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Cooler Master Mobius 120 Fan

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I disagree on both points. Quality has been excellent since about 2004.
I didn't say that EVGA's quality was bad, someone else did. I said that their level of customer service was thee biggest driving factor behind their success. I worked at Tiger Direct between 2006 and 2008 and I sold EVGA products (video cards and motherboards). Everyone at the time talked about EVGA's trade-in upgrade program.

So, since you "disagree on both points" (one of which wasn't mine), you're saying that their legendary level of customer service is a myth even though I was taught it at Tiger Direct? That's what you're saying here.
 

VSG

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I didn't say that EVGA's quality was bad, someone else did. I said that their level of customer service was thee biggest driving factor behind their success. I worked at Tiger Direct between 2006 and 2008 and I sold EVGA products (video cards and motherboards). Everyone at the time talked about EVGA's trade-in upgrade program.

So, since you "disagree on both points" (one of which wasn't mine), you're saying that their legendary level of customer service is a myth even though I was taught it at Tiger Direct? That's what you're saying here.
Keep the discussion on the topic please, this is the reviews comment section.
Is it so hard to read? Take this off-topic discussion elsewhere please.
 

cbb

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ok, why do all the fans only test vs radiators? some of these products reviewed (not this one) have seemed to have been intended as case fans, and a lot of us want a good case fan. But literally all the graphs and tests are vs radiators. Show some love for case fans!

For that matter, other than tidy interiors, why in the world is *everyone* using liquid (AIOs mostly)? air is pretty similar end result I think and w/o pump whine, bubbles lowering effectiveness over time, and risk of total disaster (I use my rigs a looong time; 9yrs on this one for example).
 
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I’m curious about this too, but for different reasons. Personally I think that radiators are useful for tests because most good fans these days are optimized around a PQ curve, so a radiator might only test one impedance scenario but ought to scale depending on whether there’s less impedance (most case filters, which are near impossible to standardize or describe) or a higher impedance scenario (most heatsinks, which are only sometimes documented as well as radiators).

But then I read @VSG’s review of that new Corsair “airflow” fan and saw that they tested it as an intake and that it outperformed others, and remembered that not everyone is Noctua or Nidec or bequiet and caters to markets that believe in airflow vs pressure, and might actually design around those ideas (?). Maybe it’s a pita, in which case nbd, but if you’re testing fans like this anyway I’d be curious to see the results, as imperfect as they may be (or even just free airflow scenarios through a tube or whatever like others do, as unrealistic as that is)!
 

VSG

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ok, why do all the fans only test vs radiators? some of these products reviewed (not this one) have seemed to have been intended as case fans, and a lot of us want a good case fan. But literally all the graphs and tests are vs radiators. Show some love for case fans!

For that matter, other than tidy interiors, why in the world is *everyone* using liquid (AIOs mostly)? air is pretty similar end result I think and w/o pump whine, bubbles lowering effectiveness over time, and risk of total disaster (I use my rigs a looong time; 9yrs on this one for example).
My fan reviews were part of the watercooling category until W1zzard decided they merited to be their own category. I can't just change my testing protocol for this reason though, but there may be someone else coming along to help with other fan testing.
 
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But will they have an anechoic chamber? Will you two be testing the same fans? :confused:

Tbph that has me a little worried, like how someone who doesn’t test dacs all the time reviewed the new creative external dac. No shade to them, and I understand that it’s a different market, but I would’ve liked to read your thoughts about it as well. I somehow don’t imagine the review would’ve been as positive :oops:
 
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VSG

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But will they have an anechoic chamber? Will you two be testing the same fans? :confused:

Tbph that has me a little worried, like how someone who doesn’t test dacs all the time reviewed the new creative external dac. No shade to them, and I understand that it’s a different market, but I would’ve liked to read your thoughts about it as well. I somehow don’t imagine the review would’ve been as positive :oops:
Nothing finalized yet on the fans so I don't know enough either. It would just be add-ons to my reviews, if at all.

As for the Creative review done, Inle has more experience than I do with soundcards and the entire Creative source lineup in general. So his thoughts are more than valid and he also cares more about the microphone inputs than I do.
 
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As for the Creative review done, Inle has more experience than I do with soundcards and the entire Creative source lineup in general. So his thoughts are more than valid and he also cares more about the microphone inputs than I do.
That's sort of what I figured, as well as the gaming specific features, which I know a lot of readers care about. Thanks to both of you for your reviews!
 
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My fan reviews were part of the watercooling category until W1zzard decided they merited to be their own category. I can't just change my testing protocol for this reason though, but there may be someone else coming along to help with other fan testing.
You should break the chains of his tyrany! :D
 

cbb

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My fan reviews were part of the watercooling category until W1zzard decided they merited to be their own category. I can't just change my testing protocol for this reason though, but there may be someone else coming along to help with other fan testing.
well, so you can't change it unilaterally; talk to your boss then. Even when one uses an AIO one still needs case fans, and if aircooling just case fans; so a significant fraction of premium fan sales are likely to be for case use. Something simple like a single std open air case in your test room, where you post noise vs rpm and cite the mfg's max rpm/max cfm. Or, heck, even just copying the mfg's stated noise and cfm and compare to others recently discussed (no testing needed, assuming they publish anything like useful info..which is a stretch for some, I'll admit).
Just a thought, I'm not gonna have kittens or anything (well, I ALREADY have kittens, so...).
Lacking useful comparisons of case fans, I'll probably just stick w/ Noctua or BeQuiet's latest and move on. But, for those of us who prioritize noise heavily, it seems like a pretty big omission that would be easier to address than the tons and tons of runs you currently do.

