Core i9-7900X Skylake-X Review Shows Up

[LiveOrDie]

After looking at the reviews i think ill stick with my 5960X, I'm not going to spend that much on a CPU then have to delid it and lose its warranty lol, looking at the temps and the overclocking head room there nothing much to be had for a $1500 upgrade.

 

[Deleted member 172152]

After looking at the reviews i think ill stick with my 5960X, I'm not going to spend that much on a CPU then have to delid it and lose its warranty lol, looking at the temps and the overclocking head room there nothing much to be had for a $1500 upgrade.

5960x will work just fine for the next few years at least. Better to wait for the next new socket and mobochip for HEDT if you want to stick with intel, or you could wait for ryzen 2.0/3.0 and see if singlecore performance is good enough of an upgrade and if you can get more cores for your money.

 

[pantherx12]

If soldered the temps would be lower, you would need less voltage for the same oc and you could reach a higher oc at the same voltage. You won't push the cpu past its limits unless you oc professionally maybe.
With better paste or solder stock clocks could be higher and you would be able to oc less. I also stand by my point that overclocks should be ignored except in bencharks so you see what you get stock and what oc-ed. The oc itself is unimportant and comparing overclockability is just silly since the 7900x in this case probably has a lower baseclock than -x threadrippers will have and the boost 3.0 feature apparently doesn't work too well.

I may not know too well how a cpu actually works, but I know intel TIM going grainy isn't good and it has in the past with better TIM and lower temps, so it's definitely a point of concern.

Couple of things that may help you.

They don't bin CPUs based on what temperatures they reach.

They bin then based on what voltage it takes to reach x frequency. They can use this to calculate thermal design power or how much thermal energy in X amount of time with X heatsink installed will be produced.



So changing solder won't allow higher stock clocks, as the chips will still be binned on the exact same way.

In fact the only people a soldered IHS would help are extreme over clockers or bell ends running to many volts through the CPU.

You see this all the time with Ryzen, they're running cool so people keep pumping the volts in not caring about the damage they are doing over the long run.





I don't mean to be rude to you but your level of understand on how the technology works and how companies operate is quite limited, you think you are right because the limited information you "know" would make it right.

But here's an idea, you're ignorant on several important factors and straight up wrong about some of the things you "know".

 

[Deleted member 172152]

Couple of things that may help you.

They don't bin CPUs based on what temperatures they reach.

They bin then based on what voltage it takes to reach x frequency. They can use this to calculate thermal design power or how much thermal energy in X amount of time with X heatsink installed will be produced.



So changing solder won't allow higher stock clocks, as the chips will still be binned on the exact same way.

In fact the only people a soldered IHS would help are extreme over clockers or bell ends running to many volts through the CPU.

You see this all the time with Ryzen, they're running cool so people keep pumping the volts in not caring about the damage they are doing over the long run.





I don't mean to be rude to you but your level of understand on how the technology works and how companies operate is quite limited, you think you are right because the limited information you "know" would make it right.

But here's an idea, you're ignorant on several important factors and straight up wrong about some of the things you "know".

But with lower temps, you need less voltage. That's why with the wraith spire you don't get further than 3.9ghz with a 1700 generally and can reach 4ghz with a u12s if you don't mind noise and slightly higher temps.

With intel the bottleneck of TIM is considsrably larger, which is why with solder intel could easily have given the 7900x 3.5ghz base with the same temps or lower, which would help it a lot in benchmarks, and you could get 4.9-5ghz with high-end watercooling instead of 4.7-4.8ghz (and the TIM is still a concern since cheap paste degrades a lot over time unlike nt-h1 for example which will basically last you "forever" and 10-20c drop with mid-range liquid metal means it's definitely no nt-h1 or grizzly kryonaut).

 

[EarthDog]

Jesus Hugh...continuing your nonsense in this thread too? How many people does it take to get you to listen and understand??

For about the 4th time, a temp drop of 10-15c, which is typical for a delid, will NOT allow you to use less voltage. Now, when you are talking subambient, like when using dry ice or ln2, you are absolutely correct... just not with ambient and that little of a temp change.

If they could have binned these higber, they would have. Paste doesnt matter in this case. 200 mhz on most silicon would have pushed this cpu past their threshold of 140W. Again, lower temps arent dropping power or voltage in the case of a delid.

They paste they use wont fall apart. Stop thinking a story bere or tbere is actually how it is.

God damn this is frustrating having to keep in line the misinformation spewing from your fingers here...

 

[Deleted member 172152]

Jesus Hugh...continuing your nonsense in this thread too?

For about the 4th time, a temp drop of 10-15c, which is typical or a delid, will NOT allow you to use less voltage. Now, when you are talking subambient, like whwn using dry ice or ln2, you are absolutely correct... just not with ambient amd that little change.

How come a better cooler can allow a 5c drop in temps AND 1.3 to 1.25v for example on ryzen and how come a 3.9ghz oc on water needs significantly less voltage than with a wraith spire and has 10c-ish drop in temps? Better coolers seem to make it possible to drop from 1.35 to 1.25 volts sometimes for the same oc. 0.1v difference is a lot for a cpu.

