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CD Projekt Stock Has Dropped Over 75% Since the Botched Release of Cyberpunk 2077

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I like Cyberpunk. I bought it in a sale well after release and noted very few bugs after they patched it. Pre-orders are not for me.
 
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Last game I pre-ordered No Man's Sky (I had fun with it, spent 60+ hours playing it so I got my money's worth) and before that was Advent Rising.
Advent Rising, wow firing up the wayback machine. Good memories
 
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I like Cyberpunk. I bought it in a sale well after release and noted very few bugs after they patched it. Pre-orders are not for me.
bought it close to day 1 release x) at my birthday in 2020, got it with a hefty reduction coupon ...

playing it for some time (unpatched patched ... nexus modded ) i have no issues with it, huge side story, good main story, environment and characters are good enough (the NPC mass AI is a bit underwhelming but ... not unexpected )

anyone with a sliver of realism, would know to never expect anything out of any companies promises (even worse if they are not literally voiced and left to the viewer imagination) and CDPR "claims" about how they wanted CP2077 to be were highly unrealistic and would definitely not happen no matter how much years the development would take ...
i was never one for buying in the hype and since CP2077 teaser release i never expected anything more than a game with good narratives (which CP2077 is, a bit like a The Witcher set in the future, and yes TW is highly similar, excellent narratives, main story, side story and dead fish brain npc mass ... ) lot of side content alongside the main story

CP2077 is a good game for me (not excellent, not goty, good.)

sad for CDPR tho that peoples "condemned" them over that (TW3 was no better at release) The Witcher series is one of the best game series i ever played (yes i loved it since TW1)the books are fine (the Netflix series is not ... oh well ... Netflix :rolleyes: ) and CP 2077 feels in the same ballpark.

recent patch did make it better tho
 
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eh, sad if this hits them too hard to leave them unable to patch / release new games

CP2077 been alright since the Patch 1.5 now, i kinda liked it tbh
 

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@FreedomEclipse
How can you install them whithout an internet connection or when/if you loose your account or Steam is shut down or blacklisted ?
GOG is like when games came on CD's or DVD's and you could install them anywhere regardless of your internet connection. But this is a DRM matter too, not just the game platform.

That wasn't the point of your question.

Games on Steam and similar platforms only work when you have an internet connection and the servers are up.

I was just saying some games work in steam's offline mode. Not commenting what happens if steam decides to give you the boot. If you are worried about that then all i can say is dont put yourself in a position where you risk your account being banned. If your account gets randomly banned for no reason then there is still possible to appeal it and even take steam to court over it if youre not happy with the answer that they gave you.

People have sued big game publishers, developers and gaming platforms for this very same reason before because these publishers/devs and platforms have to prove outright that you broke ToS and if you didnt break ToS then there is no reason for you to lose your account.

As for steam going down thats never going to happen. If steam gets banned in your country and you lose your account because of that then thats something you should take up with your government.


But some steam games will still work in offline mode and having steam installed and the network cable unplugged will force steam to start in offline mode with no internet connection and some games will work. some games wont. you wont have access to some SP games and obviously MP games but a fair few of the games should still work until your gov unblocks steam or someone comes up with a patch that hooks steam up to other servers in the same way that BF2Hub does with Battlefield 2.
 
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Your account could be stolen, Steam could be blacklisted, Steam could go tits up, it is not an impossibility. Then i loose all my investment. I don't know how i can have my account banned, since i paied for that stuff. It would be completly illegal IMHO. But that is a possibility too i guess.
And unless you live in the USA, if your gov or ISP decides to ban something, there is nothing you can do about it.

Yes, some games work offline but you can't install them from a backup without an internet connection. And they require periodic internet connection to validate.
That is why games on GOG are my go to choice. You can install them thru Galaxy 2.0 and/or you can download the installers. They are completly offline and require no periodic internet connection.

It would be sad for GOG to shut down, there are still plenty of old games that i would like to have on that platform someday. The NFS series is one, if EA allowed it. Underground 2 and Porsche would be awesome.
 
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Coming from the Witcher series, I had and still have no desire to play CP 2077 at all.

Hopefully they don't waste any more resources on this and go back to the Witcher series.

Cyberpunk 2077 was better than Witcher 3. Though of course it had technical problems at release. But the game is better. And Witcher 3 had plenty of annoying bugs too.

Witcher 2 was just a bad game. Some of the story was passable. But the gameplay, animations and whatnot were bad. Press mouse 1 to walk over a 1 foot drop. Witcher 3 was passable with lame sword combat, a poor upgrade/power system, interesting world and scale but a story that wasn't well written. It is certainly an okay game.