Just a thought of some rando on the internutz, ignore freely.:cool:
 

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ok, why do all the fans only test vs radiators? some of these products reviewed (not this one) have seemed to have been intended as case fans, and a lot of us want a good case fan. But literally all the graphs and tests are vs radiators. Show some love for case fans!

For that matter, other than tidy interiors, why in the world is *everyone* using liquid (AIOs mostly)? air is pretty similar end result I think and w/o pump whine, bubbles lowering effectiveness over time, and risk of total disaster (I use my rigs a looong time; 9yrs on this one for example).
because the reviewer would need to start a new database (which i'm all for as well) and that would take a lot of time.

With enough interest its possible to begin but a key thing here is very simple - case fans don't change performance as much as how many you have and where you place them in a case.

3x of the best 120mm fans as a front intake does nothing in a case where the case has 3x140mm top vents as an open mesh and none of the air ever reaches the components - you'd need to fill every slot in a case and compare that way, or do some sort of wind tunnel test or... oh something repeatable like a radiator, or air cooler.
 
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Oof; I’m pretty sure standardized fan tests on cases disprove a lot of what you’re saying, but you’re right about every chassis being different

Lord help those that fill every case fan mount, the poor souls
 

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Standardised tests on cases - okay, show one?

The only times they were done in the past were on cases a lot more sealed than todays modern mesh-frenzy of openings everywhere
 
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I said standardized fan tests, friend, as in using the same set of fans in different cases. There is obviously no way to standardize every case as they are all unique.
With enough interest its possible to begin but a key thing here is very simple - case fans don't change performance as much as how many you have and where you place them in a case.
This is what a standardized fan test tests for, like GN does. If you use x fans you get this performance with this case. SPCR and some others used to do this as well
3x of the best 120mm fans as a front intake does nothing in a case where the case has 3x140mm top vents as an open mesh and none of the air ever reaches the components
I don’t think this is true since air goes where you push it, but agree that there is probably some loss. Then again, some cases have blanking panels, but this is very much an aside
you'd need to fill every slot in a case and compare that way,
This would not be standardized since cases often have a different number of fan mounts. The point of having different mount locations isn’t so much about the best airflow but to account for different component setups, IMO, although many manufacturers don’t really design cases around cooling at all
or do some sort of wind tunnel test or... oh something repeatable like a radiator, or air cooler.
Agreed :) I have no idea what a tunnel test for a case would look like but would be curious to see (obvs straight forward for a fan)
 
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20 euro each at komplett (scandinavia) not to bad ? (non argb fans)

My fans are Cooler Master MasterFan MF120 Halo at the low end in this test

Mobius is better any better for 20 euro each ?
 
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20 euro each at komplett (scandinavia) not to bad ? (non argb fans)

My fans are Cooler Master MasterFan MF120 Halo at the low en in this test

Mobius is better any better for 20 euro each ?
These Mobius 120 fans aren't bad, but with fans the regional pricing differences are often far more significant than anything else. The Phanteks T30 3-pack isn't much more expensive and will do better than these Mobius. In some places, the Arctic P12 Pro is a better option.

Sadly, regional pricing variance is very high for case fans.

I'm getting old enough that I can't be bothered to compromise on fans. A build either gets T30 fans all around because money isn't an issue, or I use the 5-pack of Arctic P12-PMW-PST fans because they're literally 1/6th the price and the best budget fan.
 
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Phanteks T30 is much more expensive each costing 37-38 euro each and 85-86 euros for a 3 pack + i only need 2

30 mm thick i would need new screws so i can use them for my 240mm aio

Im not trying to spend as much money on new fans as an artic freezer II 240 costs or even the 280 version

The phanteks T30 are more expensive then the Noctua NF-A12X25 PWM which is super expensive even when it's cheaper then the T30 fan
 
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Phanteks T30 is much more expensive each costing 37-38 euro each and 85-86 euros for a 3 pack + i only need 2

30 mm thick i would need new screws so i can use them for my 240mm aio

Im not trying to spend as much money on new fans as an artic freezer II 240 costs or even the 280 version

The phanteks T30 are more expensive then the Noctua NF-A12X25 PWM which is super expensive even when it's cheaper then the T30 fan
Yeah, like I said - regional pricing makes a huge difference, €37 each is insane for any fan. The T30 is very good but only at €25.

I feel like the P12 pro (also reviewed on TPU) is worth investigating. I've used them in a few builds and I'm impressed but the Mobius 120 might be marginally better - it all depends on local pricing.
 
