Confused about Samsung SSD types...

johnspack · Jul 6, 2019

What did I just buy? It says mlc but isn't it really tlc?

SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 500GB SATA III Internal SSD - Newegg.com

Buy SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 500GB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-76E500B/AM with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.ca

I haven't really kept up on ssd tech.... I bought 2 of them... one is for a friend.

TheMadDutchDude · Jul 6, 2019

Link is dead.

johnspack · Jul 6, 2019

Try it now.

newtekie1 · Jul 6, 2019

Multi-level cell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

TLC technically is MLC. All TLC is MLC, but not all MLC is TLC...

Most of the time MLC is considered just to mean 2 bit cells, and TLC is 3 bit cells. But Samsung's marketing team realizes that people think MLC means just 2 bit per cell, and therefor it is more desirable. So they do the scummy thing of now calling TLC 3-bit MLC.

biffzinker · Jul 6, 2019

TheMadDutchDude said:
Link is dead.

Try this: https://www.newegg.ca/samsung-860-evo-series-500gb/p/N82E16820147674

johnspack said:
Try it now.

Nope, still not working

johnspack · Jul 6, 2019

So now I'm seeing 2bit mlc vs 3bit mlc... now what's the difference in that? The pro versions are 2 bit mlc. Dam.
Oh well, my buddy will be happy... takes 5mins to boot his haswell box on an hd... I'll be so happy to put an ssd
in that....

newtekie1 · Jul 6, 2019

biffzinker said:
Try this: https://www.newegg.ca/samsung-860-evo-series-500gb/p/N82E16820147674

Nope, still not working

Turn off your ad-blocker.

johnspack said:
So now I'm seeing 2bit mlc vs 3bit mlc... now what's the difference in that? The pro versions are 2 bit mlc. Dam.
Oh well, my buddy will be happy... takes 5mins to boot his haswell box on an hd... I'll be so happy to put an ssd
in that....

2-bit MLC = The MLC we are used to and expect
3-bit MLC = TLC

johnspack · Jul 7, 2019

Is there any point in the pro series for a regular consumer over the 860s?

SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW - Newegg.com

Buy SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.ca

Dam, so I should try to get a 2bit drive.... they are so expensive...
So I got burned... 2 tlc drives.... oh well at least they were cheap.

newtekie1 · Jul 7, 2019

johnspack said:
Is there any point in the pro series for a regular consumer over the 860s?

SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW - Newegg.com

Buy SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.ca

Dam, so I should try to get a 2bit drive.... they are so expensive....

For a normal consumer, QLC is fine...

biffzinker · Jul 7, 2019

johnspack said:
So now I'm seeing 2bit mlc vs 3bit mlc... now what's the difference in that? The pro versions are 2 bit mlc. Dam.

UserBenchmark said:
3D V-NAND is the latest technology in the flash memory world. This is where planar NAND (single planes of NAND cells) are stacked vertically, giving the ‘V’ in V-NAND. Due to the change in vertical arrangement of cells these SSDs have better capacities at lower production costs, half the power requirements, twice the speed and ten times the longevity of planar NAND.

Genuine 2-bit MLC would still be planar NAND vs the stacked TLC hybrid being referred to as MLC.

Vario · Jul 7, 2019

If you had an SSD before you can check to see its total writes, figure out how many years it took you to reach that number of writes, and then you can check the endurance specification for the SSD you just bought and get an idea of its lifespan. Most non professional users do not need the endurance of TLC.

johnspack · Jul 7, 2019

Yes in the end you are right. Although one of my evo 850s is showing a lot of wear, still running great. Just wanted to make sure my buddy got a good ssd.
Guess I probably shouldn't question samsungs.. seeing as how I have 2 of them and an hd....

Mussels · Jul 7, 2019

the samsung 860 is still a high quality drive, nothing to be burned about there, unless you could get a Pro model for the same or very similar price (as an owner of a 970 pro NVME drive, outside of very specific use cases i cant tell it apart from my sata SSD TLC based systems)

johnspack · Jul 7, 2019

Heh, yeah the pro is almost twice the price. Wasn't sure if it made it that much faster or not! I guess if it's not m2, then it doesn't matter... a samsung drive will pump regardless.
Think I'm just getting twitchy waiting for my 8 core 1680 cpu to arrive. Waited so dam long for one.....

Mussels · Jul 7, 2019

its not about faster - often the only real world difference is how long the writes can be sustained for

my intel 6000P NVME drive could write at 500MB/s, for all of 5 seconds before it choked and wrote at 15MB/s
and yet, it could read at high speeds all day long

johnspack · Jul 7, 2019

Well, for my VMs, I'm hoping the 860 can keep up. I can probably fill it with vms in a few days. I need high iops as well, but I know a sata ssd isn't going to give
me a lot of that.

Gungar · Jul 8, 2019

Mussels said:
its not about faster - often the only real world difference is how long the writes can be sustained for

my intel 6000P NVME drive could write at 500MB/s, for all of 5 seconds before it choked and wrote at 15MB/s
and yet, it could read at high speeds all day long

I have no idea why anyone would buy that crap

Vayra86 · Jul 8, 2019

newtekie1 said:
For a normal consumer, QLC is fine...

