Current thinking says to explain it as dark energy...
This is nothing more than the natural progression of the universe.

Space is expanding scalarly outward in all directions from all points. Same for time (from all planes) although the geometry is inverted (inside-out, backwards, and upside-down). Simply put, s/t = 1. The ratio of space to time is the "speed of light" or what we call c.
C (little "c" or the speed of light) is not a limit; it's a constant.

Space is REAL; Time is IMAGINARY (complex, complex complex makes quaternion, or even complex complex complex in the case of octonions.)
Space and time are reciprocal and any differences are merely due to the inherent bias created by your particular frame of reference.

Dark Energy is nothing more than a kludge explanation for the progression and being in the opposite scalar direction than gravity (inwards, towards unity), would be what we would label as "anti-gravity" motion (outward, away from unity).

We call the outward expansion IN ALL DIRECTIONS AWAY FROM US the HUBBLE EXPANSION (you guys still like Hubble, right?) And everything is approaching the SPEED OF LIGHT every way we look and even formed what I think was the basis for the documentary The Principle (right observation, wrong conclusion). This is how we observe scalar motion from the POV of our fixed 3D spacial coordinate reference system.
There was not an initial (Big?) Bang... this is the continuous natural MOTION of the universe. And it will never stop.

The Secret of Light is that light (or any motion that does not have a net effect outside the unit boundary) remains in the same absolute location in the natural reference frame (but not in YOUR reference frame where you consider YOURSELF and everything about you still, and insofar as light remains in the same absolute location in the natural reference frame and free from interaction with matter, this is true). YOU (and everything around you) are gravitating ("imaginary": rotationally outward in time, real: linearly inward in space).

The outward spacial scalar expansion is arrested and reversed around "mass" creating what we call a gravitational field. This field has a limit (that being a function of the net outward rotational motion in time) and creates what could be described as a bubble of 3D space. Outside this bubble, i.e. outside the gravitational limit (let that sink in, there is a limit), would be a region of net outward scalar progression (vs. net inward scalar gravitation). This means (being inside a gravitational limit now) you are scalarly condensing inward at the "speed of light" as to allow for the creation of said fixed reference frame.

You imagine that photons are buzzing by at the "speed of light;" not quite, YOU just gravitated into the photon at the "speed of light." This goes for any "light-speed" EM radiation that does not occupy all 3 dimensions of SCALAR space/counterspace (i.e. at least one free dimension to allow for the progression).

For example: uncharged electrons (whaaaa? conventional science says everything is charged) also move at "the speed of light", i.e. what we call electric current (s/t), but not charged electrons, what is often referred to as "static electricity" or electrostatics. The uncharged electron is the "hole" (a rotating unit of space and is really a cosmic quaternion structure, note also we model current flow in the opposite direction of electron/"hole" flow), the charged electron having 3 scalar dimensions of motion (base 2D magnetic bi-rotation in time... that's the electron + 1D electrical rotation in space... that's the "charge") does gravitate and so has a position in our fixed 3D spacial coordinate system... we see it as a point particle. Rotation in space -> structure in space; wave in time. Rotation in time -> structure in time; wave in space.

As an analogy to the scenario discussed wherein the inward and outward scalar motions reached equilibrium: you step on a treadmill and proceed north. The treadmill is energized and promptly proceeds south (opposite your direction of walking). No matter how fast you move, so long as the treadmill is set even, you're going nowhere. This is 1-dimensional (scalar) motion in equilibrium. 1D because I only need a single variable to describe the motion... I'm going x speed, direction non-specified because the treadmill is going x speed in not "that direction."

This is also what we recognize as an "orbit," that being a balance between the inward scalar motion of gravity and the ever-present outward scalar progression of the universe. This is not possible with the conventional explanation: gravity is a positive-feedback system, i.e. if the distance between the two masses increases, the gravitational "attraction" goes down... for stability, an increase in distance would need to be counteracted by an increase in inward pull to restore the mass to the original orbital position. Conversely, bringing the two masses closer together results in an increased pull. There can be no stability.

We see this all the time in the "orbits" (not true orbits) of satellites about the Earth... eventually they all come down... but not the moon! Not the planets! Those orbits aren't decaying. Those orbits do move over clock time as the system ages but they are certainly what we would consider stable. Man cannot achieve a stable orbit, only nature can do this. This is worth exploring.

Scalar: Push/Pull... no direction... a push plus an equal pull... gravity, being a function of distance (but not in the manner currently taken as accepted) in balance with the progression (not a function of any location) would find an equilibrium position and LOCK INTO POSITION of zero net speed... Houston, we have stability!

