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Can we undervolt i7 10750H (Comet Lake)?

Ravenik

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Hi, I have just bought a laptop from MSI (GP75 10SEK) with Comet Lake CPU: i7 10750H. I experience the problem that in MSI:"Silent Scenario" (which is not totally silent - fans do rotate) the CPU reaches from time to time 95*C (in gaming/demos) and sometimes (rather too often) reaches even throttling. I could use MSI:"Balanced Scenario" (resulting in CPU & GPU about 75*C) but I am quite allergic to noise. So please tell me if I can undervolt my CPU, so that it would reach a few degrees Centigrade less in silent fan scenario?
Currently I set Offset Voltage=-50.8mV for CPU core - in Throttlestop/FIVR, click apply or ok, but in monitoring panel it is still Offset=0.0.
I attach a screenshot. Windows 10 x64 home.

Is it ever possible to undervolt this CPU?

Currently I have to set CPU max limit 99% in Windows' power plan - to keep the system silent in games, but it seems to be somwehat imperfect method (it seems to completely disable Turbo and limits CPU multiplier to 25x )
 

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FIVR control is Locked.
You may have to wait for @unclewebb to reply and assist.
 
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Plundervolt, the fix for which is to disable voltage control, was discovered last year and began being remedied this year. 10750H, a Comet Lake part, released well into this year, after Plundervolt. You will not be able to control voltage, because out of the box, it is already disabled for Comet Lake.

If you had certain Kaby Lake-R, Whiskey Lake or Coffee Lake parts that started out life with BIOSes that predated the Plundervolt discovery, you might be able to BIOS downgrade to re-enable it. But that's not the case here with Comet Lake.
 

unclewebb

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Looks like ThrottleStop supports your Comet Lake CPU. The bad news is that Intel has disabled voltage control with their December microcode update. Older computers could use a previous BIOS version but you probably do not have that option.

You might be able to control your CPU speed by adjusting the Speed Shift max value. Blame Intel for this mess.

Edit- As you found out, 99% for max processor state disables turbo boost entirely. Use 100% and try Speed Shift Max instead.

Some Dell owners have found a fix.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fzv599
 
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Ravenik

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Thanks for support. I was able to set Speed Shift maximum rate and it really works.

A regards the fix by Dell owners, I am able to use UEFITool and find "CFG Lock" and "Overclocking Lock" within a BIOS file downloaded from MSI website, but I will wait form someone more confident to perform this mod for MSI.
 

m4sereal

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Hi, I have just bought a laptop from MSI (GP75 10SEK) with Comet Lake CPU: i7 10750H. I experience the problem that in MSI:"Silent Scenario" (which is not totally silent - fans do rotate) the CPU reaches from time to time 95*C (in gaming/demos) and sometimes (rather too often) reaches even throttling. I could use MSI:"Balanced Scenario" (resulting in CPU & GPU about 75*C) but I am quite allergic to noise. So please tell me if I can undervolt my CPU, so that it would reach a few degrees Centigrade less in silent fan scenario?
Currently I set Offset Voltage=-50.8mV for CPU core - in Throttlestop/FIVR, click apply or ok, but in monitoring panel it is still Offset=0.0.
I attach a screenshot. Windows 10 x64 home.

Is it ever possible to undervolt this CPU?

Currently I have to set CPU max limit 99% in Windows' power plan - to keep the system silent in games, but it seems to be somwehat imperfect method (it seems to completely disable Turbo and limits CPU multiplier to 25x )
Thanks for support. I was able to set Speed Shift maximum rate and it really works.

A regards the fix by Dell owners, I am able to use UEFITool and find "CFG Lock" and "Overclocking Lock" within a BIOS file downloaded from MSI website, but I will wait form someone more confident to perform this mod for MSI.


Yea.. I have been having major issues with stress tests or even PUBG hitting close to 100C and thermal throttling.

My only fix was to disable turbo, undervolted core by -.125mv and changed all turbo clocks to 50. Keeps idle temps mid 40s and games like LoL it stays around 60C. PUBG still pushes 70 but better than 90s.
 

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unclewebb

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@m4se- Try undervolting the cache as well. -125 mV for both is a good place to start. From here, you might be able to undervolt the core further. Use Cinebench R20 for testing purposes.

This is a locked CPU. No point in increasing the turbo ratios. This CPU will ignore any request beyond the default ratios.
 

nathashakck

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Hi @unclewebb and @Ravenik

I am having Helios 300 2020 refresh with 10750 processor. As you know my laptop also locked for undervolting. Also i am new to the undervolting and underclocking. Can you please take a moment to tell me how did set Speed Shift maximum rate and what are the values you put on? it would be great if you could provide me with screen shot.

Also there is no point of setting voltage ofset to 120mv at all? I was thinking to reduce ofset by -120mv and multipliers to 35. so is this useless? thanks a lot for your help and replies in advance :)
 

unclewebb

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my laptop also locked for undervolting.
I was thinking to reduce ofset by -120mv
If your laptop is locked for under volting, why would you set the offset at -120 mV? It is not going to work if your CPU is locked.

