• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Confronting NVIDIA's DLSS: AMD Confirms FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) to Launch in 2021

Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
6,602 (4.23/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx L240 V2
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX - 3333 Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) OEM Dell GTX 1080 with Kraken G12 + Water 3.0 Performer C
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 4K Samsung TV
Case Deepcool Matrexx 70
Power Supply GPS-750C
They can do something equivalent to DLSS Performance (4x upscaling, think 1080p > 2160p) or Ultra Performance mode (9x upscaling, 720p > 2160p) and nobody will bat an eye to image quality impact

But why ? The vast majority of them already don't care, Xbox Series S is apparently a pretty big success and pretty much all games run at 1080p on it as far as I know, that's last gen IQ. So clearly, those people already don't bat an eye to image quality.

I guess what I am saying is that this is a significant technological struggle for an audience that doesn't care.

Let’s see how they pull this off without dedicated tensor flow hardware

Same way Nvidia did, Control used a version of DLSS that ran exclusively on shaders. So there was never a particular need for dedicated hardware apparently.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
3,245 (0.73/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television)
Case antec 600
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
Open source is really not the way to go imho. AMD needs to make FSR as game engine plugin as easy to implement as it gets or developers just won't bother adding it into their game codes because it's just too much work for something that affects less than 10% of PC gamers (RDNA GPU owners).

ermmm idk how your mind works here, open source means everyone can use it....soooo they are not stuck to that 10%....

also dont forget that the consoles are RDNA2 so devs will most def work to make the tech work for those and therebye easily can port that over to the PC version
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,952 (1.92/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) Geforce RTX 3070 FE
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
I guess what I am saying is that this is a significant technological struggle for an audience that doesn't care.
While they do not care about image quality, resolution is still a marketable factor. With PS5 and XSX, 60Hz has already turned out to be an eye-opening experience for many console players so high refresh rate/FPS - which in console context includes 60Hz - is also a marketable factor.
Agreed. Besides, I'm still hoping for acceptable raytracing performance without any nvidia or AMD-infused gimmicks.
I remember the time when you had to choose graphics cards based on the games you wanted to play, as no card supported every game with proprietary APIs (Glide, S3D, etc.). I don't want this to happen again.
Both DX12 DXR and Vulkan RT are standard APIs.
We'll have to wait and see how the situation with DLSS and FSR develops.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
709 (6.17/day)
Location
Austria
System Name Needs no upgrading
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B550-F
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S Chromax Black | Noctua NT-H2 10g
Memory 4x 8 GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600 16-16-16-36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio
Storage 1x Samsung 980 PRO 500 GB / 1x SanDisk X400 512 GB / 2x Crucial MX500 1 TB
Display(s) 1440p 144Hz ASUS TUF VG27AQ / 1080p 72Hz LG 22MP68VQ-P
Case be quiet! Pure Base 500DX Black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX-750 80+ Platinum Fully Modular
Mouse ASUS ROG Chakram
Keyboard ASUS ROG Strix Flare Cherry MX Red RGB
Software Windows 10 Pro 20H2
Skeptical, but fingers crossed.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
567 (0.69/day)
Location
United Kingdom
System Name Nebulon-B
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (WiFi)
Cooling Corsair H100i Platinum RGB
Memory 2x 16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 3200 MHz CL16 DDR4
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix Radeon RX 5700 XT
Storage 1 TB Corsair MP600 Core, 1 TB Corsair MP400, 512 GB ADATA SU900
Display(s) Samsung C24F396
Case AeroCool Aero One Mini Eclipse
Audio Device(s) Genius SP-HF160 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum 550W
Mouse Cherry MW 8
Keyboard MagicForce 68
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Time Spy: ~10,000 points
While they do not care about image quality, resolution is still a marketable factor. With PS5 and XSX, 60Hz has already turned out to be an eye-opening experience for many console players so high refresh rate/FPS - which in console context includes 60Hz - is also a marketable factor.

Both DX12 DXR and Vulkan RT are standard APIs.
We'll have to wait and see how the situation with DLSS and FSR develops.
Exactly. As for me, I want standardised APIs, no manufacturer-specific marketing BS.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
11,682 (4.93/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel i5-9600KF
Motherboard NZXT N7 Z370 Black
Cooling Cooler Master 240 RGB AIO / Stock
Memory Thermaltake Toughram 16GB 4400MHz DDR4 or Gigabyte 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 or Adata 8GB 2133Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) Asus Dual 1060 6GB
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
Let’s see how they pull this off without dedicated tensor flow hardware
That's like saying they can't do Vsync without a big expensive piece of extra hardware built in like the Gsync module.

