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Chiphell: All Current RDNA2 Rumors are BS

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it looks like directml is hardware agnostic
whatever it does for rdna2 it'll do for rdna1,turing and even older

I updated my post with this:


It was an impressive showing for a game that hasn't even begun to access the next generation features of the new GPU. Right now, it's difficult to accurately quantify the kind of improvement to visual quality and performance we'll see over time, because while there are obvious parallels to current-gen machines, the mixture of new hardware and new APIs allows for very different workloads to run on the GPU. Machine learning is a feature we've discussed in the past, most notably with Nvidia's Turing architecture and the firm's DLSS AI upscaling. The RDNA 2 architecture used in Series X does not have tensor core equivalents, but Microsoft and AMD have come up with a novel, efficient solution based on the standard shader cores. With over 12 teraflops of FP32 compute, RDNA 2 also allows for double that with FP16 (yes, rapid-packed math is back). However, machine learning workloads often use much lower precision than that, so the RDNA 2 shaders were adapted still further.

"We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms," says Andrew Goossen. "So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning."
Other forward-looking features also make the cut. Again, similar to Nvidia's existing Turing architecture, mesh shaders are incorporated into RDNA 2, allowing for a potentially explosive improvement in geometric detail.

"As GPUs have gotten wider and computing performance has increased, geometry processing has become more and more bound on the fixed function vertex issue triangle setup and tessellation blocks of the GPU," reveals Goossen. "Mesh shading allows developers to completely bypass those fixed function bottlenecks by providing an optional alternative to the existing parts of the GPU pipeline. In addition to performance, mesh shading offers developers flexibility and memory savings. Mesh shading will allow game developers to increase detail in the shapes and animations of objects and render more complex scenes with no sacrifice to frame-rate."

There is more. Much more. For example, the Series X GPU allows for work to be shared between shaders without involvement from the CPU, saving a large amount of work for the Zen 2 cores, with data remaining on the GPU. However, the big innovation is clearly the addition of hardware accelerated ray tracing. This is hugely exciting and at Digital Foundry, we've been tracking the evolution of this new technology via the DXR and Vulkan-powered games we've seen running on Nvidia's RTX cards and the console implementation of RT is more ambitious than we believed possible.
 
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16GB VRAM.

HBM2 on the table again?
gddr6 I think
but who knows
this thing is gonna be power hungry as hell

"We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms," says Andrew Goossen. "So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning."
tu102 does 226/455 tops
not saying xsx is a direct competitor,but a new 3070/S will certainly be around current 2080Ti performance.
it may use fewer SM's,but 49tops is not even 0.25x
 
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ARF

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amd has a 250mm2 card but the power budget is almost spent for navi 10 7nm duv

Navi 10 is heavily overclocked out of the box. AMD didn't know how to release it properly.

Did a few test runs today with my 5700XT reference design in Shadow of the tomb raider with different voltagesettings etc. Tested with TAA, dx12 and highest in 1080p. Custom fancurve. Temps are maxtemps.

Stock 2050/1200mv:
110fps, 185W max, 160W avg, rpm 2950, gputemp 74C, junction 93C
1900MHz/1000mv:
110fps, 149W max, 130W avg, rpm 2700, gputemp 70C, junction 81C.
1800/950mv:
108fps, 133W max, 115W avg, rpm 2300, gputemp 66C, junction 74C.
1750/910mv:
106fps, 134W max, 110W avg, rpm 2300, gputemp 66C, junction 74C.
1700/890mv:
104fps, 126W max, 105W avg, rpm 2200, gputemp 65C, junction 73C.

Conclusion:
Underclock to 1900 and UV to 1000mv gives no performanceloss, but temps are better and slightly less noise.