Even Cypberpunk 2077 never reaches the heights of something like Mass Effect. CD Projekt have yet to prove they can do exceptional writing or proper combat. They focus too much on dated concepts like picking up 50 of copy/pasted swords, in which some magically do slightly more damage, and selling them so you can buy another sword that is 3.444% better. Likewise for Cyberpunk but with guns.

Until they figure out how to make proper gameplay and intelligent stories they'll always be putting out okay to decent games and nothing truly great. But Cyberpunk was certainly a step up in both the gameplay department and they learned how to keep the main story more sensible in lengthen.
 
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64K

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eh, sad if this hits them too hard to leave them unable to patch / release new games

CP2077 been alright since the Patch 1.5 now, i kinda liked it tbh

It won't hit them that hard unless they own a lot of their own stock. Cyberpunk 2077 did sell around 18 million copies and CDPR has said that they only did 30,000 refunds so far so they have plenty of money for now. There's probably a lot more refunds now though. Those 30,000 refunds were based on the 8 million pre-orders of the game.

I think they have a good shot at regaining most of their former status if they do a good job on the next Witcher game but I also believe that they won't be able to return to their glory days. That is probably over permanently.
 
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<teaser trailer link>
I'd forgotten that the teaser trailer closed with this:

1658239681166.png


Oh the irony - Thanks for the chuckle, CDPR!
 

64K

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I'd forgotten that the teaser trailer closed with this:

View attachment 255257

Oh the irony - Thanks for the chuckle, CDPR!

It is pretty funny in retrospect. There was a long time where most gamers had respect for CDPR even when they were in the news for abusing their employees but I don't think they will ever be able to fully return to their prior status.
 
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The biggest reason CDPR failed with CP2077 is because they outsourced QA to a company that lied to them. This is good example of not doing your homework and not taking the time to do any in-house testing, thats where the arrogance steps in and starts that snowball of fail rolling.

I made a thread about that fiasco, I left it around here somewhere...:p
But CBP isnt even a case of bad QA, its just not finished. Bugfixing postponed to post release... I mean, even there the marketing is off: every outing from CDPR said 'When its ready' to be the release date. On top of that, they somehow suddenly also went for all consoles.

This is all attributable to terrible project management. Not QA... to enforce solid QA you need to know exactly what your expectations are. Now look at how the police works in the game at release. If you blame QA for that 'design', you're straight up lying to yourself as a company.

The same applies to the now reworked progression trees, the whole currency/gold sink/dupe/infinite money friendly crafting and vendor systems... and several other things outside the core story experience. As a game with such systems it was completely broken design wise. How do you even QA on that?!
 
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This is all attributable to terrible project management. Not QA...

I don't think so. They know their game, they knew it wasn't finished. ;)

Release 10 December 2020 (PS4, Stadia, Win, Xbox One), they where chasing christmas cash.
 
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But CBP isnt even a case of bad QA, its just not finished.
yes it is, read the article in the thread I linked. Its still managements fault for not being thorough.

Not QA... to enforce solid QA you need to know exactly what your expectations are.
The only necessary expectations are that QA testers find and report bugs. I did bug testing for 7 Days to Die and before that for several mods for the game. The fault still lies with management for expecting quality bug reporting.
 
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Hi,
If it doesn't come free with a gpu purchase at or below msrp I'll never get a new game.
Games are way overpriced imho and preordering is for kids.

From the little I've seen of this game I really had no interest in the theme.
 
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The same applies to the now reworked progression trees, the whole currency/gold sink/dupe/infinite money friendly crafting and vendor systems... and several other things outside the core story experience. As a game with such systems it was completely broken design wise. How do you even QA on that?!
IDK if you are referring to MMO games or Single Player. Things like that in MMOs are hard to find so usually dont show up until after launch, there just isnt enough time to devote to a single issue. CDPR, I'm guessing, just didnt get enough reports of bugs, or, if they did the programmers found them unconfirmed. Testing for 7D2D, we were required to make videos of every little thing, it was common to make 3-5 videos a day when a new version is started on. We were to concentrate on graphical related issues, floating assets, stutters, missing or misaligned textures, etc.

Hi,
If it doesn't come free with a gpu purchase at or below msrp I'll never get a new game.
Games are way overpriced imho and preordering is for kids.

From the little I've seen of this game I really had no interest in the theme.
I'm pretty much the same way, I'll wait for sales if I can hold off.
 
