Capacator Age and PSU Lifetime

Bo$$ · Jul 18, 2015

I have a ThermalTake Toughpower 850w i bought it second hand of another member of the forum in 2010 or so, it's build date is around 2009. It's been use heavily as my main PSU with SLI and Crossfire over the years

My question, at what point is it too old (in terms of safety) and when should i buy a new one?

buildzoid · Jul 18, 2015

Bo$$ said:
I have a ThermalTake Toughpower 850w i bought it second hand of another member of the forum in 2010 or so, it's build date is around 2009. It's been use heavily as my main PSU with SLI and Crossfire over the years

My question, at what point is it too old (in terms of safety) and when should i buy a new one?

IMO now would be a good time to replace it. Tt PSU as crap and you should replace even a good PSU after 5/7 years of use.

OneMoar · Jul 18, 2015

replace ... Tt wasn't always crap but they are now adays

R-T-B · Jul 18, 2015

buildzoid said:
IMO now would be a good time to replace it. Tt PSU as crap and you should replace even a good PSU after 5/7 years of use.

There's far worse out there than that PSU, but now would not be a bad time to start looking for a new one as they aren't great in the first place.

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

10 years means 25% less capacity as a rule...

But there are unlimited ways to die, ain't it?

especially for a cap living in hot hellish place like PSU.

My old venerable Enermax Galaxy 1000W DXX (EGX1000EWL) bought in 2008, at last made pregnant caps on the secondary side after 6 of usage... The PSU is still nice even by todays standards and I will replace all caps and make it run again on some secondary system. But the morale should be the same with your PSU too...

erocker · Jul 18, 2015

I have PSU's in machines at work that run everyday since the late 90's. If the unit isn't giving you trouble and the voltage is within spec, use it.

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
I have PSU's in machines at work that run everyday since the late 90's. If the unit isn't giving you trouble and the voltage is within spec, use it.

It ain't about the voltage... your ripple increases and various instability scenarios driving the PWM circuit to hell during load.

Bo$$ · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
voltage is within spec

Past whipping out a multimeter I wouldn't be able to tell that

(in another pc) should i think about swapping a 3 year old OCZ ModXtreme pro 600w??

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

Bo$$ said:
Past whipping out a multimeter I wouldn't be able to tell that

(in another pc) should i think about swapping a 3 year old OCZ ModXtreme pro 600w??

Does it still have warranty, if yes then try to RMA it saying it randomly switches off

Bo$$ · Jul 18, 2015

Ferrum Master said:
Does it still have warranty, if yes then try to RMA it saying it randomly switches off

Nope it was a warranty replacement for another with a bad bearing after several years

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

Bo$$ said:
Nope it was a warranty replacement for another with a bad bearing after several years

Sh!t... we cannot tell then how really old it is, probably refurbished unit

. But we like gambling...

It should be ok... the critical time is 5 years on average for PSU's. Open up, inspect it for bulged caps. Blow away the dust and use it...

Bo$$ · Jul 18, 2015

Ferrum Master said:
Sh!t... we cannot tell then how really old it is, probably refurbished unit . But we like gambling...

It should be ok... the critical time is 5 years on average for PSU's. Open up, inspect it for bulged caps. Blow away the dust and use it...

hahahah yeah exactly! i will probably change out the 850w and inspect the OCZ when i get some time

erocker · Jul 18, 2015

Ferrum Master said:
It ain't about the voltage... your ripple increases and various instability scenarios driving the PWM circuit to hell during load.

Yes. When I say "check voltage" it means more than just looking at a number.

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
When I say "check voltage" it means more than just looking at a number.

In the schools they are teaching something else still... voltage is voltage... maybe something has changed? So far ripple can be seen only using an oscilloscope and a proper dummy load, I bet that seldom who has ones at home. Nevertheless your equipment at work since late 90ties doesn't run a 780th and a Sandy Bridge, so the recommendation is quite awkward...

Bill_Bright · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
If the unit isn't giving you trouble and the voltage is within spec, use it.

I agree.

Ferrum Master said:
It ain't about the voltage... your ripple increases and various instability scenarios driving the PWM circuit to hell during load.

And what is ripple and instability all about? Variances in the voltage. So erocker is right.

If your ripple is too high, your voltages are out of tolerance or no longer stable, then you will see this in your computer suddenly shutting down or rebooting, or maybe artifacts in your graphics. If your computer is still working fine, then as erocker correctly advised, "use it"!

Normal users cannot measure ripple and there is nothing to say a brand new PSU will not have excessive ripple, even a top rated PSU. Your motherboard can easily handle quite a bit since the ATX standard allows up to 120mV P-P on the 12VDC rails and 50mV P-P on the 5 and 3.3VDC rails and most PSUs come in well under those values, even when old.

