Caselabs Returns

[Deleted member 24505]

I had a TT core X9, not sure if it was a copy of a CL or not, but was pretty well made, material seemed thick, was very sturdy, ut in the end too big for me, was as big as a coffee table lol.

 

[sneekypeet]

They went under due to a few factors, tarrif's eating profit, loss of a large client and being sued by thermal take for copying their own designs.

As far as build quality I can't see why anyone would not be impressed some panels weren't able exactly rigid but compared to 90% of the market they were like comparing a tank to a Barbie car, personally I'm the type of person that if I'm not happy with a product I simply fix it I know that's not a usual thing to do but it's what I and I'm sure others would do. Their designs were industrial so adding some extruded angle and tapping a few holes never seemed like an issue to me but then I'm the type of person to cut huge holes out of cases for better airflow.View attachment 220088

I will say again. AFAIK Thermaltake never had any litigation against them. Caselabs came up with a receipt (faked) that someone who worked at TT bought one and slandered TT. It was for that where Thermaltake said they could cause issues. CL apologized to Tt over it, so in the world view showing fault. Otherwise they could have just went away with integrity, but chose not to. There were also rumors that a TT employee stole their ideas from a Lan, where does it end?

Unless you can find proof of litigation it's all a cop out rumor from CL.

 

[GamerGuy]

A pic of my Caselabs M8, it's a big a$$ case with plenty of space, this was a while back when I had 2x GB RX VEGA64 Gaming OC. Solid case, been with me afor a while now.....

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I will say again. AFAIK Thermaltake never had any litigation against them. Caselabs came up with a receipt (faked) that someone who worked at TT bought one and slandered TT. It was for that where Thermaltake said they could cause issues. CL apologized to Tt over it, so in the world view showing fault. Otherwise they could have just went away with integrity, but chose not to. There were also rumors that a TT employee stole their ideas from a Lan, where does it end?

Unless you can find proof of litigation it's all a cop out rumor from CL.

Cl quote:
CaseLabs apologizes for accusing Mr. Robb and Thermaltake of “stealing” anything. The look of a computer case will always have some similar features – given its functional nature. CaseLabs retracts its accusations against Thermaltake for “copying other people’s existing concepts and calling them your own” and of producing “rip-off products. CaseLabs acknowledges that it does not own any patents on any of its case products. CaseLabs’ postings, which suggested that litigating to enforce patents would be prohibitively expensive, were misleading, because they implied that CaseLabs actually owned patents, which it does not. CaseLabs regrets this error.

So in other words even of they did start litigation they would have failed miserably.

 

[thesmokingman]

Basically CL fails at basic business and when the market heated up they could not adjust to market pressures.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Basically CL fails at basic business and when the market heated up they could not adjust to market pressures.

I wouldn't say they failed at basic business as they ran a company well before Caselabs was a thing, just there's not a lot of designs or patents involved in sheet aluminium. It was when they started folding said sheets things got complicated for them.

 

[sneekypeet]

I wouldn't say they failed at basic business as they ran a company well before Caselabs was a thing, just there's not a lot of designs or patents involved in sheet aluminium. It was when they started folding said sheets things got complicated for them.

How can you not, when the main company defaulted on an account and had to close everything?

"We are very sad to announce that CaseLabs and its parent company will be closing permanently. We have been forced into bankruptcy and liquidation. The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80% (partly due to associated shortages), which cut deeply into our margins. The default of a large account added greatly to the problem. It hit us at the worst possible time. We reached out for a possible deal that would allow us to continue on and persevere through these difficult times, but in the end, it didn't happen."

CaseLabs Withers Away After Losing PR Battle to Thermaltake

Premium aluminium case maker CaseLabs made a splash in 2015 when it accused Thermaltake of stealing many of its case designs to make "cheap Asian knock-offs." When faced with the prospect of a legal challenge by the much larger Thermaltake, CaseLabs this July withdrew its comments and publicly...

www.techpowerup.com

To me this entire situation is much like the IC Diamond issue. When the owners spend so much time slamming others and not paying attention to the business, shit unfolds quickly.