Here's a link for those wanting to read from the source.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,952 (1.92/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) Geforce RTX 3070 FE
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
Let’s see how they pull this off without dedicated tensor flow hardware
That's like saying they can't do Vsync without a big expensive piece of extra hardware built in like the Gsync module.
Gets off topic but they couldn't. When Freesync became a thing (or rather DP Adaptive Sync it relies on), this got included in display scalers that is the piece of extra hardware (less expensive because mass production). Getting all that to the same level as GSync took literally years.

People have been trying to debug or analyze GPU usage when DLSS is used since the beginning. It is not just running on shaders. Tensor cores are used, whether they are doing matrix/ML stuff or FP16 shaders that they are reportedly also used for, is unknown.

Exactly. As for me, I want standardised APIs, no manufacturer-specific marketing BS.
Not sure if DLSS or FCR is at the same level as API.
Anyway, marketing BS goes with it regardless of whether the solution is standard or not. See, it is called FCR.

What AMD has been struggling with for a while is to come up with new usable technology or effect and get it in widespread enough adoption first. When you are second and somebody is already offering and marketing something similar, proprietary or not, it is an uphill battle. Mantle/DX12/Vulkan was probably the last limited success in that regard. Also Async shaders but the actual gain/effect from that is pretty limited - I think VRS is a good comparison to that with a similar result. Vega brought cool stuff but it largely remained unfinished, perhaps with the exception of RPM which has limited adoption even with bipartisan support by now.

SAM might be an interesting example - remember that it was supposed to be limited to Ryzen 5000 series on 500-series boards and Radeon 6000 series? After Intel made efforts to enable this on some of their platforms and Nvidia announced it will enable something similar this is set to become a very general thing.
 
Last edited:

Raevenlord

News Editor
Staff member
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,492 (2.04/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1700
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon
Cooling Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120
Memory 16 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3200 (2x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) TPU's Awesome MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X
Storage Boot: Crucial MX100 128GB; Gaming: Crucial MX 300 525GB; Storage: Samsung 1TB HDD, Toshiba 2TB HDD
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case NOX Hummer MC Black
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
6,200 (2.61/day)
Location
USA
System Name Paladius Tacet
Processor Ryzen 5600x
Motherboard MSI X570 Tomahawk
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34 DUO (custom aggressive fan curve)
Memory G.Skill 2x16 3600 14-14-14-34 Dual Rank
Video Card(s) Navi 6800 + Rage Mode + OC
Display(s) Acer Nitro XF243Y 23.8" 0.5ms IPS 165hz 1080p
Case Corsair 110Q Silent + NZXT Aer-P exhaust fan
Power Supply EVGA 700w Gold
Mouse Razer Naga X (2021 Edition)
Meh, since the average consoles player is sitting in front of a TV from 2 meters away this couldn't be any less important.

Ironically though, it is true that AMD has the sort of leverage to make this more widespread through Sony and MS than Nvidia could ever do with their 978969283% market share or whatever they have right now.

It is ironic.

I disagree, I think higher refresh is welcome on all platforms, but time will tell.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
284 (0.76/day)
ermmm idk how your mind works here, open source means everyone can use it....soooo they are not stuck to that 10%....
It's not guaranteed that PC game will support some kind of AI super sampling just because it's ported from the SP5/XboX X to PC.

Open source usually means a source code that is made freely available for possible modification and redistribution. Nothing about how easily or hard is it is to add it to game core engine while game engine plugin usually means you only have to enable it inside the game engine. Good luck implementing DirectML API or some other type of accelerating machine learning if all rendered things on screen don't have motion vectors tied to them at all distances... You have to fix that first (A LOT OF WORK), while plugin inside base game engine "just works" (well not exactly, but we're talking about losing weeks not months to make it work right), because it's optimized for it and vice versa. We need super simple plugin solutions for all main game engines, be it from Microsoft, Intel, Nvidia or AMD in order to get them into the PC games.
 
Last edited:

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
8,974 (4.16/day)
Processor Intel i5-6600k (AMD Ryzen5 3600 in a box, waiting for a mobo)
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Extreme7+
Cooling Arctic Cooling Freezer i11
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V (@3200)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 3TB Seagate
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Being open in this case is a red herring.

The actual APIs can be as open as possible, but there's still a learning part involved in the training phase. In a completely open solution who performs the training? Who acts as a repository for the training results?

