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Bungie and Ubisoft are taking cheat-makers to court

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subscriptions for cheats? This is a WTF moment for me never heard of this kind of cheating.

For 30 euros, a week a cheater gets Destiny 2 hacks including a PvP aimbot

I've heard/seen aimbots but I thought .... IDK what to think now.
 
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yeah this is really sad. I gave up on multiplayer gaming in PS2 days (I still play MMORPG's but that is all)... cause after x amount of games and y amount of hackers and z amount of new 'subtle' hackers (can't tell if they are cheating or not cause they are good at toggling it on off or just using subtle map hacks but not making it obvious they are)... = all together I just decided I had more fun playing against bots, and to this day I still just play against bots, and I have fun every time I do. lol

online is highly overrated imo. other than for MMORPG's.
 

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Pathetic losers. I hope they throw the book at them.
 
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You wouldn't have to sue them if you had sufficient anti-cheat solutions in place that would prevent them from running hacks, right? I'm not defending hackers but just recently we had a guy in Japan being sued by Nintendo for boosting saves for Zelda BoTW and selling his "service" online (which you can easily do on your own with a quick google so I don't see why would anyone pay for this). Next thing you know Ubi will sue people making trainers for AC games because it "ruins the experience" for players - we all know everyone loves to grind for materials in an AC game.
 
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yeah this is really sad. I gave up on multiplayer gaming in PS2 days (I still play MMORPG's but that is all)... cause after x amount of games and y amount of hackers and z amount of new 'subtle' hackers (can't tell if they are cheating or not cause they are good at toggling it on off or just using subtle map hacks but not making it obvious they are)... = all together I just decided I had more fun playing against bots, and to this day I still just play against bots, and I have fun every time I do. lol

online is highly overrated imo. other than for MMORPG's.
Totally agree.. Co-op is the only type of online interaction I'll ever do

and don't forget how toxic majority of online players are....
 
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Its intellectual property. Once you start selling cheats or buying them and trainers you are making money off of someone else hard work. Anti cheat programing is like anti pirating software. It make the game not fun if you have to jump threw a bunch of log ins and security checks. I hope it helps
 
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i mean i only need hacks so i can have fun offline
Maybe if you spent the extra 2 hours and put in a front widnow i bet half the people would not cheat
 
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subscriptions for cheats? This is a WTF moment for me never heard of this kind of cheating.
The pay-for cheat industry is way bigger than most people think and it's getting harder to detect. Some new cheats hide from Ring 0 kernel driver stuff like Vanguard by installing themselves as a Ring 0 driver of their own, whilst others involve having 2x PC's, you feed the HDMI output of PC 1 into PC 2 (like streamers often do) that runs a low-latency auto-aim AI that then observes the video stream then modifies the USB input mouse of PC1 (via a device that sits between them but passes through its genuine HID), essentially being an aim-bot that's completely undetectable to any anti-cheat software running on PC1 (and instead of "perfect snapping" each time, it's smart enough to vary it enough to make it look like the player is super good without being an infallibly perfect cheater). Given how it works, it also works on consoles as well as PC's.

Like many people, I believe multi-player peaked with LAN parties where you got together to have a laugh and lost interest as soon as it went online, became "mainstream social" and was soon overrun by the attention seekers self-obsessing about "muh online stay-tus". Lootboxes, "surprise mechanics", trolls, griefers, squeakers, DRM, anti-cheat that's just as bad as Sony Root kit was, etc, is just icing on the cake, and I'll take relaxing with a decent single player game over dealing with someone else's overly fragile ego any day.

You wouldn't have to sue them if you had sufficient anti-cheat solutions in place that would prevent them from running hacks, right? I'm not defending hackers but just recently we had a guy in Japan being sued by Nintendo for boosting saves for Zelda BoTW and selling his "service" online (which you can easily do on your own with a quick google so I don't see why would anyone pay for this). Next thing you know Ubi will sue people making trainers for AC games because it "ruins the experience" for players - we all know everyone loves to grind for materials in an AC game.
I think the war is already lost in favour of the cheaters. Things as described above (having AI based aimbots run on a non-networked 2nd PC and intelligent enough to remain below the threshold of what "patterns" server-side analysis is looking for) is undetectable both client & server-side. Even if I still were interested in multi-player, and even if it wasn't already bypassed, overly invasive client-side anti-cheat stuff like Vanguard's "Sony Rootkit 2.0" kernel drivers will never be installed on my PC no matter how "must have" the game is hyped to be. The only thing that stuff achieves is convincing me to play something else.
 