 

[claes]

I don’t get it — thermaltake sued caselabs over designs that are pretty plainly made by CaseLabs. Unoriginal, sure, but it’s pretty clear, IMO, that a giant company that rips off all sorts of designs sued a tiny company that didn’t bother to patent their designs before larger company did. Seems like an Asetek situation to me.

Not to say that tariffs and poor business decisions didn’t have anything to do with it (obviously should have patented the designs; American manufacturing is nice but super-expensive in a niche market where competitors can win on margins alone), but I don’t know how anyone can pretend that TT didn’t rip-off their designs (and many others).

But hey, steel is much less flimsy than that thin aluminum they used :shrug:

 

[sneekypeet]

thermaltake sued caselabs over designs

Where, when, where is that story?

 

[maxfly]

TT steals designs, that's what they do. I have no idea how they get away it. They started with heatsinks and fans(if im not mistaken) and steadily progressed from there. 99% of the gear they produce themselves is over priced and sub par. Occasionally their knockoffs hit home but their build quality is always consistently poor and short sighted. Personally i believe they only stay competitive because they are popular with the kiddies in Asia. You will rarely see their gear being given as a solution on English speaking forums. I do like my x71 despite having to mod it to fit my wcing needs.

They blatantly copied CL designs and beat them to the punch unfortunately. The x71 im using right now is an obvious sm8 knockoff(after CL closed it was the best i could do sadly and it was 2nd hand).
I don't judge CL poorly for going out of business. How can i? I don't know their story, only carefully written press releases. Otherwise id have to frown down upon the 100s of other small businesses(that also operated on shoestring budgets at that time) who were also forced to shut down thanks to the orangutans brilliant trade choices with China and other countries.
From what little i do know, they were a small company trying to make a quality product and make a buck doing it. So until i hear some insider info as to what and why...i wont judge them harshly. Sometimes shit really does happen.

As for them potentially coming back? I think its great. I may be able to finally get that giant wcing case that can easily accommodate all of my rads without needing to shoehorn in my pumps and res!

 

[claes]

Where, when, where is that story?

Sorry, “threatened with a lawsuit.” Why are you such a fan boi/hater lol? If you can’t read between the lines, we’ll, I don’t know what to tell you.

CASELABS APOLOGIZES FOR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THERMALTAKE - Legit Reviews

CaseLabs, a manufacturer of computer cases, has issued a letter of retraction and apology for its recent attacks upon competitor Thermaltake, Inc., another manufacturer of computer cases and other computer components.

www.legitreviews.com

“Hey guys we made sure CL deleted their FB posts and now want to make sure every tech news outlet rescinds their comments”

Thermaltake Accused Of Stealing - New Computex Products Went Too Far - Legit Reviews

www.legitreviews.com

 

[tabascosauz]

Let's just put this past debacle behind us. The designs have a new owner now, and if we take his word for it, he's committed to bringing back all of what made Caselabs Caselabs. Simultaneously, hopefully he's able to run a smarter business than CL's original owners - it's one thing to state the common knowledge that an obvious thief is obvious, but it's another to pick a fight one's destined to lose.

If the wait is roughly 1-1.5 years as claimed, I'm more than happy to tweak my hardware a bit, move back into the Cerberus, and wait for the cases. If he delivers on his promise, great. If he doesn't, it will be a disappointment, but nothing new coming from years of Geekhack group buys and delayed/postponed/cancelled indie SFF cases.

I appreciate that not everyone has the same opinion of Caselabs (and concerns should always be fairly addressed, not swept under the rug using reputation), but their reputation also doesn't come from nowhere - their support comes from some of the most die-hard, old-school watercoolers I've ever seen over the years. At the same time, we all know where Thermaltake stands on imitating others, but it's not like they aren't without their meritorious products here and there, and deep down I want to believe that GN Steve's expose had to have at least *some* effect on their business going forwards.

 

[sneekypeet]

Why are you such a fan boi/hater

Im just trying to keep the story straight without untrue accusations. No love or hate for either company.