The very same mechanism presented above that locks planets/moons into orbits is the mechanism that also provides for all the various types of molecular bonding. Only the scale changes and the "direction" of gravitation/progression reverses as we cross a unit boundary. As above, so below...

Ionic bond: net speed balanced as close to zero (unity motion) as possible (scalar relationship... we call these "positive" and "negative" charge...)

Because the phase of each wave in space or time are locked to the progression, all space waves are in phase and all time waves are in phase, but out of phase with each other 180 degrees, as measured from the natural reference frame.

When two like-charged particles are placed nearby, it is said they repel one another. This can be shown to be the simple result of the motion due the natural progression. Keep in mind we have never measured an EM field outside of a gravitational field and so inside a gravitational field we already have one net unit of motion inward (-1).

When two like waves of LIKE phase (charge) interact this causes constructive interference:
1 + 1 = 2 - 1 (gravitational motion inward) = +1 (outward away from all points on the Real number line)... REPULSION

When two like waves of UNLIKE (opposite) phase (charge) interact, this causes destructive interference:
1 - 1 = 0 - 1 (gravitational motion inward) = -1 (inward towards all points on the Real number line)... ATTRACTION

Thus it can be seen that the concept of "positive" and "negative" charge and the illusion of "attraction" and "repulsion" are really just primary motion of the universe and its animus motion (gravity).

Covalent bond: orientation in space/time (geometry-driven... think lattice/shell in 3D space or 3D time where pieces fit together like a puzzle)

Van Der Waals forces: gravitation

"Dark energy" will *never* be found (i.e. measured) as there is NOTHING to measure as a delta from the natural reference frame.
The progression IS the clock and is the default speed of the universe ("c" or light speed) in all unused dimensions from which all other speeds are measured as displacements, either in space or time. Any unused dimension will progress at the natural speed and so that motion (sub-atomic particle) will be carried at the "speed of light." The natural datum for any measurement is one (1), not zero.

EDIT: Sure cleared out fast in here. Anyone wanna talk science?

Octonians_rev-july-22-2018-743x1720.jpg

Evidence is an important thing. It's how we've made progress and advanced to where we are currently. Feelings and nonsense are why we were stuck in the middle-ages for so long..
No one is asking you to throw out empirical result... none of it.
You are being asked to consider a mode of reality outside of what you have been taught regarding the materialistic (or rather; not) nature of this universe.
I'm not arguing feelings. I am not appealing to your base emotion. I'm not sure where you get this impression from but I am not projecting such.
 
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What if I told you the earth is flat and there is evidence to suggest that moon is only 4km away? Will you respect my alternative thinking too?
You, are just being facetious and ridiculous.
 
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Again, fake Hawking.
Real Hawking died in 1984-1985.
You're not getting the point.
All of this about "Hawking" post-1985 is BS.

76-years-old with ALS.... OK, pull my other leg
Born in 1942
Diagnosed in 1963
Lives to 2018 (total of 55 years to ripe old age of 76)

From The ALS Association (let me due a screen grab in case this gets fiddled with all of the sudden):

View attachment 118940

https://www.google.com/search?q=ALS+average+survival+time

Oops... anything past say 25 years would be a statistical fluke already and worthy of further investigation.
This guy pulled off 55 years... more than twice the far end of the curve... wow!

What's the need to so vehemently defend the image that is Hawking, anyway?
Would the whole "black hole" theory fall apart if you were to discover that in reality there is another masquerading as the brilliant man that WAS Hawkings? I should hope not as that's not how we do science (or at least, shouldn't).

Ready to jump back on subject now?
Are you being serious?

I'm done with this thread if you're going to be so utterly preposterous. Can't have a proper discussion about science with someone like you, sorry.
 
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Don't get overwhelmed by the massive wall of text - I can do that too and overload one's thought process while reading if I want but there is no point to it.

I can't say he's wrong and he's obviously intelligent but I will also say to remember there is more to intelligence than just mathematical formulas or all else that can be had from a book - Some of the smartest people I have ever known coudn't begin to comprehend all this but in other ways were simply genius.

What one man knows another could learn if they really want.

I prefer to keep my explanations K.I.S.S. and that's just how I think - It's also true some of the most profound things are also the simplest too.

Do remember even with all the above including the mathematical stuff, the data it's based on is still incomplete as in we still don't have all the facts yet and the equasion will change as new data is introduced into the formula.
That's why I say it as "I Think", not that it "Is" because "Is" states it as being an absolute fact like so many others have before only to be proven wrong later.

