Bulldozer, AM3 or new socket?

[Fourstaff]

Just wondering what you guys think, because I have received conflicting information. I have heard that Bulldozer is a new architecture, therefore new platform. I have also heard that it is going to be compatible with AM3, because AM3 is still quite new. Links to sources will be welcome

 

[JrRacinFan]

I myself heard it's also going to be a completely new socket.

 

[lyndonguitar]

I think you got the conflicting infos from my thread right? anyway, I think its a new socket because, Intel changed its sockets so AMD also will probably do it.

 

[cadaveca]

Both?

Seriously though, here's the info you are looking for:

In 2011 we get Bulldozer and it comes in the form of the Zambezi CPU (AMD’s codenames are such fun). You’ll see four and eight core versions of Zambezi. Both will support DDR3 and both will work in Socket-AM3. Obviously guaranteeing motherboard support this early in the game is difficult, but AMD is usually good about maintaining socket compatibility. You may be able to slip a Zambezi into your current day Socket-AM3 motherboards.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2871/2

My own info says support for up to 1866mhz mem, too.

 

[wahdangun]

but usually desktop part was based from opteron and current opteron use new socket(because use quad chanel ram).

so if what u saying is true then Bulldozer will be not released in server or doesn't have opteron counterpart

 

[cadaveca]

Next Opteron Socket will be Mangy-Cours...quad channel mem. That will form the new socket, AFAIK, while AM3 still has a gen of cpus left to go. Kinda like AM2+ and AM3 now...

So, 8c8t Zamezi might go into Opteron, in new socket, but AMD very purposefully re-uses sockets, and has two in use at any given time, so sockets don't have short upgrade life.

 

[wahdangun]

so that's mean amd will still use dual Chanel MC in bulldozer ?

Btw magny Mangy-Cours have been released

 

[_JP_]

I can only see it with a new socket, because even if it were with the same socket but a new revision (say AM3+ or AM4), the CPUs would have to have a big architectural redesign in order to support all of the new technology in it.
AMD is planning to integrate a GPU in the chip plus a PCI-e controller and new RAM controller, thus following Intel's innovations. But Intel saw that the current sockets wouldn't suffice so new ones had to be made. Also the architectural design of the chips had to be different.

 

[cadaveca]

so that's mean amd will still use dual Chanel MC in bulldozer ?

Btw magny Mangy-Cours have been released

I cannot answer that, but ganged/unganged makes me think it's more than possible to get quad channel on AM3.

And as Mangy-Cours is already out, I do not understand confusion about this. I mean, Mangy-Cours was out in April...

Well ,actually, I do understand, but it seems most likely that maybe Zambezi will be early as well...unless Zambezi needs some sort of major change to improve performance. But at this point I am very confident, as many people were not thinking Thuban would debut so early as well, so only AMD knows exactly what is coming when...but I do not expect any socket changes in the desktop space until next year, with Mangy-Cours in desktop form. AM3 will straddle this socket, and then begin to be phased out completely in 2012.


I don't think Thuban actually has a long life-span. But it's not like I got insider info or anything lke that...the only difference between me and msot other info sources is that I read all tech propaganda, and also listen to/attend investor meetings and the like. Investors get better info than media...

 

[Fourstaff]

I think you got the conflicting infos from my thread right? anyway, I think its a new socket because, Intel changed its sockets so AMD also will probably do it.

Yes, it from your thread. Personally, I think its going to be a new socket, because sticking with AM3 will somewhat hold back the Bulldozer. However, if rumors such as "bulldozer targets mainstream" are true, then I think it might well be in AM3.

Edit: @cadaveca I have read the Anandtech article, but I am still not convinced.

 

[wahdangun]

I cannot answer that, but ganged/unganged makes me think it's more than possible to get quad channel on AM3.

And as Mangy-Cours is already out, I do not understand confusion about this. I mean, Mangy-Cours was out in April...

Well ,actually, I do understand, but it seems most likely that maybe Zambezi will be early as well...unless Zambezi needs some sort of major change to improve performance. But at this point I am very confident, as many people were not thinking Thuban would debut so early as well, so only AMD knows exactly what is coming when...but I do not expect any socket changes in the desktop space until next year, with Mangy-Cours in desktop form. AM3 will straddle this socket, and then begin to be phased out completely in 2012.


I don't think Thuban actually has a long life-span. But it's not like I got insider info or anything lke that...the only difference between me and msot other info sources is that I read all tech propaganda, and also listen to/attend investor meetings and the like. Investors get better info than media...

yeah, but i'm torn apart, in one side i want to see bulldozer but other side of me said 12 Core would be rock

but in the end a new socket or not won't effect me because i will buy new board when what-ever CPU will be released.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it. An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display. More pins means new socket. I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.

 

[PVTCaboose1337]

Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it. An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display. More pins means new socket. I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.

No reason to retain DDR2 support at this point. Will support DDR3 only.

 

[TheMailMan78]

My money is on a new socket.

I don't think Thuban actually has a long life-span. But it's not like I got insider info or anything lke that...the only difference between me and msot other info sources is that I read all tech propaganda, and also listen to/attend investor meetings and the like. Investors get better info than media...

Yeah says who? I'm an investor in AMD. 14k worth and I never hear shit.