You think? There is a noticeable performance drop and reliability isn't great, while the price/GB barely makes a worthwhile jump.

IMO, QLC is one step too far. I was never happy with dying HDDs either, even if they did 5 years or 7 years later...

Gungar · Jul 8, 2019

Vayra86 said:
You think? There is a noticeable performance drop and reliability isn't great, while the price/GB barely makes a worthwhile jump.

IMO, QLC is one step too far. I was never happy with dying HDDs either, even if they did 5 years or 7 years later...

Well it may become interesting in 5/10 years like what happened with TLC, because i don't see this big companies invest in QLC if they weren't sure that it would become interesting vs TLC.

Vario · Jul 8, 2019

1TB Phison E12 based drives write at insane speeds, have an amazing endurance, and cost about the same as the QLC. So I don't understand the market for the QLC Intel model.
Here is my E12, this drive sells for ~$97 at this time.

Specifications

Capacity: 1TB
Read Speed: 3,100 MBps
Write Speed: 1,900 MBps
Interface: PCIe Gen 3 x 4
Form Factor: M.2 2280
Architecture: 3D NAND Flash
Random Read 4K: 570,000 IOPS
Random Write 4K: 570,000 IOPS
Supported Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8,10
Endurance: 1600 TBW

Mussels · Jul 8, 2019

Gungar said:
I have no idea why anyone would buy that crap

1TB drive for $180 when a 1TB samsung was over $500

Zareek · Jul 8, 2019

johnspack said:
Is there any point in the pro series for a regular consumer over the 860s?

SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW - Newegg.com

Buy SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE2T0BW with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.ca

Dam, so I should try to get a 2bit drive.... they are so expensive...
So I got burned... 2 tlc drives.... oh well at least they were cheap.

There was no burning, these are excellent drives. The 860 EVO is a consumer grade drive so you have a smaller amount of times you can write to it, it is rated for 300TB worth. You can basically completely fill the drive everyday for almost two years straight. Considering most people write 30GB or less a day, I think you are good for 20 to 30 years.

You are a great friend for buying your buddy that drive. I wish I had friends that nice.

johnspack · Jul 8, 2019

Heh, not that quite good of a buddy.... I expect him to pay for it. I had to charge it.
But one of my 850 evos is 3.5yrs old and has a crapload of writes to it, and still fast.
So these 860s with twice the wear level, should last a dam long time.

R-T-B · Jul 9, 2019

biffzinker said:
Genuine 2-bit MLC would still be planar NAND vs the stacked TLC hybrid being referred to as MLC.

No. Stacking/3D nand tech is just how the chips are arranged. It has nothing to do with mlc vs tlc, qlc, etc. That's the cell formating.

Performance wise mlc vs tlc has little difference on samsung drives. It's mostly an endurance thing, and both drives still have insanely high endurance, so I would not worry.

biffzinker · Jul 9, 2019

R-T-B said:
It has nothing to do with mlc vs tlc, qlc, etc. That's the cell formating.

I understand that part but I thought the stacking of TLC made it behave similar to how planar MLC operates.

System Name	System2 Blacknet , System1 Blacknet2
Processor	System2 Threadripper 1920x, System1 2699 v3
Motherboard	System2 Asrock Fatality x399 Professional Gaming, System1 Asus X99-A
Cooling	System2 Noctua NH-U14 TR4-SP3 Dual 140mm fans, System1 AIO
Memory	System2 64GBS DDR4 3000, System1 32gbs DDR4 2400
Video Card(s)	System2 GTX 980Ti System1 GTX 970
Storage	System2 4x SSDs + NVme= 2.250TB 2xStorage Drives=8TB System1 3x SSDs=2TB
Display(s)	2x 24" 1080 displays
Case	System2 Some Nzxt case with soundproofing...
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar U7 MKII
Power Supply	System2 EVGA 750 Watt, System1 XFX XTR 750 Watt
Mouse	Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard	Ducky
Software	Manjaro, Windows 10, Kubuntu 23.10
Benchmark Scores	It's linux baby!

System Name	System2 Blacknet , System1 Blacknet2
Processor	System2 Threadripper 1920x, System1 2699 v3
Motherboard	System2 Asrock Fatality x399 Professional Gaming, System1 Asus X99-A
Cooling	System2 Noctua NH-U14 TR4-SP3 Dual 140mm fans, System1 AIO
Memory	System2 64GBS DDR4 3000, System1 32gbs DDR4 2400
Video Card(s)	System2 GTX 980Ti System1 GTX 970
Storage	System2 4x SSDs + NVme= 2.250TB 2xStorage Drives=8TB System1 3x SSDs=2TB
Display(s)	2x 24" 1080 displays
Case	System2 Some Nzxt case with soundproofing...
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar U7 MKII
Power Supply	System2 EVGA 750 Watt, System1 XFX XTR 750 Watt
Mouse	Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard	Ducky
Software	Manjaro, Windows 10, Kubuntu 23.10
Benchmark Scores	It's linux baby!