Thermaltake sent a cease and desist with nothing about an apology needed, just stop what you are doing, and everything is fine. What happened was all from CL, the drama, the lies, all the BS. Those are the lines I am reading between, but I do have people who tell me the truth from the sources, not just what I read on the interwebs. However, if I have to see it your way, which is a fabrication, then I am not sure anything I type will get into your mind anyways.

 

[claes]

Feel free to fill me in but, as a lawyer, I know what a cease and desist means, and it’s implications, especially to a tiny company with low margins. Having followed the drama, I’m sympathetic to CL’s side of the story, but I might not know what you know. All I have is heresay, but I’m uncomfortable calling that “lies” and “BS,” given the two companies reputations.

 

[sneekypeet]

Feel free to fill me in but, as a lawyer, I know what a cease and desist means, and it’s implications, especially to a tiny company with low margins. Having followed the drama, I’m sympathetic to CL’s side of the story, but I might not know what you know. All I have is heresay, but I’m uncomfortable calling that “lies” and “BS,” given the two companies reputations.

Im just calling it what it is. If you would like to discuss we can open a PM chain and anyone can join.
All I see from the outside was an assumption backed by CL taking all the wrong actions that followed, which brought heat on them as it should with that tact.

 

[Punx223]

Feel free to fill me in but, as a lawyer, I know what a cease and desist means, and it’s implications, especially to a tiny company with low margins. Having followed the drama, I’m sympathetic to CL’s side of the story, but I might not know what you know. All I have is heresay, but I’m uncomfortable calling that “lies” and “BS,” given the two companies reputations.

As a lawyer, you also know that in many situations a cease and desist can easily be challenged if it was a BS bully tactic by a company.

As someone who was blamed directly by CL in their BS and lies, I can tell you that Sneeky is telling you the truth.

I have not and will not go into all of the details, but let's just say this... I met the owners of CL at PDXLAN, and even thanked them for supporting a great community. I saw their product and told them"You guys make some great chassis, but be ready as we have our own modular chassis coming soon"... Far different than the story from father and son owners of CL, in which case I had asked them if I could take pictures to send to my design team so we can make it (Who the hell with any sense would actually do that?!?)

My only saving grace in the situation was the abundance of people (modders and attendees who observed the kind exchange) who backed what actually took place when this all came about while I was in TW for Computex.

The major issue came down to a lot of media taking CL at their word and publishing stories saying Tt copied a bunch of products including the Swiftech apogee. Which I personally found quite humorous, as I am good friends with Gabe the founder/owner of Swiftech, and even helped set up comms with Tt and Swiftech to license and have the block produced by Swiftech.

Long story short, I worked with the Thermaltake design team to revolutionize their case models, and many of the effects can be seen to this day in various capacities.


Do I think the Core W and Core X series was similar to the CL offerings? yea, probably, but then again, before raising the pitchforks, you should probably ask Ben from Mountain Mods, his feelings when CL essentially took his idea and made it their own... or Antec about Fractal... the list can go on forever.

Anyways, at least now you know the basics of the shit show that was CL trying to save face as their bad business decisions for their main company sunk the lot. (TLR CL's parent company f****d up and leveraged themselves too far and when a major client defaulted they could not recover...hence CL dies with the main ALU/metal fab company)

Even if Tt had never made any of the core cases everyone claims was a ripoff of CL, the writing was on the wall, and when the client defaulted, they would have faltered.

Cheers,
Shannon (Formerly of Thermaltake)

 

[ThaiTaffy]

As a lawyer, you also know that in many situations a cease and desist can easily be challenged if it was a BS bully tactic by a company.

As someone who was blamed directly by CL in their BS and lies, I can tell you that Sneeky is telling you the truth.

I have not and will not go into all of the details, but let's just say this... I met the owners of CL at PDXLAN, and even thanked them for supporting a great community. I saw their product and told them"You guys make some great chassis, but be ready as we have our own modular chassis coming soon"... Far different than the story from father and son owners of CL, in which case I had asked them if I could take pictures to send to my design team so we can make it (Who the hell with any sense would actually do that?!?)

My only saving grace in the situation was the abundance of people (modders and attendees who observed the kind exchange) who backed what actually took place when this all came about while I was in TW for Computex.

