Budget UPS advice

[Valantar]

So I'm looking for a budget UPS for my DIY NAS. It doesn't need to be anything fancy whatsoever - it'll have a single PC connected to it, with no high power hardware. All it needs to do is allow for a smooth shutdown of the NAS in case of a power outage. The NAS is getting updated soon, but currently runs an AMD A8-7600, 16GB of DDR3, a SATA SSD, 3 3.5" 5400RPM HDDs, and nothing else worthy of note. Peak drive spin-up power draws might hit 100W at the wall, but I doubt it ever goes above that, and typical power draws are likely closer to 50W. The upgrade will likely see it inherit my Ryzen 5 1600X (set to 65W mode if not lower), 32GB of ECC DDR4, some sort of HBA card, a 2.5GbE NIC, and probably a couple more 3.5" HDDs down the line. So to be generous, let's say it might move to 200W peak power draws and ... 70-100W typical? Definitely no more than that. There'll also likely be a small 2.5GbE switch run off the outlets on the UPS.

Is there any reason why something like this would be insufficient? 360W output is more than enough, it has two outlets, Ethernet protection, 7Ah capacity should be enough for ~15m at 100W according to various online calculators. Is there anything I'm missing? I'm not a huge fan of the USB connection being on the front, but it's going to be tucked away in a closet anyhow, so ...

 

[kayjay010101]

Have the same Bluewalker-line of UPS' except mine are of the rackmount/2200VA variant, very happy with them. Currently got two in my server rack, very happy with them. Over my (relatively quiet) servers they're inaudible even on battery, but if you sat next to one it does have a slight hum when on battery. But if it's in a closet I'd imagine it wouldn't be audible - not to mention mine are a lot more powerful than the one you're looking at, so I imagine they're a lot more noisy to boot. So noise shouldn't be a problem.

That seems like it would be sufficient for your use-case, yeah. Just make sure it never exceeds 360W, ideally you'd stay at a lot lower power draw so you get enough time for a graceful shutdown of
~3-4 minutes.

What's your NAS running? It might support UPS' natively and be able to do a graceful shutdown on it's own over USB. I know unRAID and Free/TrueNAS both have this functionality through apcupsd and NUT respectively. (although I know unRAID has a NUT plugin as well). If it's just running Windows then Bluewalker have some software (WinPower) that works OK.

 

[cst1992]

For PCs such as yours, I'd just use a plain $50 APC 600VA UPS.

 

[kayjay010101]

For PCs such as yours, I'd just use a plain $50 APC 600VA UPS.

If you check out proshop.se (the webstore OP linked) the APC's available are only 500VA or 700VA, both of which are more expensive than the bluewalker. So OP would have to spend almost twice as much on an APC 700VA model or go down to a 500VA rating for 100 SEK more (more than 10%)

APC doesn't have as large a foothold in the European market (especially in the budget range) as they do over in the states and I wouldn't recommend bothering with APC in the low end here. They're simply overpriced compared to the other offerings (yes, I know they're reliable but so are Powerwalker UPS')

 

[Valantar]

For PCs such as yours, I'd just use a plain $50 APC 600VA UPS.

No such thing available here in Sweden it seems. At least not that I can find. Also, $50 =~420 SEK + 25% VAT = essentially the same price as the one I linked. I can't find any UPSes cheaper than that that don't seem immediately dodgy.

 

[cst1992]

APC doesn't have as large a foothold in the European market (especially in the budget range) as they do over in the states and I wouldn't recommend bothering with APC in the low end here. They're simply overpriced compared to the other offerings (yes, I know they're reliable but so are Powerwalker UPS')

That's fair.

Where I live, APCs are cheap with good market penetration.

 

[Valantar]

Have the same Bluewalker-line of UPS' except mine are of the rackmount/2200VA variant, very happy with them. Currently got two in my server rack, very happy with them. Over my (relatively quiet) servers they're inaudible even on battery, but if you sat next to one it does have a slight hum when on battery. But if it's in a closet I'd imagine it wouldn't be audible - not to mention mine are a lot more powerful than the one you're looking at, so I imagine they're a lot more noisy to boot. So noise shouldn't be a problem.