You do not need to see a screenshot to adjust the Speed Shift Max value. Open up the TPL window and set this to whatever value you like. If you want to cool your CPU down then set this to 35 and your CPU will run at a maximum of 3500 MHz. Post some screenshots if you need help.
 

nathashakck

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If your laptop is locked for under volting, why would you set the offset at -120 mV? It is not going to work if your CPU is locked.

You do not need to see a screenshot to adjust the Speed Shift Max value. Open up the TPL window and set this to whatever value you like. If you want to cool your CPU down then set this to 35 and your CPU will run at a maximum of 3500 MHz. Post some screenshots if you need help.
Thank you very much . will try and let you know.
 

Ravenik

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Hi nathashakck. I gave up modifying Speed Shift values because I succeeded in unlocking underclocking and undervolting. To achieve it I followed this instruction with one modification: for steps 6 and 7 I used RU.efi tool, which allowed me to remove locks by writing 00 in CFG Lock and Overclocking Lock. Then I was able to undervolt. After some time I discovered a secret keyboard keys combination to access and remove this locks using original MSI Bios interface.
 
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TyroPro

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Thank you very much . will try and let you know.

Hi nathanshakck, I was just wondering how that Speed Shift Max value adjustment worked out for you? I recently ordered an HP laptop with the i7 10750H and am trying to research as best as I can on how to keep it cool before it arrives. Thank you :)
 

october3

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this is rough & ready testing below, (HP i7-10750H)

about 22% less in benchmark between stock and having the power to cpu restricted (to get lower cpu temps and so no max fan)

I am going to re-paste cpu, see if that helps. Getting couple of cores hotter, not sure if its paste or how the turbo logic works.
Will be good if someone can hack the HP laptops to allow undervolt, every little helps

it is still very fast with 30/38watts in throttlestop

1597172811153.png
 

Zen88

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I was doing very good, but now smth happend
Throttle stop is not working, I mean in FIVR disabled all
But XTU is working, in Bios Overclocking enabled and XTU also
 

iamyourfatha

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Hey guys, I know this is an old thread, but I have done a lot of googling and am at a dead end.

I got a Razer Blade 2020 Base with the Intel i7 10750H and the RTX 2060 (not the Max Q).
Now, it games just fine, but it gets far too hot and I am concerned about it, it even got up to 95C one time and I panicked.

So I cannot undervolt the CPU. I tried checking the BIOS (an update around Dec 2020 disabled it altogether), I tried Intel XTU, and Throttle Stop.

Then I thought hey maybe it's the GPU that's making all this heat, and the CPU is fine. So I ran TimeSpy on 3D mark, and it was indeed the CPU creating all the heat.
you can clearly see it throttling as well as it gets hot, there are sudden cliffs where the temp drops, which I am sure is throttling.

So I followed @unclewebb instruction above to instead change the SpeedShift, and I dropped it from 128 (standard) to 115, but have seen almost no difference.
The SST is green so it is clearly working, but maybe I am just doing it wrong?
Could I get some assistance with this if possible?

I am attaching the stock score and temps, as well as the SST 115 score and temps, and the throttling and temps are basically identical. (they are named accordingly)
Edit: I also tried increasing the number (after some further research) to 100, and I am getting the same results, it gets far too hot
any help would be appreciated!

Thanks :D

Edit: I did check the FIVR window to confirm that my SST value is the one that is effective , and it is as it was at the 115 I set it to (128 was default).
 

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unclewebb

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A slight Speed Shift EPP change from 128 to 115 is not going to make any significant difference to anything.
Any temperature under 100°C is a normal operating temperature according to Intel. No need to break out into a cold sweat. :)
Your computer is designed to automatically slow down if it gets too hot. It will automatically shut down if it gets really, really hot. No worries.

Gaming laptops run hot. Most have poorly designed thermal solutions. Everyone wants a thin laptop so there is no room for proper cooling.

Your laptop runs hot and CPU voltage control is locked so you cannot use that trick. The only other thing you can do is slow your computer down so it does not run so hot. Many games are GPU dependent so the will still play just fine if you slow your CPU down 500 MHz. The turbo ratio limits are locked so to slow your CPU down, go in the TPL window and try lowering the Speed Shift Max value. Set this to 35 and your CPU will run at a maximum of 3500 MHz.

Some tests in Time Spy load the entire CPU while other tests only load one core. It is normal for the CPU temperature to drop significantly the moment a full load test suddenly ends.

If you need any further help, turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and go play a game for at least 15 minutes. When done testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. This log will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach one to your next post and I will have a look at it. Before you start, go into the Options window and turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring so your GPU speed and temps will be included in your log file.
 

iamyourfatha

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Hey @unclewebb, Thank you so much for your detailed and complete responses (even on other threads), it means a lot to me!

So I ran like 20 different tests, giving each interval a 5-minute break to get the computer back to a comparable temperature before starting again, and I have figured it out!

