Can you lose data over time when leaving SSD/USB flash drive unpowered

[Grog6]

I had a 3.5" set with the same data, it was not recoverable.

 

[newtekie1]

Okay. The point remains the same. EIDE is not compatible with AT and SATA is not compatible with EIDE. And the point was, even though the data may remain viable, if you can't access that because the interface is no longer available, the data is worthless.

I wasn't arguing that point, just correcting the information.

As far as long transition periods allowing for backwards support, that's not the point. Many new motherboards today have no EIDE drive interfaces and certainly don't have AT. Yes, there are still adapters available but they are thinning out too.

I used to use Adaptec tapes to back up my drives. One installed in a 5.25 drive bay and used the AT interface. Another tape drive used the now obsolete parallel port. Other obsolete or near obsolete commonly used media for backups were 5.25 floppies, 3.5" floppys, and CDs. DVDs are pretty much history too.

People have precious memories on VCR tape but VCR players are pretty scarce.

I am not a fan of storing my data in "the cloud" but that may be the only real permanent solution because access to that data will evolve and maintain compatibility - unlike access though obsolete hardware we have locally.

FTR, It is not that I dislike the cloud out of fear my data will get lost. I am certain there are already more copies than anyone knows. My fear is those responsible for keeping it secure and out of the hands of the bad guys are incompetent and will negligently allow our data to be hacked and stolen.

The mentality of having a "permanent" solution is the dangerous part. No one should be looking for, or expecting, a permanent solution. And the expectation that there is one is I think the problem you are having with understanding my point.

No one should expect to put data away for 10+ years, totally forget about it, and then expect it to still be there. If your memories are so precious, they shouldn't be on VHS anymore. There has been plenty of time to transition that data to something more modern that is still readily supported. Yes, there is an extra hurdle of transitioning from analog to digitlal involved with transitioning from VHS, but it should have been done by now if you really cared about that data. We are talking about digital data in this thread, which makes it easier. When SATA became the norm, all my PATA drives were slowly retired over the transition, and by the time motherboards ditched EIDE ports, I didn't have an PATA drives anyway. Anyone that just picks a format and never updates with time is an idiot. You have to be fluid with you data storage, you have to always keep up with the evolution over time. It's just a fact.

I'm digitizing vhs tales from the 80's; none have degraded.

I guarantee you they have degraded. But you're talking analog video, so you probably didn't even notice the degradation. Analog video can degrade a lot before most people will notice.

You're lucky then, I tried to get some stuff off a few 3.5" floppies a few years ago and a lot of the data had been corrupted.
A lot of this has to do with storage temperature and humidity, as both are killers of computer hardware.

Yep. There are issues with every type of storage media. Optical has issues with the reflective surface degrading, corrupting data or in some cases making the whole disc unreadable. With magnetic storage, there is issues of the magnetic coating on the disk degrading. This same thing can happen with magnetic tapes too. Flash media cells leak over time unpowered. Cloud storage puts your data safety in the hands of someone else who you hope does their job, plus the internet could go down right when you need it.

The solution? 3-2-1

 

[Keullo-e]

Floppies are absolutely the most unreliable storage, or I've just had bad luck back in the day..

 

[Bill_Bright]

The mentality of having a "permanent" solution is the dangerous part. No one should be looking for, or expecting, a permanent solution. And the expectation that there is one is I think the problem you are having with understanding my point.

I do understand your point. I just didn't understand the point for arguing over minutia when the gist remained the same. I never said anything is permanent. I said the cloud "may be" the only permanent solution and I clarified that by adding that is only because it will "evolve". The fact it will evolve even suggests a non-permanence to it.

That said, as I said in my first post in this thread, the lesson is, "have multiple backups on a variety of storage media."

 

[candle_86]

Okay. The point remains the same. EIDE is not compatible with AT and SATA is not compatible with EIDE. And the point was, even though the data may remain viable, if you can't access that because the interface is no longer available, the data is worthless.