I understand the difference in semantics used and sometimes we say "Is" anyway as a matter of expression - That's just the truth of it.

We can observe and then draw conclusions based on said observation(s) using what we've learned in the past to guide us but in this case, it being the subject of a blackhole we will never REALLY KNOW until we get there to gather even more data to help complete the formula - Which BTW I seriously doubt we ever will.

And don't forget that past data, possibly being wrong itself and used to base future theories on could introduce an error into the formula that (As said about the cosmos) keeps expanding and growing larger with each iteration.
We've all had that happen in math class at some point as we carried on a computation - And got the wrong answer. :D
Done that too many times myself.

I still believe a blackhole isn't that complicated of an object.
I also believe our observations (what we think we know) aren't "Perfect" for the former reasons - Not entirely wrong but not entirely correct either.
We're always learning and that's what science is all about.
 
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From point of view of sci-fi fan this thread rocks and as to who is right or wrong ...i'll wait untill i can pick jar of delicious black holes from the shelf in tesco and read label on back.
ps.( Anti gravity jar, patent pending) :D.
 

FCG

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Are you being serious?

I'm done with this thread if you're going to be so utterly preposterous. Can't have a proper discussion about science with someone like you, sorry.
That Hawkings is or is not who he claims to be is irrelevant to the conversation at hand. That you would voluntarily leave the conversation thread because the idea Hawings is not who he claims to be is childish and hyperbolic. Fine, censure yourself. Good day, sir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_star

There are some interesting alternatives to a black hole that deny the possibility of a singularity (especially Magnetospheric eternally collapsing objects and gravastars) but white dwarfs are too small to have such a powerful gravitational field.
Newly-formed white dwarf stars are small to our perception as they are mainly motion FTL and are only beginning to COOL and EXPAND in space as they HEAT and CONDENSE in time due to temporal gravity (gravity in 3D time, not 3D space). Multiple, intense magnetic fields (2D motion) are created as thermal motion extends into a second dimension of equivalent space.

As the white dwarf cools and expands in space it moves from being a net X-ray emitter (HF EM) to an emitter of EM radiation in the visible light, IR, and RF spectrum (LF EM). This trend continues over a period of clock time.

EM radiation given off depends on which side of the unit speed boundary from which the motion occurs (from the observer's point of view). As the zone of isotopic stability flips (2Z + G -> 2Z - G) for FTL motion, atoms must go through a series of radioactive decay processes before they are to achieve stability in their new environment. X-rays, having a waveduration, not a wavelength like other LF EM, are this means of achieving isotropic stability in this region (speed, not location). Note: gamma ray emission is similar in that gamma is HF EM and so also has a waveduration (wave in time, structure in space). Gamma rays are emitted when ultra high-speed (3-x) matter drops below FTL speeds. Dependent on the magnitude of the supernova, some matter may be accelerated to ultra high-speed and so gamma ray radiation may also be observed as individual atoms (of motion) drop back to the low speed region.

Outward explosion in time has as its reciprocal an INWARD explosion in space (we call this an implosion). As you and I are material observers we observe the equivalent inward in 3D space (we cannot directly observe 3D coordinate time.... bummer) and so the object appears to us as to be a massively dense point in space that appears... "not there" (what we erroneously take to be a “black hole.")

The inner, heavier layers, being confined in space, IMPLODE in space (out in time) with the heavier elements closer to the plane of explosion (the new surface of the supernova'ed star, really the core in time) with the lighter elements more abundant going inward. A reverse density gradient... inside-out from a typical "star." If Sol-like stars are Yang, then the White Dwarf star is all Yin, baby.

FTL motion would be observed as anti-gravity motion. White dwarf stars don’t suck, they blow.
(As they say, there’s no gravity, the Earth sucks! That's a joke.)

EDIT: Attachment (1) from Etidorhpa; Or, the End of Earth: The Strange History of a Mysterious Being and the Account of a Remarkable Journey: Chapter XXVI. Motion From Inherent Energy.—“Lead Me Deeper Into This Expanding Study.” No copyright due to time since publishing. Fascinating...
 

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I have too much BS going on in my life. I don't watch the news because it upsets me too much, and i get "triggered" super quickly. So yeah I'm done. I'm actually pretty clueless when it comes to science and my IQ is like 50 so my contribution won't be much good anyway. I'mn ot even being sarcastic lol... anyway Childish or whatever I have no mind for your wacky conspiracy theories, good day to you too sir;)
 
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