That seems like it would be sufficient for your use-case, yeah. Just make sure it never exceeds 360W, ideally you'd stay at a lot lower power draw so you get enough time for a graceful shutdown of
~3-4 minutes.

What's your NAS running? It might support UPS' natively and be able to do a graceful shutdown on it's own over USB. I know unRAID and Free/TrueNAS both have this functionality through apcupsd and NUT respectively. (although I know unRAID has a NUT plugin as well). If it's just running Windows then Bluewalker have some software (WinPower) that works OK.

Thanks for the feedback I'd never heard of the brand before, so it's good to hear they are reliable. The NAS is currently running Windows, though I'm planning a move to TrueNAS alongside the upcoming upgrade.

 

[cst1992]

No such thing available here in Sweden it seems. At least not that I can find. Also, $50 =~420 SEK + 25% VAT = essentially the same price as the one I linked. I can't find any UPSes cheaper than that that don't seem immediately dodgy.

Sweden is expensive.

 

[Valantar]

Sweden is expensive.

I moved here from Norway less than a year ago, so for me it seems quite cheap Tech prices are roughly the same though. Everything else? A lot cheaper.

 

[kayjay010101]

I moved here from Norway less than a year ago, so for me it seems quite cheap Tech prices are roughly the same though. Everything else? A lot cheaper.

As a Norwegian, indeed. There's a reason why going to the swedish border to buy tobacco and candy is a norwegian tradition.

 

[cst1992]

I found Denmark expensive too.

 

[Valantar]

I found Denmark expensive too.

Denmark is more expensive than Sweden, less than Norway (though exchange rate fluctuations have made Denmark nearly as expensive as Norway recently, at least for us Norwegians). None of them are particularly low cost of living countries, but then average incomes tend to make up for that.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Which brands are available ?
Cyber Power maybe ?

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
Which brands are available ?
Cyber Power maybe ?

This gives you a decent overview.

Taking a second look, might this be a better option than the one I first linked? Higher output rating doesn't matter much, but it's 9Ah vs. 7 for the same price, and the USB connector is on the rear. Visually it looks like an older/more basic version, but I don't understand UPS features enough to really tell. There's also a 600VA/7Ah version of the same that's even cheaper.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Thanks hope I didn't miss other links to items the hyperlink font is hard for me to see

But I've never read about power walker only apc looks familiar since I have one
But yes the one PW you linked to is as basic as it gets the other 360w isn't going to last long so higher the wattage the longer the battery will power items.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The problem with budget UPSs is they tend to have budget quality - and not just fewer features or less VA/wattage capability. That is, the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature is likely to be less capable at regulating the incoming voltage; "cleaning" the waveforms, attenuating or boosting the voltage as necessary, and shaping it into a more perfect sinewave. This is important since clearly (at least in my opinion) it is the AVR feature of a good UPS that is, by far, the most important function of any good UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is just the icing on the cake - a minor, bonus feature.

But to that, budget UPSs also tend to have slower cutover/transfer times. This is critical too. Since the ATX Form Factor standard only requires ATX power supplies maintain ("hold up") output voltages for a mere 17ms when the input voltage drops below 90VAC/180VAC. Therefore, it is critical the UPS sense the drop, cutover to batteries, and stabilize output well before that 17ms time period elapses.

That's the theory. But theory and real-world don't always jive and that is especially true with power supplies. If you look at the professional reviews of even some of the highest rated PSUs, many fail to maintain output even that long - with many ceasing output at 12ms or even less. Note that even 17ms is way way faster than the human eye/brain can detect! The threshold for human awareness is ~30ms. That is the average human might detect a slight "flicker" in the lights if the voltage falls below 90/180VAC for 30ms or more. But if 20ms, an unprotected PSU will cease output and the computer will crash (potentially corrupting the drives and data) without us even being aware a power anomaly even occurred.

So I always look for "good" UPS and those that have cut-over/transfer times of 8ms or less. 4ms if possible within my price range.

All it needs to do is allow for a smooth shutdown of the NAS in case of a power outage.

And what happens if you are away when that power outage occurs? Most budget UPS don't support "automatic shutdowns" because they don't communicate with the connected computer. They simply run on battery until the batteries discharge, then they terminate output.