As far as long transition periods allowing for backwards support, that's not the point. Many new motherboards today have no EIDE drive interfaces and certainly don't have AT. Yes, there are still adapters available but they are thinning out too.

I used to use Adaptec tapes to back up my drives. One installed in a 5.25 drive bay and used the AT interface. Another tape drive used the now obsolete parallel port. Other obsolete or near obsolete commonly used media for backups were 5.25 floppies, 3.5" floppys, and CDs. DVDs are pretty much history too.

People have precious memories on VCR tape but VCR players are pretty scarce.

I am not a fan of storing my data in "the cloud" but that may be the only real permanent solution because access to that data will evolve and maintain compatibility - unlike access though obsolete hardware we have locally.

FTR, It is not that I dislike the cloud out of fear my data will get lost. I am certain there are already more copies than anyone knows. My fear is those responsible for keeping it secure and out of the hands of the bad guys are incompetent and will negligently allow our data to be hacked and stolen.

The idea is to keep away to read that data. I do data recovery and have a Pentium 1 class machine for it, because it still supports old drive standards. I also have a pci Express to ide raid card, pci Express to Sara raid, and a USB ide dock and USB data dock. I also have a 3.5in caddy for mSATA to sata and an nvme to USB 3 adapter, oh and a USB floppy drive.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The idea is to keep away to read that data.

What?

Wait! Five reads and a few gulps of coffee later and now I see. You omitted a space.

The idea is to keep "a" way to read the data.​

And I agree. But that is not always possible. Just as the media can be become obsolete, so can the hardware needed to read it. I mentioned tape backups in an earlier post. Those drives are no longer being made. Motors have a tendency to seize if not used for years. Drive belts become brittle and break. At some point your Pentium 1 Class machine will die too and adapter cards will no longer be available.

So the idea really is to keep your backups current. That is, regularly transfer (make new copies) of your precious data using the latest technologies to keep your grandkids digital photos viable.

 

[candle_86]

What?

Wait! Five reads and a few gulps of coffee later and now I see. You omitted a space.

The idea is to keep "a" way to read the data.​

And I agree. But that is not always possible. Just as the media can be become obsolete, so can the hardware needed to read it. I mentioned tape backups in an earlier post. Those drives are no longer being made. Motors have a tendency to seize if not used for years. Drive belts become brittle and break. At some point your Pentium 1 Class machine will die too and adapter cards will no longer be available.

So the idea really is to keep your backups current. That is, regularly transfer (make new copies) of your precious data using the latest technologies to keep your grandkids digital photos viable.

Ideally yes, but if you really need to access old data formats a supplier still makes a product to access it thanks to industrial machines. For instance you can get a Skylake on an isa backplane that will support plenty of legacy controllers, it's expensive but it exists

 

[Bill_Bright]

Ideally yes, but if you really need to access old data formats a supplier still makes a product to access it thanks to industrial machines.

That's just not true. Eventually, old technologies completely disappear - except, maybe, from museums. No company is going to keep manufacturing products if they don't sell - and sell for a profit. Sure, adapters may stick around for awhile but eventually, even they will disappear too.

 

[Grog6]

Floppies are absolutely the most unreliable storage, or I've just had bad luck back in the day..

It's not just you.

I was amazed that I was able to get the data back from that set of 5.25" floppies.

I tried the 3.5" set first, and it was trashed; I still had computers with 3.5" drives.

So, I went to the Cold Storage in the basement, and dug out a System 330 IBM server I keep as a spare for one of the Data Aq machines, and yanked its floppy and cable.

The 5.25" set worked fine, much to my amazement.

While I was down there, I noticed the pile of st225 drives, so I dug out a controller card, and found the one marked "Win311 Programming Suite" while I was there.
Maybe the "DOS 5.0 Programming Suite" is next, lol.

The one Win311 drive was retired in 1991...