Out of tolerances conditions are more likely to be seen first and normal users can monitor them with decent hardware monitoring programs like Speccy or if knowledgeable and careful, with a multi-meter.

So I see no reason to replace a PSU just because it is getting old if it is still doing its job. And being an 850W, it is highly unlikely it is been stressed much with heavy loads during its lifetime either - another reason to be less concerned about its age.

Frick · Jul 18, 2015

Bill_Bright said:
Out of tolerances conditions are more likely to be seen first and normal users can monitor them with decent hardware monitoring programs like Speccy or if knowledgeable and careful, with a multi-meter.

I am maintaining that you simply cannot trust software for this. The Corsair Links and whathaveyou of the world are probably coming close, but not the normal stuff.

Ferrum Master · Jul 18, 2015

Bill_Bright said:
So I see no reason to replace a PSU just because it is getting old if it is still doing its job. And being an 850W, it is highly unlikely it is been stressed much with heavy loads during its lifetime either - another reason to be less concerned about its age.

I guess you all fail to see the specs... He uses heavily clocked systems. Thus hot and well worn out. At load 400-500W.

Those monitoring programs are rubbish, and none of them show the correct levels and thus most motherboards lie, those uncalibrated 8-12 ADC's from motherboard's LPC? LoL..

I was talking not about the output voltage only but the PWM drive... thus causing anomalies and abnormal signal figures. It causes the unit work inefficiently, hot despite it still works it is a ticking time bomb. When did you last time open up a so called fine working PSU unit? Have you tried to take out the components and measure them?

A bulged cap can explode and release its contents into the PSU thus causing short cut and it often short out the primary stage and a killing spike at the secondaries also appear, making your shiny PC a cemetery.

If the PSU is cheap crap it doesn't have proper fast protection circuitry(it may also cease to work due to a dry 10uF angel looking cap), there are loads of killer PSU's that output normal output voltage, but spikes during power down or power up.

Frick said:
I am maintaining that you simply cannot trust software for this. The Corsair Links and whathaveyou of the world are probably coming close, but not the normal stuff.

Ahh yes...
Axi series and a DSP based PSU driver... the voltage reading exclusion upon you can trust acactually.

AsRock · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
I have PSU's in machines at work that run everyday since the late 90's. If the unit isn't giving you trouble and the voltage is within spec, use it.

+1

And to not forget to clean the PSU out like you do every thing else. People tend to forget to clean out a psu even if it's just using canned air though the vents.

buildzoid · Jul 18, 2015

Bill_Bright said:
And what is ripple and instability all about? Variances in the voltage. So erocker is right.

Good luck ever measuring voltage ripple without spending at least 200$ on an oscilloscope.

erocker · Jul 18, 2015

buildzoid said:
Good luck ever measuring voltage ripple without spending at least 200$ on an oscilloscope.

It's kinda do-able with a multimeter.

Bo$$ · Jul 18, 2015

Yeah it's been through a few years of hard use. At one stage 2-4 months of 24/7 with dual Xeons and 3 6970s under full load before it went back into this system

buildzoid · Jul 18, 2015

erocker said:
It's kinda do-able with a multimeter.

How? 12V with 200mv of ripple will show up as 12V

OneMoar · Jul 18, 2015

at 5 years of service
REPLACE IT
JUST DO IT !

RejZoR · Jul 18, 2015

Check if capacitors are inflated or if they are leaking brown goo. If not, PSU is most likely fine. It's the capacitors that tend to crap out over time and after exposure to heat...

erocker · Jul 18, 2015

buildzoid said:
How? 12V with 200mv of ripple will show up as 12V

Some multimeters have a block capacitor in them that don't total the sum like some cheaper ones do. So, the readings constantly fluctuate. Hand held battery/alternator testers work the same way.

Going back to where I said I have some old PSU's I use, I'm not saying he shouldn't get a new PSU. I probably wouldn't use an old PSU in my home rig.

System Name	Desktop \| Server
Processor	Intel i7 2700k @ 4.6GHZ \| AMD 5350 @ 2500MHZ
Motherboard	Asus P7Z77-V Pro \| Asus AM1I-A
Cooling	Corsair H60v2 \| Stock Air
Memory	Crucial Ballistix 2x8GB CL8 1600MHZ \| Corsair Vengence 2x4GB CL9 1600MHZ
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 1060 6GB \| PNY GTX 750Ti
Storage	Samsung 840 EVO 250GB + 4TB WD Red \| 2x Seagate Barracuda 2TB
Display(s)	Samsung S27D390H + Asus VE276Q \| Headless
Case	Fractal Design R5 \| CM Elite 110
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar D1 w/Otone Stilo 5.1 and Creative Fatal1ty headset
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 850 G2\| Corsair CX430M
Mouse	Razer Imperator 2012
Keyboard	Corsair K90
Software	Windows 7 SP1 X64 \| Ubuntu 16.04LTS