The better UPSs support communications between the UPS and the connected computer - typically via a USB cable and UPS software. For example, PowerChute is the software APC uses (free for home users).

When the UPS can communicate with the computer, the UPS software will monitor the remaining battery runtime and when it drops below a preset threshold (typically based on estimated runtime left), the monitoring software initiates a "graceful" shut down of the computer, saving all open files, closing all open programs, shutting down the OS, then properly turning off the computer BEFORE the batteries run out. This is critical, especially with servers, IMO. Without such monitoring, in the event of an extended power outage, when the batteries run down, power to the connected devices is simply terminated - that is, the computer comes crashing down, potentially corrupting your drives.

The better UPSs also tend to have LCD status display panels. For me, this is a great extra feature because you can then quickly see the incoming line voltage, current load in percent and wattage, remaining runtime, battery charge percentage and perhaps more. Mine shows event error codes too. Without a status display, you really don't know what is going on. If the UPS supports USB communications you may be able to see all this via the monitoring software - but then of course, the computer has to be up and running - and awake. And if no USB communications is supported, you are in the dark - at least figuratively. And speaking of seeing what you are doing - it is nice to have the monitor protected by the UPS too.

Like many products, the better features come on the bigger models. But IMO, that's okay too. The higher the VA/Wattage rating, the longer the battery run time - a good thing. Plus, of course, bigger the VA, the more devices/greater load it will support. My APC 1500VA UPS supports this computer, all my network gear, and two 24 inch monitors and will provide at least 1 hour of backup power if I keep using the computer. If I shut down 1 monitor, I get about 75 minutes. If I quickly shut down both monitors and the computer, I get over 3 hours of run time - keeping my wifi network alive so my other wireless and portable devices can still connect to the Internet.

I am going to assume, with this being a NAS, this computer stores important data - perhaps backups of your other computers. To me, that means the protection of that NAS is important. Don't get a "budget" UPS.

 

[Valantar]

The problem with budget UPSs is they tend to have budget quality - and not just fewer features or less VA/wattage capability. That is, the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature is likely to be less capable at regulating the incoming voltage; "cleaning" the waveforms, attenuating or boosting the voltage as necessary, and shaping it into a more perfect sinewave. This is important since clearly (at least in my opinion) it is the AVR feature of a good UPS that is, by far, the most important function of any good UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is just the icing on the cake - a minor, bonus feature.

But to that, budget UPSs also tend to have slower cutover/transfer times. This is critical too. Since the ATX Form Factor standard only requires ATX power supplies maintain ("hold up") output voltages for a mere 17ms when the input voltage drops below 90VAC/180VAC. Therefore, it is critical the UPS sense the drop, cutover to batteries, and stabilize output well before that 17ms time period elapses.

That's the theory. But theory and real-world don't always jive and that is especially true with power supplies. If you look at the professional reviews of even some of the highest rated PSUs, many fail to maintain output even that long - with many ceasing output at 12ms or even less. Note that even 17ms is way way faster than the human eye/brain can detect! The threshold for human awareness is ~30ms. That is the average human might detect a slight "flicker" in the lights if the voltage falls below 90/180VAC for 30ms or more. But if 20ms, an unprotected PSU will cease output and the computer will crash (potentially corrupting the drives and data) without us even being aware a power anomaly even occurred.

So I always look for "good" UPS and those that have cut-over/transfer times of 8ms or less. 4ms if possible within my price range.


And what happens if you are away when that power outage occurs? Most budget UPS don't support "automatic shutdowns" because they don't communicate with the connected computer. They simply run on battery until the batteries discharge, then they terminate output.

The better UPSs support communications between the UPS and the connected computer - typically via a USB cable and UPS software. For example, PowerChute is the software APC uses (free for home users).

When the UPS can communicate with the computer, the UPS software will monitor the remaining battery runtime and when it drops below a preset threshold (typically based on estimated runtime left), the monitoring software initiates a "graceful" shut down of the computer, saving all open files, closing all open programs, shutting down the OS, then properly turning off the computer BEFORE the batteries run out. This is critical, especially with servers, IMO. Without such monitoring, in the event of an extended power outage, when the batteries run down, power to the connected devices is simply terminated - that is, the computer comes crashing down, potentially corrupting your drives.