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The T30 is very good but only at €25 is not possible +longer screws is necessary
 
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The T30 is very good but only at €25 is not possible +longer screws is necessary
On that note, Why are radiator screws long, penetrating both of the fan flanges, wehen every other fan screw is short - just long enough to screw the neighbouring fan flange into a case/heatsink/frame?!

It feels like looonnnng fan screw for radiators are an archaic relic that should have died off a long time ago.
 
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On that note, Why are radiator screws long, penetrating both of the fan flanges, wehen every other fan screw is short - just long enough to screw the neighbouring fan flange into a case/heatsink/frame?!

It feels like looonnnng fan screw for radiators are an archaic relic that should have died off a long time ago.
Probably due to the placement of the anti-vibration pads; most fans still have theirs only on the outward facing sides, not on the inside facings. That and some of the more hardcore watercooling enthusiasts still use thin gaskets to really seal up the frames/radiator edge to ensure all air passes through the fin stack, adding 1-2 extra mm depending on the gasket thickness and thickness of the anti-vibration pads.
 
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System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Probably due to the placement of the anti-vibration pads; most fans still have theirs only on the outward facing sides, not on the inside facings. That and some of the more hardcore watercooling enthusiasts still use thin gaskets to really seal up the frames/radiator edge to ensure all air passes through the fin stack, adding 1-2 extra mm depending on the gasket thickness and thickness of the anti-vibration pads.
Anti-vibration pads on fans are a marketing fallacy. You short-circuit the isolation that the pad is supposed to give by using a screw - the screw is a rigid mechanical lock ensuring no movement is possible between the fan frame and what you're screwing it into, rendering the rubber pad completely ineffective. Think about it - by screwing the fan direct to the case with a solid steel screw, you're de-isolating the rubber isolation damper. Rubber fan mounts look nice, and add grip when you're mounting fans which makes them marginally more satisfying to install; That is all they do.

The only true anti-vibration mounting for a fan is those rubber rivets that not only decouple the fan frame from what you're attaching it to, but also have a flange that acts as a spacer to stop any contact between the rest of the fan frame and the case you're mounting to.

If any hard plastic of the fan frame touches any of the metal of the case, radiator, (or steel fan screws) then they whole system is mechanically locked and all vibrations will be shared across the interface.
 
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Anti-vibration pads on fans are a marketing fallacy. You short-circuit the isolation that the pad is supposed to give by using a screw - the screw is a rigid mechanical lock ensuring no movement is possible between the fan frame and what you're screwing it into, rendering the rubber pad completely ineffective. Think about it - by screwing the fan direct to the case with a solid steel screw, you're de-isolating the rubber isolation damper. Rubber fan mounts look nice, and add grip when you're mounting fans which makes them marginally more satisfying to install; That is all they do.

The only true anti-vibration mounting for a fan is those rubber rivets that not only decouple the fan frame from what you're attaching it to, but also have a flange that acts as a spacer to stop any contact between the rest of the fan frame and the case you're mounting to.

If any hard plastic of the fan frame touches any of the metal of the case, radiator, (or steel fan screws) then they whole system is mechanically locked and all vibrations will be shared across the interface.
You're not wrong, and it doesn't help that fans with anti-vibration pads often come with screws that defeat the purpose. However, some fans do come with radiator screws that will only really touch the pads and the radiator, due to them usually being thinner than the standard screw hole and having to center the whole assembly anyway to make other fans fit. Of course, it then becomes an issue again where as you've said, the body of the fan may still end up touching the radiator if screwed down extra tight (assuming the user doesn't pierce the fins but want to try and seal the thin 1mm gap without a gasket).

As for screwing to bare metal (like the rear of a case), vibration dampening would either require the rubber rivets, which do have a problem of leaving a gap where some air will leak out of instead of completely through the exit, or solving it via the use of a gasket on the fan and rubber washers on the back side of the case, while using plastic screws and nuts that are sized a bit smaller than the standard fan mount holes. Of course, the latter is going the more extreme route of really trying to maximize airflow while also trying to maximize vibration dampening. Although it's honestly a bit of wasted effort, considering that in most cases, you'd still have the GPU bolted to the rear panel, and it will be vibrating a bit if it isn't waterblocked due to the fans in it.
 
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TPU should open their OnlyFans page.
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Gotcha!

My collection since then has multiplied into such a extent I can't even keep track of how many I have

I had two EVGA 970's i had to resell due to insane coil whine, they weren't always perfect

bad fans are bad fans, and shouldnt be blamed on zero-RPM - hell enough people use compressed air cans, over-rev the shit out of the fans and break the bearings and then blame anything but themselves when they click and grind and take forever to settle back into position each boot
Palit, in particular from experience has the worst possible fans. A customer of mine has NEVER cleaned his PC yet when I checked out his wonky PC i noticed a huge vibration in the case then I heard a rumbling noise, I found out 1 fan blade broke while in use!

And then the general flimsiness of Palit cards. They take the cake for being flimsy and cheapskate.
 
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