Underclock to 1800 only gives 3% performanceloss, but reduces powerusage by 10-15% and temps quite a bit.
Underclocking/undervolting further yields 5% lower power pr 2% performance and is not worth it in my opinion.
Seems like 1800/950mv is the sweetspot 8n my card :)
 
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Navi 10 is heavily overclocked out of the box. AMD didn't know how to release it properly.


every silicon can be undervolted.
and amd didn't know how to release it properly,give me a break.shame you didn't make the rtg executive team
 

ARF

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5. AMD will be sending PCB design resources to AIB in the next 2 weeks. Don't expect non-reference RDNA2 at launch

This. Can't wait to see some preliminary benchmarks.
 
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Navi 10 is heavily overclocked out of the box. AMD didn't know how to release it properly.



Except when you make a much wider GPU that you clock lower, the net result isn't that you gained the entire percentage of which you made it wider. You gain a fraction of it, and there is also overhead as shader counts increase. You're not wrong about Navi 10 because the non XT shows us this very well, but AMD knew full well that if they released it with conservative power they might have had a very efficient GPU, but also one that was never going to compete. They still lack featureset that Nvidia has, and Nvidia has the performance alongside it too, and the power budget will still be pretty close nonetheless - as in: it won't allow you to put Navi in a different form factor than a similar performing Turing card. Realistically, Navi 10 is just Vega all over again, but on a better node and some changes under the hood. The main difference lands on AMD's side, they can simply make Navi 10 for a lot less money.

Navi10 is exactly where it is as with all other AMD GPU releases: late to market, relegated to competition on price. Its just that simple. Will RDNA2 be different? So far, this leak says AMD will once again follow the music. And remember, they already ARE following and not leading when it comes to RT. Thát is how difficult it is to be leading in this industry, especially when you take a full generation's holiday from 'being part of high end'. For CPU that decision took them a decade to recover from. Do the math ;)
 
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Except when you make a much wider GPU that you clock lower, the net result isn't that you gained the entire percentage of which you made it wider. You gain a fraction of it, and there is also overhead as shader counts increase. You're not wrong about Navi 10 because the non XT shows us this very well, but AMD knew full well that if they released it with conservative power they might have had a very efficient GPU, but also one that was never going to compete. They still lack featureset that Nvidia has, and Nvidia has the performance alongside it too, and the power budget will still be pretty close nonetheless - as in: it won't allow you to put Navi in a different form factor than a similar performing Turing card. Realistically, Navi 10 is just Vega all over again, but on a better node and some changes under the hood. The main difference lands on AMD's side, they can simply make Navi 10 for a lot less money.

Navi10 is exactly where it is as with all other AMD GPU releases: late to market, relegated to competition on price. Its just that simple. Will RDNA2 be different? So far, this leak says AMD will once again follow the music. And remember, they already ARE following and not leading when it comes to RT. Thát is how difficult it is to be leading in this industry, especially when you take a full generation's holiday from 'being part of high end'. For CPU that decision took them a decade to recover from. Do the math ;)
a decade of intel's not giving a shit and eventually running into fabrication disaster

amd knew exactly what they were doing.those couple of percent they got from overclocking the 5700xt out of the box was the entire selling point over 2060 Super.
 
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a decade of intel's not giving a shit and eventually running into fabrication disaster

amd knew exactly what they were doing.those couple of percent they got from overclocking the 5700xt out of the box was the entire selling point over 2060 Super.
You could say the same thing about nvidia with the original 2060, they milked all they could from that knowing they could insert another sku at every price and performance bracket for the same cost of the original non super cards when amd released Navi, thing is, the 5700 xt is still a better price price/performance compared to 2060S and 2070
 
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And what wjm47196 says is true......? :wtf:
 
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So do we think its going to compete with the Titan Ampere or get smoked again like they usually do? I suspect a large amount of ROPs in excess of 128.
 
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theres a old saying " never count your chicks before thay have hatched" the % of leaks that are true is very low indeed. and some that turn out true are mainly very good guess work.
 
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3080 will end up priced close to $1000 and the 3080Ti/3090 close to $1500 with a special version having double the VRAM and maybe a BIOS unlocked for OC for $2000. My 5c.
Wrong thread.
 
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