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IDK if you are referring to MMO games or Single Player. Things like that in MMOs are hard to find so usually dont show up until after launch, there just isnt enough time to devote to a single issue. CDPR, I'm guessing, just didnt get enough reports of bugs, or, if they did the programmers found them unconfirmed. Testing for 7D2D, we were required to make videos of every little thing, it was common to make 3-5 videos a day when a new version is started on. We were to concentrate on graphical related issues, floating assets, stutters, missing or misaligned textures, etc.
I refer only to Cyberpunk here. The point is, you catch this stuff in the design phase. Its not rocket science, like the economy problems: you put in X, you get out Y, outcome is positive = you have created a broken economy. Its really that simple. These aren't bugs! These are functional design problems. Its never required to do some odd sequence of activities in the game, its just there, if you use the systems, you will notice how they work.

To blame thát on QA is utter bullshit, like you say, this is not the type of thing you QA on. This is just shit game design. The same applies to the police AI and the skill trees. Some monkey did some random facerolls on a keyboard and somehow this wasn't considered a blocking issue. Again: that is not QA. That is project planning saying 'fuck it, we'll release this POS anyway'. You cannot 'not know' this is in the game. Impossible.

I don't think so. They know their game, they knew it wasn't finished. ;)

Release 10 December 2020 (PS4, Stadia, Win, Xbox One), they where chasing christmas cash.
You deny it and then you agree. If they know its not finished, the problem is not QA. Its release schedule = project planning. QA is project quality assurance. You can only judge the quality based on the requirements set within the project, otherwise it is arbitrary. 'When' you release has no relation whatsoever with QA. Its simply a choice of go or no go, and like you say, they knew their game, they knew in what state it would release.
 
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You deny it and then you agree. If they know its not finished, the problem is not QA. Its release schedule = project planning. QA is project quality assurance. You can only judge the quality based on the requirements set within the project, otherwise it is arbitrary. 'When' you release has no relation whatsoever with QA. Its simply a choice of go or no go, and like you say, they knew their game, they knew in what state it would release.

You're right, lol. :) Sorry, I misread.
 
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I refer only to Cyberpunk here. The point is, you catch this stuff in the design phase. Its not rocket science, like the economy problems: you put in X, you get out Y, outcome is positive = you have created a broken economy. Its really that simple. These aren't bugs! These are functional design problems. Its never required to do some odd sequence of activities in the game, its just there, if you use the systems, you will notice how they work.

To blame thát on QA is utter bullshit, like you say, this is not the type of thing you QA on. This is just shit game design. The same applies to the police AI and the skill trees. Some monkey did some random facerolls on a keyboard and somehow this wasn't considered a blocking issue. Again: that is not QA. That is project planning saying 'fuck it, we'll release this POS anyway'. You cannot 'not know' this is in the game. Impossible.
A bug, in game design, is anything that that deviates from the planned deisgn and intended results. Something as simple as a typo is a bug, even during the coding phase typos are not 100% caught in time for the next phase.

Its not the design phase thats the problem, its the coding phase. You can have everything flow charted out thinking design is flawless, but it never is, and is always subject to re-writes. IDK what you know about gaming studios, but ever-so-carefully planned design gets changed all the time, from the initial design phase to release. Unplanned changes are not always obvious to those assigned to keep the design continuity, which is why players see as design flaws, sure it is, but more often than not, those design flaws are always expected to be reported during play-testing (QA). Coding may not seem like rocket science to you, but you'd be surprised how truly difficult it can be, its not simple as you think (if anyone has ever modded for a game, its not even close).

QA should happen in every phase of production, anything and everything that makes it into the game is a matter of QA, including design problems, like what you pointed out, these are commonly corrected during the QA IF, I repeat, IF reported. CDPR may have been over confident in its ability to catch and fix bugs during early phases prior to play testing, and we can agree CDPR management failed in that effort.

If the there is an obscene amount of bugs to fix, studios do prioritize what gets fixed before launch and what gets patched after, its a poor choice to delay fixes IMO.

There are some members on TPU that do game design that can confirm all this, with some minor differences from studio to studio.
 
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A bug, in game design, is anything that that deviates from the planned deisgn and intended results. Something as simple as a typo is a bug, even during the coding phase typos are not 100% caught in time for the next phase.