Sure, chances are we'll end up with an open API after all (even DXR was open from the beginning, even if Nvidia tacked on RTX). I'm just saying, the meat of these algorithms will remain in AMD's and Nvidia's hands.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
2,340 (2.98/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x8 GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 3200 CL16 @ 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 6GB SSC
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) Acer XB273GP
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse SteelSeries Rival 300
Keyboard MK Typist (Kailh Box White)
Did I mention console somewhere? pretty sure I didn't since I don't care about consoles.
Anyways does Switch counts as console? it's getting DLSS there :D
Does 77% marketshare = 77% RTX capable cards?

And don't even get me started on bs 4K DLSS enabled Switch rumors.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
204 (0.05/day)
Long term how valuable are these up-scaling technologies? In a couple of generations hardware will be able to do high resolutions for games natively, is it worth the effort to invest in these band-aids?
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
3,245 (0.73/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television)
Case antec 600
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
Long term how valuable are these up-scaling technologies? In a couple of generations hardware will be able to do high resolutions for games natively, is it worth the effort to invest in these band-aids?
Well it's a never ending race right? By the time current games run full native res at a high framerate newer games will be out that will be much more taxing
 
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
159 (0.11/day)
Processor i7-4790k 4.6Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z97 Sniper.G1
Cooling Thermalright HR-02
Memory G.Skill 2400Mhz @ C10
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX 580 Aorus
Storage Seagate Barracuda 2TB
Display(s) AOC G2260VWQ6
Audio Device(s) SB Recon 3Di
Power Supply Super Flower Golden Green HX 550w
Mouse Logitech G403
Keyboard Office Keyboard
Software W10 build 17763
I think it is obvious that they can't create something like DLSS 2.0 that can run on their GPUs and offer good quality AND performance. They said, they will introduce it in December 2020 with 6900XT and now they only hope to have it ready before year's end.

I think they are in a process of creating an airplane without wings and the problem is that they haven't yet thought the concept of a helicopter.
most pedantic comment ive read in a while
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
1,037 (0.60/day)
Processor Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Le Grand Macho
Memory 32GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 Ti
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer 144Hz 1440p IPS 27"
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) JDS labs The Element II, Dan Clark Audio Aeon II
Power Supply EVGA 850w P2
Mouse G305
Keyboard iGK64 w/ 30n optical switches
Only AMD sponsored PC titles will get this FSR tech.

That's easily disprovable given that many non-AMD sponsored titles include AMD features.

Cyberpunk 2077 is an Nvidia sponsored title and it includes CAS with dynamic and static resolution from the FidelityFX suite.

Let’s see how they pull this off without dedicated tensor flow hardware

RDNA2 does support the acceleration of AI anyways, they just don't need separate hardware to do it.
 

Mad_foxx1983

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
19 (0.02/day)
I think FX Super resolution will use different techniques for the Cards vs Consoles but from time they arrive at similar results.
 
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
2,653 (1.49/day)
Location
Currently Norway
System Name Bro2
Processor Ryzen 2700X
Motherboard MSI X470 Gaming Carbon
Cooling Corsair h115i pro rgb
Memory 32GB G.Skill Flare X 3200 CL14 @ 2933Mhz CL14
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6900 XT Red Devil
Storage M.2 Samsung Evo 970 250MB/ Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Display(s) LG 27UD69 UHD / LG 27GN950
Case Fractal Design G
Audio Device(s) realtec 5.1
Power Supply Corsair AXi 760W / Seasonic 750W GOLD
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech slim
Software Windows 10 64 bit
I think FX Super resolution will use different techniques for the Cards vs Consoles but from time they arrive at similar results.
Why would AMD use different technique? Console system vs PC system are not that far off. If anything, AMD is trying to make this simple and working across all the platforms using AMD product so different techniques for consols vs graphics cards makes no sense.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
524 (0.66/day)
If this works on both consoles and PC......................big win for everyone.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
673 (1.74/day)
Well according to this article, the lead Engineer said it took them a weekend to intergrate DLSS into System Shock, granted only when the game use Unreal Engine 4 (which is still a big chunk of the gaming industry).

AMD marketshare in the PC is so small now that it just doesn't incentivize developers to utilize their tech vs DLSS (well unless AMD paid them to)

:roll:
It took them a weekend to integrate DLSS into the game yes, but you need to consider that the plugin only works with a certain version of the Unreal Engine 4 if I am not mistaken. And you are also forgetting the fact that it took them a long time since DLSS 2.0 was released before it was available as a plugin for ease of integration, which implies that it is not a cheap first time investment. When games starts moving to a newer Unreal Engine, same amount of effort to integrate DLSS with the game engine is there again.