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The cheats ruined the game play in Ubisoft game The Division. It was my favorite game before all the cheats took over.
 

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I love it. Fire and brimstone for all cheaters please!
 

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I love it. Fire and brimstone for all cheaters please!
Cheating in online games is probably one of the more detestable actions in my opinion. It's right up there with doping in sports. It's not fair, it's morally questionable, and appears to mainly be a vehicle for people who's ego can't handle losing. People who do this are scum, plain and simple.
 
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Cheating in online games is probably one of the more detestable actions in my opinion. It's right up there with doping in sports. It's not fair, it's morally questionable, and appears to mainly be a vehicle for people who's ego can't handle losing. People who do this are scum, plain and simple.
yes but half the time singleplayer hacks are multiplayer because they dont make 2
 
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yeah this is really sad. I gave up on multiplayer gaming in PS2 days (I still play MMORPG's but that is all)... cause after x amount of games and y amount of hackers and z amount of new 'subtle' hackers (can't tell if they are cheating or not cause they are good at toggling it on off or just using subtle map hacks but not making it obvious they are)... = all together I just decided I had more fun playing against bots, and to this day I still just play against bots, and I have fun every time I do. lol

online is highly overrated imo. other than for MMORPG's.
Then there are the many wrongful accusations of cheating. I've never downloaded a cheat in my life yet I got accused of cheating all the time and I'm not anywhere near pro-level chops. The closest I came to cheats is researching with the goal of joining the fight against cheating.
I also like playing against bots.
 
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I've only played major mmo's where you dont have to install separate anti-cheat software. The first and only time I've had to install 3rd party anti-cheat was with 7 Days to DIE. I dont like most co-op games since most are PVP, which I avoid like an STD.

Some people think using keypress macros, think g15 keyboards, as cheating, but I don't. Some think they are not since they dont change or interfere with any code. I've had this discussion before and its pretty much evenly split between sides. Not all games really need any repeat macros, some do but not all.
 
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I'm sure it's possible to circumvent any anti cheat/protection, but it baffles me that the PC hasn't got a protected mode you can boot into, where only whitelisted games, apps and drivers can be installed and ran for the purpose of online gaming. Lets call it a Xbox mode. A small encrypted partition with just the basic stuff needed to run games, and you are only allowed to download and install stuff from the Windows Store, Steam etc. And you get the added benefit of an optimized gaming environment with less of the unnecessary crap you get in full Windows mode.
 

qubit

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I'm sure it's possible to circumvent any anti cheat/protection, but it baffles me that the PC hasn't got a protected mode you can boot into, where only whitelisted games, apps and drivers can be installed and ran for the purpose of online gaming. Lets call it a Xbox mode. A small encrypted partition with just the basic stuff needed to run games, and you only are allowed to download and install stuff from the Windows Store, Steam etc. And you get the added benefit of an optimized gaming environment with less of the unnecessary crap you get in full Windows mode.
That's the sort of environment that console run in, but cheaters still find a way, although it's harder.
 
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I've only played major mmo's where you dont have to install separate anti-cheat software. The first and only time I've had to install 3rd party anti-cheat was with 7 Days to DIE. I dont like most co-op games since most are PVP, which I avoid like an STD.

Some people think using keypress macros, think g15 keyboards, as cheating, but I don't. Some think they are not since they dont change or interfere with any code. I've had this discussion before and its pretty much evenly split between sides. Not all games really need any repeat macros, some do but not all.
Then there are glitches which is a whole other conversation. What I mean by a glitch is a bug in the game that can be exploited for gains at the detriment of other players that do not know about the glitch.
In COD4 if I remember correctly, you could map your scroll wheel as the fire button and essentially turn any gun into full auto. I remember some servers banning folks for exploiting this glitch/bug. The developer finally patched it.
 