The better UPSs also tend to have LCD status display panels. For me, this is a great extra feature because you can then quickly see the incoming line voltage, current load in percent and wattage, remaining runtime, battery charge percentage and perhaps more. Mine shows event error codes too. Without a status display, you really don't know what is going on. If the UPS supports USB communications you may be able to see all this via the monitoring software - but then of course, the computer has to be up and running - and awake. And if no USB communications is supported, you are in the dark - at least figuratively. And speaking of seeing what you are doing - it is nice to have the monitor protected by the UPS too.

Like many products, the better features come on the bigger models. But IMO, that's okay too. The higher the VA/Wattage rating, the longer the battery run time - a good thing. Plus, of course, bigger the VA, the more devices/greater load it will support. My APC 1500VA UPS supports this computer, all my network gear, and two 24 inch monitors and will provide at least 1 hour of backup power if I keep using the computer. If I shut down 1 monitor, I get about 75 minutes. If I quickly shut down both monitors and the computer, I get over 3 hours of run time - keeping my wifi network alive so my other wireless and portable devices can still connect to the Internet.

I am going to assume, with this being a NAS, this computer stores important data - perhaps backups of your other computers. To me, that means the protection of that NAS is important. Don't get a "budget" UPS.

Thanks for the input If you looked at the models I've linked above, all of those have USB support (I wouldn't consider anything without it), and either seem to support USB HID (driverless) mode or have widely available drivers for various OSes. AFAIK with USB HID mode most OSes should recognize it as a connected battery natively, with any additional software just managing the shutdowns etc., like you say. So I'm definitely not considering anything without that. I didn't look at transfer times for the two cheaper units I linked in the latest post, but the one I linked in the OP has a spec of 4ms, which I judged as good precisely due to it being significantly below the ATX spec, and below the worst real-world numbers I've seen in reviews.

As for power conditioning, I'm not very worried about that tbh. Here in Sweden - and in Norway, if I end up moving back there - power quality is generally excellent. Both countries have lots of renewable energy, and AFAIK renewable energy production (at least wind and hydro) tends to produce even and smooth power. Plus the grids are well maintained, with things like brown-outs essentially being unheard of. I don't see that as a relevant need for my use case - or at least much more of a luxury than a necessity. Blackout protection is essentially all I'm after in that regard - I don't know if it's a fluke, but since moving here in August there have been two multi-hour power outages (one during a recent storm, one a few months back), which has got me thinking that at least the NAS ought to be protected.

As for monitors, the NAS runs entirely headless, so no worries there. The only times a monitor will be connected to it is if I need BIOS access or it fails to boot, which isn't likely to be a concern during a blackout

But at least it's good to know that the things I sort of thought of as essentials when I started looking are actually the most important ones.



Oh, btw., here's a question: automatic shutdowns are one thing, but is there a way of getting the PC to boot up again automatically when the power returns? Will the UPS shut off if there's little/no load and the AC power is out? If it stays on setting the BIOS to power on after AC loss won't help at least ...

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
At a point it all depends on power and charge of the battery plus windows hibernation settings if the machine will wake up or start up if it ever goes into hibernation.

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
At a point it all depends on power and charge of the battery plus windows hibernation settings if the machine will wake up or start up if it ever goes into hibernation.

Ah, that's a good point. I have no idea if TrueNAS supports those kinds of features though, but at the very least that should tide me over until the upgrade. It would be really neat if I was able to set my router to ping the PC with a WOL packet on boot, that way I could ensure that the NAS was always running as long as the router was online. It has a heap of features, but sadly I don't think it has that

 

[Bill_Bright]

Oh, btw., here's a question: automatic shutdowns are one thing, but is there a way of getting the PC to boot up again automatically when the power returns? Will the UPS shut off if there's little/no load and the AC power is out? If it stays on setting the BIOS to power on after AC loss won't help at least ...

Yeah, this depends on the motherboard's BIOS and UPS.

The problem is, this can be a pretty complex scenario depending on the cause of the power outage, and more specifically, how power is restored.