The major issue came down to a lot of media taking CL at their word and publishing stories saying Tt copied a bunch of products including the Swiftech apogee. Which I personally found quite humorous, as I am good friends with Gabe the founder/owner of Swiftech, and even helped set up comms with Tt and Swiftech to license and have the block produced by Swiftech.

Long story short, I worked with the Thermaltake design team to revolutionize their case models, and many of the effects can be seen to this day in various capacities.


Do I think the Core W and Core X series was similar to the CL offerings? yea, probably, but then again, before raising the pitchforks, you should probably ask Ben from Mountain Mods, his feelings when CL essentially took his idea and made it their own... or Antec about Fractal... the list can go on forever.

Anyways, at least now you know the basics of the shit show that was CL trying to save face as their bad business decisions for their main company sunk the lot. (TLR CL's parent company f****d up and leveraged themselves too far and when a major client defaulted they could not recover...hence CL dies with the main ALU/metal fab company)

Even if Tt had never made any of the core cases everyone claims was a ripoff of CL, the writing was on the wall, and when the client defaulted, they would have faltered.

Cheers,
Shannon (Formerly of Thermaltake)

I loved CL's designs as I'm sure many did, so apart from opinions or hearsay the fact was Caselabs didn't own any design patents so if Tt copied CL design with the W100 was because the design was good and they could copy it with no legal ramifications.
If you want to go on to ethics that's fine but don't tell me any company wouldn't copy from another in their own field if it were possible.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

As a lawyer, you also know that in many situations a cease and desist can easily be challenged if it was a BS bully tactic by a company.

As someone who was blamed directly by CL in their BS and lies, I can tell you that Sneeky is telling you the truth.

I have not and will not go into all of the details, but let's just say this... I met the owners of CL at PDXLAN, and even thanked them for supporting a great community. I saw their product and told them"You guys make some great chassis, but be ready as we have our own modular chassis coming soon"... Far different than the story from father and son owners of CL, in which case I had asked them if I could take pictures to send to my design team so we can make it (Who the hell with any sense would actually do that?!?)

My only saving grace in the situation was the abundance of people (modders and attendees who observed the kind exchange) who backed what actually took place when this all came about while I was in TW for Computex.

The major issue came down to a lot of media taking CL at their word and publishing stories saying Tt copied a bunch of products including the Swiftech apogee. Which I personally found quite humorous, as I am good friends with Gabe the founder/owner of Swiftech, and even helped set up comms with Tt and Swiftech to license and have the block produced by Swiftech.

Long story short, I worked with the Thermaltake design team to revolutionize their case models, and many of the effects can be seen to this day in various capacities.


Do I think the Core W and Core X series was similar to the CL offerings? yea, probably, but then again, before raising the pitchforks, you should probably ask Ben from Mountain Mods, his feelings when CL essentially took his idea and made it their own... or Antec about Fractal... the list can go on forever.

Anyways, at least now you know the basics of the shit show that was CL trying to save face as their bad business decisions for their main company sunk the lot. (TLR CL's parent company f****d up and leveraged themselves too far and when a major client defaulted they could not recover...hence CL dies with the main ALU/metal fab company)

Even if Tt had never made any of the core cases everyone claims was a ripoff of CL, the writing was on the wall, and when the client defaulted, they would have faltered.

Cheers,
Shannon (Formerly of Thermaltake)

I like the core series cases, CL cases where imo faar too expensive for what they where. So basically Tt never copied? they didn't really need to. CL fans just wanted someone to blame/wave pitchforks at.

 

[phanbuey]

The major issue came down to a lot of media taking CL at their word and publishing stories saying Tt copied a bunch of products including the Swiftech apogee. Which I personally found quite humorous, as I am good friends with Gabe the founder/owner of Swiftech, and even helped set up comms with Tt and Swiftech to license and have the block produced by Swiftech.

Long story short, I worked with the Thermaltake design team to revolutionize their case models, and many of the effects can be seen to this day in various capacities.

To be fair they took them at their word because the cases were literal knock-offs.