Afterburner on Default,
CPU with Turbo turned off
Speedshift turned off

AND BAM

GTA V @ 1440p Ultra Sitting at 95-110 FPS while running at a package temp of only 76 C (highest,avg was 72 C), and yes, I did check with multiple temp checkers, even a physical one, and they all told the same story (physical laser thermometer got 74 C)!

So I am very happy, and thanks to your explanations I know what all these things are for the future. I was actually considering returning my razer blade and moving back to a full desktop for gaming and using laptops for work, but looks like I am here to stay now!

Also, the 95C from earlier scared me because I have never gamed on a laptop before (never had a dedicated GPU laptop before), and on my gaming PC I never ever passed 30C on anything even on full load (liquid + fans on stock clocks for cpu+gpu)! So the 95 was just a shock to me!
 

unclewebb

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CPU with Turbo turned off
Another option is you can turn Turbo Boost back on and to lower the CPU speed, just adjust the Speed Shift Max value in the TPL window lower. This gives you full control over how much turbo boost the CPU uses. This way you are not forced to completely disable it. A Speed Shift Max setting of 35 gets you ~3500 MHz.

Some games are GPU dependent so they will play fine when turbo boost is disabled. Other games are more CPU dependent so being able to use some turbo boost might help those games.

Gaming laptop manufacturers seem to think it is OK for their laptops to run constantly in the 90°C to 95°C range. I think it would be a lot better user experience if they included an adequate heatsink and fan. Aiming for 80°C and not forcing users to slow their CPUs down makes sense to me but not to them.
 

iamyourfatha

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Thanks! I will change the speed shift max values and leave the turbo on and the speed shift epp to default (128), and see if that makes any improvements!

Edit:
That was it! That's what I have been trying for this whole time! Better performance, temperatures, and fan noise!
Check out this AWESOME score! (remember, my last best was 5800 and the default was 5744)
At the verrrrrry end, the computer passed 80 C, but now that I know what I am doing, I am sure I can tweak it touch further and maintain an around 6100 score and lower the temps to around 80 or below!

Thanks @unclewebb you're the GOAT!
 

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Now that you're here, why not follow the rabbit hole further and try to undervolt the GPU? Most (if not all) laptops feature a shared heatsink design, so any watts you can take from either component will help the other
 

iamyourfatha

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@Vader Sorry for my late reply!
I am going to try a few things.
-First I ordered some Thermal Grizzly thermal paste, to repaste the GPU and CPU (doesn't look too difficult),
-I cannot undervolt the 10750H, It won't let me in BIOS, throttle stop, or intel's extreme thingy, and it turns out that in a bios update around December 2020, they removed that ability
-I also got an angled stand that has an open bottom, and I found that it actually works better than the laptop pad with fans I had, so that has helped a degree to two on average as well

what I could give for a Ryzen 7, 9, or shit even a Ryzen 5 CPU in a Razer.
I sold my HP Omen with the Ryzen 7 and that blew this out of the water in temps and CPU speed, and my dad's budget laptop has a Ryzen 5 and even those benchmarks are either on par or slightly better with intel 10th and 11th gen.
Some people think I downgraded with I sold the Omen (in some ways I did), but to me, nothing beats build quality so I went with the Razer.
 

iamyourfatha

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So now I have a new question, it might be a newb one, but you can't know until you try! lol

So,
to recap, RazerBlade 15 Base with 10750H + 2060 (Max P, not the quiet one)

Just for reference, I am playing BioShock Remastered on steam, with Brave browser running and using minimal cpu/ram in the background (say like 2 tabs, no biggie).

I am in the game for exactly 28 minutes, and my CPU and GPU are barely being touched. This game doesn't require that much power (it is pretty old).
My GPU @ 100% 3D and about 30% Memory sits at sound 45C, and has never passed 50C (for the whole month I have been monitoring it).
My CPU on the other hand,
at only 30-40% load, continuously sits at around 75C when gaming, and even reached 86C today.
It is only at 35% or so percent load, so why would it be making this much heat? I even had throttle stop on to keep it from turbo-boosting too high!
The fans get so annoying when it gets to these temperatures, and considering how little power I am using, it really shouldn't be getting this hot (at least I don't think so).

Any tips or advice on how to fix this?
The screenshots I took were during gameplay, so if there is a student small dip near the end of the chart, that was me tabbing out to take the screenshot.
 

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unclewebb

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It is only at 35% or so percent load, so why would it be making this much heat?
Intel's ancient 14nm CPU technology runs fast but puts out a LOT of heat. When you put one of these things in a 15 inch laptop, you better include a well designed heatsink and fan.

Intel says their CPUs can run reliably up to 100°C. Laptop manufacturers seem to have that number in the back of their head when designing laptops. They do not blink when temperatures are at 90°C on a regular basis. They do not see some occasional thermal throttling as a problem. Apple has got rich designing laptops like this so why not follow their lead.

It is what it is. Many modern laptops run hot and loud. Poor design is the #1 problem. Everyone knows how much heat Intel CPUs produce. It would be nice if they put some more metal in their heatsinks but they do not.
 
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