Processor	Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard	AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling	Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory	32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s)	RTX 2070 Super
Storage	500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s)	Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case	Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s)	Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply	eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software	Windows 10 Pro x64

Processor	Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard	MSI B450 Tomahawk ATX
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition
Memory	VENGEANCE LPX 2 x 16GB DDR4-3600 C18 OCed 3800
Video Card(s)	XFX Speedster SWFT309 AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT CORE Gaming
Storage	970 EVO NVMe M.2 500 GB, 870 QVO 1 TB
Display(s)	Samsung 28” 4K monitor
Case	Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s)	EVGA NU Audio
Power Supply	EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse	SteelSeries Rival 310
Keyboard	Logitech G G413 Silver
Software	Windows 10 Professional 64-bit v22H2

System Name	System2 Blacknet , System1 Blacknet2
Processor	System2 Threadripper 1920x, System1 2699 v3
Motherboard	System2 Asrock Fatality x399 Professional Gaming, System1 Asus X99-A
Cooling	System2 Noctua NH-U14 TR4-SP3 Dual 140mm fans, System1 AIO
Memory	System2 64GBS DDR4 3000, System1 32gbs DDR4 2400
Video Card(s)	System2 GTX 980Ti System1 GTX 970
Storage	System2 4x SSDs + NVme= 2.250TB 2xStorage Drives=8TB System1 3x SSDs=2TB
Display(s)	2x 24" 1080 displays
Case	System2 Some Nzxt case with soundproofing...
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar U7 MKII
Power Supply	System2 EVGA 750 Watt, System1 XFX XTR 750 Watt
Mouse	Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard	Ducky
Software	Manjaro, Windows 10, Kubuntu 23.10
Benchmark Scores	It's linux baby!

System Name	Computer of Theseus
Processor	Intel i9-12900KS: 50x Pcore multi @ 1.18Vcore (target 1.275V -100mv offset)
Motherboard	EVGA Z690 Classified
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15S, 2xThermalRight TY-143, 4xNoctua NF-A12x25,3xNF-A12x15, 2xAquacomputer Splitty9Active
Memory	G-Skill Trident Z5 (32GB) DDR5-6000 C36 F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK
Video Card(s)	EVGA Geforce 3060 XC Black Gaming 12GB
Storage	1x Samsung 970 Pro 512GB NVMe (OS), 2x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB (data 1 and 2), ASUS BW-16D1HT
Display(s)	Dell S3220DGF 32" 2560x1440 165Hz Primary, Dell P2017H 19.5" 1600x900 Secondary, Ergotron LX arms.
Case	Lian Li O11 Air Mini
Audio Device(s)	Audiotechnica ATR2100X-USB, El Gato Wave XLR Mic Preamp, ATH M50X Headphones, Behringer 302USB Mixer
Power Supply	Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE 1000W 80+ Platinum White
Mouse	Zowie EC3-C
Keyboard	Vortex Multix 87 Winter TKL (Gateron G Pro Yellow)
Software	Win 10 LTSC 21H2

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	06/2023
Processor	R7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ROG STRIX B650E-I GAMING WIFI
Cooling	Custom 240mm cooling (for CPU) with noctua nfa12x25 and Phantek T30
Memory	32gb Gskill 6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	RTX 4070 dual asus deshrouded with 120mm NF-A12x25
Storage	2tb samsung 990 pro + 4tb samsung 870 evo
Display(s)	Asus 27" Oled PG27AQDM + Asus 27" IPS PG279QM
Case	Ncase M1 v6.1
Audio Device(s)	Steelseries arctis pro wireless + Shure SM7b with Steinberg UR
Power Supply	Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse	Corsair scimitar pro (this mouse need an overall guys pls) + Logitech G Pro wireless with powerplay
Keyboard	Sharkoon purewriter
Software	windows 11
Benchmark Scores	Over 9000 !

Processor	i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard	AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling	beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory	16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s)	ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage	Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s)	Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case	Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s)	Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse	XTRFY M42
Keyboard	Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software	W10 x64

System Name	Daily Driver(gaming, browsing)
Processor	Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard	Gigabyte X570 Aurus Pro Wifi
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black
Memory	32GB(2x16GB) Patriot Viper DDR4-3200C16
Video Card(s)	EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage	Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB (Boot/OS)\|Hynix Platinum P41 2TB (Games)\|Kingston KC3000 2TB (Misc)
Display(s)	Gigabyte G27F
Case	Corsair Graphite 600T w/mesh side
Audio Device(s)	Logitech Z625 2.1 \| cheapo gaming headset when mic is needed
Power Supply	Corsair HX850i
Mouse	Redragon M808-KS Storm Pro (Great Value)
Keyboard	Redragon K512 Shiva replaced a Corsair K70 Lux - Blue on Black
VR HMD	Nope
Software	Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores	Nope

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

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