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Unfortunately, I think the game developers will lose this. They aren't changing source code, they are changing temporary values in memory stored on a user's computer which the game companies can't control. Effectively I think it would be equal to a manufacturer trying to sue someone for installing a supercharger on their car or a device that tricks the engine into thinking it is underboosting so it increased boost 5psi. Or they are writing a front-end overlay code that monitors the video output, again nothing illegal here, just shitty.
 
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online play has been ruined for years...
 

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Rockstar been doing this for a long time, it's about time others joined in.
 
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The only way to win this war is to (re-)design games that are resistant to cheats - ie, running stuff like movement server- instead of clientside, or generally not do stuff realtime first person online multiplayer.
There's a lot of design space for games that go beyond those vulnerable genres.
 
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Its intellectual property. Once you start selling cheats or buying them and trainers you are making money off of someone else hard work. Anti cheat programing is like anti pirating software. It make the game not fun if you have to jump threw a bunch of log ins and security checks. I hope it helps
Where do you draw the line between that and mods though?

I'm guessing the EULA lays that out, but I am simply warning that we tread in dangerous waters.
 
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Then there are the many wrongful accusations of cheating. I've never downloaded a cheat in my life yet I got accused of cheating all the time and I'm not anywhere near pro-level chops. The closest I came to cheats is researching with the goal of joining the fight against cheating.
I also like playing against bots.
My college roommate and I played Counter Strike when it first came out back in '99 or 2000 and since VOIP wasn't a very common thing, we had a huge advantage over other players because we sat right across from each other. We'd call out locations and could sync our actions (flash bang and breech) tactics, we'd mow down so many people. Most games ended up with a with us having 20-30 kills and only 2-4 deaths by the time the server time ended on a map. We would join clan servers that were open for "recruiting" players and we'd mop the floor with them. A lot of times we got banned because they said we were cheating with wall hacks or aim bots, but a few clans actively sought us out and wanted us to join them for tournaments to try and win some money....but with us in college we only played the game for fun and couldn't dedicate our time like they wanted.

Fast forward 20+ years and I won't touch an online shooter type game anymore, so many people cheating that its just disgusting. Last one I played was PUBG - when it released and was new, it was okay. Many times my group and I would make it to the last 10 people or less, but once those cheats started coming out and people were speed hacking or instant headshooting (with shotguns, from 50+ yards out even), teleporting and so on I stopped caring about it and decided to not waste my time, energy or money on that crap anymore.

I hope they can take these cheat providing companies to court and do something about it....I guess we wait and see.
 
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The only way to win this war is to (re-)design games that are resistant to cheats - ie, running stuff like movement server- instead of clientside, or generally not do stuff realtime first person online multiplayer.
There's a lot of design space for games that go beyond those vulnerable genres.
I sorta agree, game devs are still using old already written reliable code so never developed server side code, at the same time client-side is still better to keep for performance reasons, soo a movement server just would not work efficiently enough.

Unfortunately, I think the game developers will lose this. They aren't changing source code, they are changing temporary values in memory stored on a user's computer which the game companies can't control. Effectively I think it would be equal to a manufacturer trying to sue someone for installing a supercharger on their car or a device that tricks the engine into thinking it is underboosting so it increased boost 5psi. Or they are writing a front-end overlay code that monitors the video output, again nothing illegal here, just shitty.
Oh? mayhaps you didnt read the article? :oops:
"The purchase page for the Destiny 2 Cheats and R6S Cheats includes key art from Plaintiffs' games, along with links to share the customer's purchase of the cheat with others on social media websites such as Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn."
I dont understand what you mean about whats not illegal.

This was also said
"impair and destroy not only the game experience, but also Plaintiffs' overall businesses and their reputation among their respective player communities."

Caught cheaters should be banned permanently, first time. If some idiot came along and ruined my playtime, I'd go for a refund since devs cant prevent it, its making playing not worth my time or headache. Ruining a game reputation hurts sales, if loss can be measure from that, I'm all for suing those responsible.
 
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