You are also missing the point that AMD pretty much cornered the console market (less Nintendo) at this point. A good upscale algo that is easy to implement is great for game makers to utilize for consoles, because instead of trying very hard to squeeze performance out by means of optimizing the codes, they can reinvest that time and utilize upscaling to gain performance. For example, if you look at Cyberpunk on older hardware, if you can upscale the game from 720p to 1080p with no severe degrade in quality, it will make the game from unplayable to playable. Not sure if this works on older AMD hardware, but just quoting an example.

Why would AMD use different technique? Console system vs PC system are not that far off. If anything, AMD is trying to make this simple and working across all the platforms using AMD product so different techniques for consols vs graphics cards makes no sense.
Technique should be the same, but tweaks required depending on the OS. XBox is pretty much running Windows Lite, so should not have a lot of rework. But if we look at PS5, then I suspect there should be quite a fair bit of rework in terms of coding. I don't think they will want to leave Sony out in the cold.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
1,277 (0.79/day)
System Name The de-ploughminator
Processor I7 9900K @ 5.1Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 5
Cooling Custom Watercooling
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Neo 3600mhz 15-15-15-30
Video Card(s) RTX 3090 + Bitspower WB
Storage Plextor 512GB nvme SSD
Display(s) LG OLED CX48"
Case Lian Li 011D Dynamic
Audio Device(s) Creative AE-5
Power Supply Corsair RM1000
Mouse Razor Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Corsair K75
Software Win10
It took them a weekend to integrate DLSS into the game yes, but you need to consider that the plugin only works with a certain version of the Unreal Engine 4 if I am not mistaken. And you are also forgetting the fact that it took them a long time since DLSS 2.0 was released before it was available as a plugin for ease of integration, which implies that it is not a cheap first time investment. When games starts moving to a newer Unreal Engine, same amount of effort to integrate DLSS with the game engine is there again.

You are also missing the point that AMD pretty much cornered the console market (less Nintendo) at this point. A good upscale algo that is easy to implement is great for game makers to utilize for consoles, because instead of trying very hard to squeeze performance out by means of optimizing the codes, they can reinvest that time and utilize upscaling to gain performance. For example, if you look at Cyberpunk on older hardware, if you can upscale the game from 720p to 1080p with no severe degrade in quality, it will make the game from unplayable to playable. Not sure if this works on older AMD hardware, but just quoting an example.

First DLSS 2.0 is becoming industry standard now after 3 years and FSR still hasn't been born yet, most game developers out there still have no idea what FSR is (except the ones AMD is working closely with to integrate FSR). New PC games with FSR are most certainly AMD sponsored titles.

Secondly although PS5 and XBSX use semi custom RDNA2 SOC, there are some design differences between PS5, XBSX, RX5000 and RX6000 regarding low-precision operations that are used for AI image enhancing. Redgamingtech provide some information here

With XBSX SOC share the most common with RX6000 GPU, yeah sure maybe XB ported games will include FSR that is optimized only for RX6000 GPU. PS ported games however would probably go DLSS, as many of them already did such as Death Stranding, Monster Hunter World, FF XV, Nioh 2, etc....For independent PC developers, I don't see any incentive for them to ignore DLSS which has a much bigger user base and go for FSR which has almost non-existant user base atm.

Cyberpunk 2077? I wouldn't play that game without at least an RTX2060, which trashes the 1080Ti when using DLSS (and DLSS looks miles ahead of the FidelityFX option)
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
590 (2.58/day)
So
Cyberpunk 2077? I wouldn't play that game without at least an RTX2060, which trashes the 1080Ti when using DLSS (and DLSS looks miles ahead of the FidelityFX option)
you refuse to play a game at lower then ultra graphics
this game can run on a 1060 if you TURN THE GRAPHICS DOWN
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
1,277 (0.79/day)
System Name The de-ploughminator
Processor I7 9900K @ 5.1Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 5
Cooling Custom Watercooling
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Neo 3600mhz 15-15-15-30
Video Card(s) RTX 3090 + Bitspower WB
Storage Plextor 512GB nvme SSD
Display(s) LG OLED CX48"
Case Lian Li 011D Dynamic
Audio Device(s) Creative AE-5
Power Supply Corsair RM1000
Mouse Razor Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Corsair K75
Software Win10
So

you refuse to play a game at lower then ultra graphics
this game can run on a 1060 if you TURN THE GRAPHICS DOWN

uh...40fps with 1080p Low settings? nah that's not playable, kind of a waste of money if you have a 1060 and then buy AAA games at full price. I'm sure almost all PS4/XBX owners would agree with me there :D
 
Top