When talking about a "mission critical" server, where the integrity of the data is top priority and access to that data is almost as important, you want "unattended" servers to automatically boot up when power is restored. This is typically a BIOS setting on the server motherboard.

The problem is, what if the batteries were run all the way down during the outage, power is restored, the server automatically boots, and 1 minute later, the power goes out again before the batteries had time to recharge enough to support another "graceful" automatic shutdown? Your drives and the data may get hosed.

So ideally, if an unattended server/computer is to be automatically booted AND still be protected by the UPS, the UPS needs to be smart enough to keep output power off after grid power is restored until the batteries have recharged enough to support another graceful automatic shutdown. You likely are not going to get that in a budget UPS.

Oh, don't assume that all destructive power anomalies come from the grid. A faulty appliance in the home (cheap $15 hair drier from China, or failing oven) can send excessive surges and spike onto the circuit, or cause a breaker to trip.

 

[kayjay010101]

Oh, btw., here's a question: automatic shutdowns are one thing, but is there a way of getting the PC to boot up again automatically when the power returns? Will the UPS shut off if there's little/no load and the AC power is out? If it stays on setting the BIOS to power on after AC loss won't help at least ...

This is usually a BIOS setting called "Restore on AC Power Loss", in which you've got three settings (usually): Enabled [turn on when power is back], Off [don't do anything when power is back] and Last State [if the PC was on when power was lost, turn it back on again if power is restored. If the PC was off when power was gone, don't do anything].
Though as Bill points out you might not necessarily want this enabled if power goes off and on then off again before batteries have a chance to recharge.

 

[harm9963]

I have the SX950OU , $89

CyberPower Systems Standby Series UPS (SX550G); 550 VA, 330 W, 120 V; 8 Outlets; EMI/RFI line noise filters; Advanced - Micro Center

Get it now! The CyberPower SX550G Standby uninterruptible power supply (UPS) safeguards home/office computers and other electronics (monitors, scanners, speakers, CD/DVD players, MP3 players and phones) from surges, spikes, sags, brownouts and other power abnormalities.

www.microcenter.com

 

[Valantar]

This is usually a BIOS setting called "Restore on AC Power Loss", in which you've got three settings (usually): Enabled [turn on when power is back], Off [don't do anything when power is back] and Last State [if the PC was on when power was lost, turn it back on again if power is restored. If the PC was off when power was gone, don't do anything].
Though as Bill points out you might not necessarily want this enabled if power goes off and on then off again before batteries have a chance to recharge.

... yes, I said that, didn't I? My question was whether this would work when connected to the UPS - if the UPS battery still has power after the PC shuts down, and the UPS stays on despite there being no real load, there is no AC loss for the BIOS to notice. Hence my question of whether the UPS will shut off the AC supply if there is no load.

I have the SX950OU , $89

CyberPower Systems Standby Series UPS (SX550G); 550 VA, 330 W, 120 V; 8 Outlets; EMI/RFI line noise filters; Advanced - Micro Center

Get it now! The CyberPower SX550G Standby uninterruptible power supply (UPS) safeguards home/office computers and other electronics (monitors, scanners, speakers, CD/DVD players, MP3 players and phones) from surges, spikes, sags, brownouts and other power abnormalities.

www.microcenter.com

I can't find an equivalent model to that one that's available here in Sweden, and besides, I have no need for more than a couple of outlets. But thanks for the input, I know CyberPower is a relatively reputable brand, and while they seem to have more market penetration than APC here, they also seem to be on the expensive side compared to the alternatives.

 

[kayjay010101]

... yes, I said that, didn't I? My question was whether this would work when connected to the UPS - if the UPS battery still has power after the PC shuts down, and the UPS stays on despite there being no real load, there is no AC loss for the BIOS to notice. Hence my question of whether the UPS will shut off the AC supply if there is no load.

I see now. My reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I haven't had experience in that specific scenario so I'll leave this for Bill/somebody else to answer.

 

[remixedcat]

sty away from the lower end apcs the ones with the plugs facing up. 425VA one for my media pc/tv/soundbar has been replaced twice. fails its self test even after complete reset. no powerchute mgmt either since no usb data connection. stay away from that whole design. thier mid to upper range ones are much better