Its not the design phase thats the problem, its the coding phase. You can have everything flow charted out thinking design is flawless, but it never is, and is always subject to re-writes. IDK what you know about gaming studios, but ever-so-carefully planned design gets changed all the time, from the initial design phase to release. Unplanned changes are not always obvious to those assigned to keep the design continuity, which is why players see as design flaws, sure it is, but more often than not, those design flaws are always expected to be reported during play-testing (QA). Coding may not seem like rocket science to you, but you'd be surprised how truly difficult it can be, its not simple as you think (if anyone has ever modded for a game, its not even close).

QA should happen in every phase of production, anything and everything that makes it into the game is a matter of QA, including design problems, like what you pointed out, these are commonly corrected during the QA IF, I repeat, IF reported. CDPR may have been over confident in its ability to catch and fix bugs during early phases prior to play testing, and we can agree CDPR management failed in that effort.

If the there is an obscene amount of bugs to fix, studios do prioritize what gets fixed before launch and what gets patched after, its a poor choice to delay fixes IMO.

There are some members on TPU that do game design that can confirm all this, with some minor differences from studio to studio.
Yes, and I reiterate, the problems you see in Cyberpunk on release date are in large part not coding problems, not bugs, but functional design oversights (or intentional it really doesn't matter) and thát is what breaks the better part of the game. It even did in many patches post release. The PC version of the game ON RELEASE was not full of bugs, it ran from start to end just fine, you could finish the story and I didn't get any crashes. Sure, some assets clipped, ok. But I am not talking about those bugs at all. As a tester, what you do is what you describe well: you test requirements and the intent of a technical design, you test whether expectations are met. So the design apparently said you could sell things to get rich from nothing, or at least was approved on that.

I write functional/technical designs and then implement them... the way vendors in the game work, are stocked, the values given to crafting materials and the return of item/cash you get from crafting has absolutely nothing to do with bugs or coding errors. Its just shit design, or intentional but then even so still completely out of place. Its clearly something they did as an afterthought - and thát is the core of the criticism on Cyberpunk even today: the systems in the game are not fleshed out, unbalanced, and feel tacked on late in the dev process. What started as a game based on the narrative and highly focused on (inter-)personal stuff, became an open world city with lots of things to do, during the dev process. Its very easy to deduct that playing the game as it shows in everything, even parts of the city that are radically below-par compared to other eye catching bits.

We also know this is true, because they did fix for example skill trees later by a complete overhaul, acknowledging that the original design was flawed.

Also, we saw that some post release patches increased the number of bad assets in the game, clipping errors got worse before they got better. Still blaming QA prior to release now?! It doesn't make sense at all. Its just someone playing the blame game for what is fundamentally a horribly managed project.
 
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Still blaming QA prior to release now?!
Yes I am and only because I've been part of the process, all of what you said should have been addressed during play-testing, ala QA. If management ignores QA reports thats on them, which seems obvious this far after launch.

Its just someone playing the blame game for what is fundamentally a horribly managed project.
Fully agree with this.
 
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Yes I am, all of what you said should have been addressed during play-testing, ala QA. If management ignores QA reports thats on them, which seems obvious this far after launch.
The reality is we don't know what the requirements were, but the nature of the problems I addressed provides strong evidence for the fact that requirements were unclear, undocumented, or documented such that the intended design was exactly what we got in the game after all. You can easily see when you write a design that if you price an item that is craftable at 250, and the mats to make one are cheaper, you have broken the game's economy. If you write it like that, you QA it like that. And that's probably what happened. 'This is fine'.

I'll reiterate the discussions we've seen in the cyberpunk topic on this forum. There was a lot of fuss about whether or not the "GTA part of the game" was there for any purpose or any greater story element or just as a glorified 'move from quest to quest' backdrop. That touches on the same discussion we have here. You say QA said something about all of this and management ignored it, I say that in the well known dynamic of continuous crunch time and deadline pressure, fundamental problems in the game that should be considered blocking issues, were ignored or rewritten to get a pass. And the latter reality echoes in many elements of the game. Graphically, the city's design, the limited AI, etc.

On one thing we do agree, I think... that's the conclusion this is all about crap project management.
 
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Not surprised, I read the investor meeting logs after the refunds saga, and the investors were p*****.
 

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all I can say is haha, they got what they deserve
Knee-jerk reactions like this is why gaming these days is all about EA or Ubi crap. One wrong step as an independent publisher (after years of delivering quality titles*) and you're done.

*Witcher games were traditionally glitchy on release, but CDPR worked on and gave us Enhanced Editions for free.
 
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One wrong step as an independent publisher (after years of delivering quality titles*) and you're done.
Publishers or Games studios?
 

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