Whether anyone took pictures or not is really not the issue. I don't have to physically take pictures of something to copy it -- I just have to see it and then tell people to copy it. Especially something simple like a case. And saying that "well other companies do it" doesn't make it right either - we do have IP law against this it's just difficult to enforce. TT didn't have a license on the CL design like it did with swiftech so that's not relevant either.

Anyone with eyes and a brain sees that TT copies people - if it's your business and they come to you for a license great... now you have no choice -- if you don't give it to them, they will just take your design and copy it. God forbid you're a small company doing something innovative at low volume and don't have a team of IP lawyers to protect you.

The "Any company wouldn't copy another" argument is basically "Well since CL had the right, but not the the practical capability to protect its IP, or that TT is outside of the full legal ramifications of US IP, it's ok that TT ripped off those designs, everyone does it".

 

[Deleted member 24505]

if they did copy, they made affordable versions of CL's stupidly priced cases. If someone can get essentially the same item cheaper they will. Also they charged a shit ton for their cases and defaulted on a bill, what where they doing with all the cash they made on the cases? living it up. If the cost of the aluminium, to make it, going from $45 to $87 in a case that cost well over $600 was enough to take down CL, that company wasn't doing so hot anyway.

 

[phanbuey]

if they did copy, they made affordable versions of CL's stupidly priced cases. If someone can get essentially the same item cheaper they will. Also they charged a shit ton for their cases and defaulted on a bill, what where they doing with all the cash they made on the cases? living it up. If the cost of the aluminium, to make it, going from $45 to $87 in a case that cost well over $600 was enough to take down CL, that company wasn't doing so hot anyway.

They did that because CL was a low volume producer that was based in the US -- they can't compete with TT on cost ever. But -- that design was theirs. The correct, ethical way would have been to pursue ath a license or for TT to spend the R&D money to make at least a somewhat unique design. I just hope CL comes back, is successful, and sues Thermalfake for lost license fees - so at least the engineers who came up with that case get something.

I'm not saying CL was doing hot or not... just saying that rewarding talentless stealing because you can underpay factory workers overseas is not something that's legal or ethical.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

They did that because CL was a low volume producer that was based in the US -- they can't compete with TT on cost ever. But -- that design was theirs. The correct, ethical way would have been to pursue ath a license or for TT to spend the R&D money to make at least a somewhat unique design. I just hope CL comes back, is successful, and sues Thermalfake for lost license fees - so at least the engineers who came up with that case get something.

I'm not saying CL was doing hot or not... just saying that rewarding talentless stealing because you can underpay factory workers overseas is not something that's legal or ethical.

Low volume because not a lot of people have 600-1200+ to spend on a case, however good it might be. i'm sure a few people have said Tt never copied, Where is the proof? do the case look exactly like CL cases? CL had no copyrights for some unknown reason, there has been lots of copies of product that are not protected. If you don't own the copyright, do you own the design?

 

[thesmokingman]

They did that because CL was a low volume producer that was based in the US -- they can't compete with TT on cost ever. But -- that design was theirs. The correct, ethical way would have been to pursue ath a license or for TT to spend the R&D money to make at least a somewhat unique design. I just hope CL comes back, is successful, and sues Thermalfake for lost license fees - so at least the engineers who came up with that case get something.

I'm not saying CL was doing hot or not... just saying that rewarding talentless stealing because you can underpay factory workers overseas is not something that's legal or ethical.

That's kind stupid, to pursue a license for a look that is not protected. This is like Apple patenting and trying to defend corners on their phones. And really any business 101 copycats are an eventual outcome. It's the second thing they ask entrepreneurs in Shark Tank, what are you going to do when the product is knocked off? And the truth is CL did not invent that look, others came before them. They should have scaled up to bring the price down to make it harder for them to be under cut but they didn't. They literally failed at business 101. Hell take Porsche for example who even used this eventuality in their marketing slogans, Porsche there is no substitute in the 80's. Hello Mazda RX7... hello Nissan GTR. The markets are littered with same same copies of everything.

 

[Punx223]

Now do Mountain Mods

 

[sneekypeet]

Now do Mountain Mods

Who borrowed frome Danger Den