System Name	TITAN Slayer / CPUCannon / MassFX
Processor	i7 5960X @ 4.6Ghz / i7 3960x @5.0Ghz / FX6350 @ 4.?Ghz
Motherboard	Rampage V Extreme / Rampage IV Extreme / MSI 970 Gaming
Cooling	Phanteks PHTC14PE 2.5K 145mm TRs / Custom waterloop / Phanteks PHTC14PE + 3K 140mm Noctuas
Memory	Crucial 2666 11-13-13-25 1.45V / G.skill RipjawsX 2400 10-12-12-34 1.7V / Crucial 2133 9-9-9-27 1.7V
Video Card(s)	3 Fury X in CF / R9 Fury 3840 cores 1145/570 1.3V / Nothing ATM
Storage	500GB Crucial SSD and 3TB WD Black / WD 1TB Black(OS) + WD 3TB Green / WD 1TB Blue
Display(s)	LG 29UM67 80Hz/Asus mx299q 2560x1080 @ 84Hz / Asus VX239 1920x1080 @60hz
Case	Dismatech easy v3.0 / Xigmatek Alfar (Open side panel)
Audio Device(s)	M-audio M-track / realtek ALC 1150
Power Supply	EVGA G2 1600W / CoolerMaster V1000 / Seasonic 620 M12-II
Mouse	Mouse in review process/Razer Naga Epic 2011/Razer Naga 2014
Keyboard	Keyboard in review process / Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2014/Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2011
Software	Windows 7 Ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate
Benchmark Scores	cinebench 15.41 3960x @ 5.3ghz Wprime32m 3.352 3960x @ 5.25ghz Super PI 32m: 6m 42s 472ms @5.25ghz

System Name	RPC MK2.5
Processor	Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard	Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling	Enermax ETX-T50RGB
Memory	CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s)	GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage	ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s)	LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case	Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse	Kone burst Pro
Keyboard	EVGA Z15
Software	Windows 11 +startisallback

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

System Name	HELLSTAR
Processor	AMD RYZEN 9 5950X
Motherboard	ASUS Strix X570-E
Cooling	2x 360 + 280 rads. 3x Gentle Typhoons, 3x Phanteks T30, 2x TT T140 . EK-Quantum Momentum Monoblock.
Memory	4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z RGB F4-4133C19D-16GTZR 14-16-12-30-44
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse RX 7900XTX + under waterblock.
Storage	Optane 900P[W11] + WD BLACK SN850X 4TB + 750 EVO 500GB + 1TB 980PRO[FEDORA]
Display(s)	Philips PHL BDM3270 + Acer XV242Y
Case	Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s)	Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Fractal Design Newton R3 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk
Keyboard	Razer BlackWidow V3 - Yellow Switch
Software	FEDORA 39 / Windows 11 insider

Capacator Age and PSU Lifetime

Bo$$

Lab Extraordinaire

buildzoid

OneMoar

There is Always Moar

R-T-B

Ferrum Master

erocker

*

Ferrum Master

Bo$$

Lab Extraordinaire

Ferrum Master

Bo$$

Lab Extraordinaire

Ferrum Master

Bo$$

Lab Extraordinaire

erocker

*

Ferrum Master

Bill_Bright

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop

Ferrum Master

AsRock

TPU addict

buildzoid

erocker

*

Bo$$

Lab Extraordinaire

buildzoid

OneMoar

There is Always Moar

RejZoR

erocker

*

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling	EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory	32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	WD m.2
Display(s)	LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case	Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s)	Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse	Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard	Tester84
Software	Windows 11

System Name	Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor	Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling	Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s)	Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse	Logitech M190
Keyboard	Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software	W10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	Black MC in Tokyo
Processor	Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard	Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling	Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory	2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s)	XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage	Kingston A400 240GB \| WD Black SN750 2TB \|WD Blue 1TB x 2 \| Toshiba P300 2TB \| Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s)	Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s)	Line6 UX1 + some headphones, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse	Logitech G602
Keyboard	Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
VR HMD	Acer Mixed Reality Headset
Software	Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	Rimworld 4K ready!

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Video Card(s)	eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX RX 6950XT RX-695XATBD9
Storage	Sammy 860, MX500, Sabrent Rocket 4 Sammy Evo 980 \ 1xSabrent Rocket 4+, Sammy 2x990 Pro
Display(s)	Samsung 1080P \ LG 43UN700
Case	Fractal Design Pop Air 2x140mm fans from Torrent \ Fractal Design Torrent 2 SilverStone FHP141x2
Audio Device(s)	Yamaha RX-V677 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 Infinity RS4000\Paradigm P Studio 20, Blue Yeti
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime TX-750 \ Corsair RM1000X Shift
Mouse	Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard	Logitech K120 \ Wooting Two HE
Benchmark Scores	Meh benchmarks.