 

[jagd]

AMD clearly told desktop parts of buldoser family will use AM3 socket .We will hear more things in 3 months i think
TPU news http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108095
for lazy ones
"It is in 2011, that processors up to 8 cores, based on the Bulldozer architecture, start to appear. AMD went as far as to disclose that the enthusiast-grade processor carrying the codename "Zambezi" will continue to come in the AM3 package, so now it is clear that the socket has a long road ahead. "

Page 9 at pdf
http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/FAD_2009_Platform_and_Processor_Roadmaps.pdf

Edit :Bulldozer is cpu only ,Llano is cpu+gpu one

 

[TheMailMan78]

AMD clearly told desktop parts of buldoser family will use AM3 socket .We will hear more things in 3 months i think
TPU news http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108095
for lazy ones
"It is in 2011, that processors up to 8 cores, based on the Bulldozer architecture, start to appear. AMD went as far as to disclose that the enthusiast-grade processor carrying the codename "Zambezi" will continue to come in the AM3 package, so now it is clear that the socket has a long road ahead. "

Page 9 at pdf
http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/FAD_2009_Platform_and_Processor_Roadmaps.pdf

I'm not sure it reads that way.

I could be looking to far into it but it almost sounds like the Zambezi is in fact not part of the 8 core CPU based off of the Bulldozer and is in fact the last installment of the K10.

 

[jagd]

Zambezi is codename for desktop bulldozer parts (bulldozer is codename for new cpu architecture including server/desktop/notebook ones)

I'm not sure it reads that way.

I could be looking to far into it but it almost sounds like the Zambezi is in fact not part of the 8 core CPU based off of the Bulldozer and is in fact the last installment of the K10.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Zambezi is codename for desktop bulldozer parts (bulldozer is codename for new cpu architecture including server/desktop/notebook ones)

I re-read the pdf you posted and you are 100% correct. I can run AM3 socket CPUs on my board but I doubt Bulldozer will have DDR2 support.

 

[cadaveca]

My money is on a new socket.

Yeah says who? I'm an investor in AMD. 14k worth and I never hear shit.

You must not attend or listen to the meetings then. I was one of few people saying AMD was gonna buy ATI when everyone else said no. I thoroughly enjoyed that period of time...

Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it. An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display. More pins means new socket. I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.

You mean Bobcat and Llano? Llano is the intergrated gpu part, will be both in desktops and notebooks. Bobcat is specialized low-power part.

Edit: @cadaveca I have read the Anandtech article, but I am still not convinced.

Just read the link I posted, and see that there was a news article here as well on this stuff...it's actual info direct from AMD, but is also about 6 months old, so things might have been adjusted a bit. The actual product info, and plans for chipset/etc, is basically set in stone as this point, as it takes a couple of years to develop this sort of stuff...any product coming in the next two years has been in progress for some time now, so really isn't up for speculation, except on final performance, and launch date. The actual product families will remain regardless. I mean, I knew launch date of 890FX and Thuban...why? I wasn't the only one, either....


Also, Mailman, having 14K in stock doesn't make you an investor. The fact you DON'T have info clearly says this. The investors are the driving force for the company(which is true of any company). Investors=voting shares. Not that I am an investor, but a fly on the wall.

 

[erocker]

Everything I've seen so far leads me to believe it will be AM3. Here, straight from AMD:

It will most likely be AM3. Socket doesn't make much of a difference in this case. I find the poll results funny but typical.

 

[TVman]

where do people get the idea that there is going do be a new socket for bulldozer? seriosly any links or your pulling that out of you ass ?

 

[wahdangun]

so this mean we will not get 12 core quad chanel CPU, instead we get bulldozer thats still AM3 ?


EDIT:
@TVMAN : because usually AMD desktop part was based on server, and right now, opteron use new socket for quad chanel (just like shanghai a server version of deneb). so it's only natural if we assumed that next amd cpu use different socket

 

[TVman]

so this mean we will not get 12 core quad chanel CPU, instead we get bulldozer thats still AM3 ?


EDIT:
@TVMAN : because usually AMD desktop part was based on server, and right now, opteron use new socket for quad chanel (just like shanghai a server version of deneb). so it's only natural if we assumed that next amd cpu use different socket

thats what i expected just wild quessing without any real data not trying to troll just dont like people saying shit without any real evidents *cough*Mr.Pachter*cough*

 

[MilkyWay]

I re-read the pdf you posted and you are 100% correct. I can run AM3 socket CPUs on my board but I doubt Bulldozer will have DDR2 support.

AM3 cpus are backwards compatible because of the memory controller, also to do with the number of pins. Ah but you know that.

I guess it will be a new mem controller so that it can run DDR3 over 1333mhz without overclocking. I mean i can do higher on my board but its technically overclocking over 1333mhz.

 

[manchesterutd81]

i think they have to change things up... like kierand said ddr3 at 1333mhz isn't going to cut it... i want a whole new chip i want a whole new board to take advantage of faster ram, faster gpu, and a faster chip that can eat through anything... Even space and time.. i want it to open a worm hole up and suck me into the matrix...

But seriously as an AMD enthusiasts don't we want to see change and something new to tinker with..?

josh