 

[EarthDog]

How come a better cooler can allow a 5c drop in temps AND 1.3 to 1.25v for example on ryzen and how come a 3.9ghz oc on water needs significantly less voltage than with a wraith spire and has 10c-ish drop in temps?

it cant... and it doesnt. Post proof (a problem you and the other chatterbox trparky have problems with). If you saw that happening, there was another reason (wasnt tweaked down fully already).

Simply...science and facts you are spitting in the face of here bud.

 

[LiveOrDie]

5960x will work just fine for the next few years at least. Better to wait for the next new socket and mobochip for HEDT if you want to stick with intel, or you could wait for ryzen 2.0/3.0 and see if singlecore performance is good enough of an upgrade and if you can get more cores for your money.

Yeah i know but missing that new hardware smell and wanted something new to play with .

 

[trparky]

But wouldn't the higher running temperatures result in higher electrical resistance inside the chip?

 

[EarthDog]

But wouldn't the higher running temperatures result in higher electrical resistance inside the chip?

Bud, its been answered. 5c, 10c, 15c, it wont matter. Negligible at best. I know, i overclock on air, water, dry ice, and ln2. You dont get to drop voltages on a cpu from a 10c drop in temps. Certainly not .1V. Maybe .01v, but thats within a margin of error on these sensors anyway. Its not worth the mention and unequivocally false to say .1v.

 

[trparky]

Intel Core i9-7900X Review: Meet Skylake-X, Temperature & Thermal Problems | Tom's Hardware
The second section on that article (under the image) seems to prove my point about the TIM, even they admit that there's a problem and they know way more than me.

 

[EarthDog]

We know there can be better tim... that point was never up in the air. It was the constant use of the term 'shit' tim and that it falls apart (like a lot of cpu do this - they dont) is what many of us took exception to.

I reviewed the cpu myself. I saw 90c at 4.5ghz with all cores running a stress test (aida64 fpu - slightly higher in p95). Games were sitting around 70 iirc. Perfectly acceptable...the processor will lead a long life there, and the tim will be good throghout the life of the cpu.

 

[trparky]

We know there can be better tim

So why don't they use it?! I mean come on, we're paying Intel upwards of $300 USD for these damn things, the least they could do is put some decent TIM in these damn things.

 

[EarthDog]

I cant answer that question...

Again, its decent tim.. does the job just fine at stock, and allows for some overclocking. Sorry its not as much as many would like, but...it isnt shit, and wont crumble in your hands after use as was said by you two in this thread.

Hopefully you two can wrap your head around that and stop being so damn dramatic over it.

 

[trparky]

Hopefully you two can wrap your head around that and stop being so damn dramatic over it.

I understand that.

does the job just fine at stock

OK but as per Tom's Hardware it still runs hotter than I would like it to run but I guess that's what happens as you add more cores. More cores equals more heat.

allows for some overclocking

Not much, I would expect far more overclocking headroom on Intel chips. They are premium hardware after all.

 

[EarthDog]

I understand that.


OK but as per Tom's Hardware it still runs hotter than I would like it to run but I guess that's what happens as you add more cores. More cores equals more heat.


Not much, I would expect far more overclocking headroom on Intel chips. They are premium hardware after all.

if you understand, stop calling it shit.

Again, hotter than "you" like isnt relevant. What the whitepaper says is what you should go by...not personal preference. Well, at least dont hold ypur preferences against it when whitepaper saus otherwise.

You must really hate ryzen 1800x... even with its lower temps, its total overclock is 400 mjz from base to max clock with all cores. 7900x...3.3ghz base to 4.5ghz all cores..seems like it overclocks 3x better...also, 7900x boosts all cores to 4ghz... the 1800x's limit...or clsoe to it.

 

[trparky]

OK, "less than desirable" TIM. That better for you?

I still stand by the idea that running that close to the thermal threshold makes me uncomfortable. I tend to monitor my system temperatures closely and 90c would cause me to freak out.

 

[EarthDog]

MUCH better. Yes.

I don't care, nor does intel care about your preference. Your preference is fine... that is your thing, but its OK to run up there as we have all said ad nauseum.

 

[Deleted member 172152]

We know there can be better tim... that point was never up in the air. It was the constant use of the term 'shit' tim and that it falls apart (like a lot of cpu do this - they dont) is what many of us took exception to.

I reviewed the cpu myself. I saw 90c at 4.5ghz with all cores running a stress test (aida64 fpu - slightly higher in p95). Games were sitting around 70 iirc. Perfectly acceptable...the processor will lead a long life there, and the tim will be good throghout the life of the cpu.

Seriously. Just synthetic benches and GAMES? Games barely use a 7900x and most HEDT buyers will run multiple programs at once or at least do stuff like all-core 4k rendering! Bet you'll get something like 90c again and that's only at 4.5ghz! Try 4.6, 4.7 or even 4.8ghz, where it really should oc to being an optimized skylake!

8:55 wraith spire can only handle 1.32-ish volts, not 1.3625 like u12s, which could go a bit further and AIO's can handle 1.4+ volts according to some other reviewers. Heat conductivity and heat dispensing capacity make a huge difference. Considering delidding gives 2 degrees or so lower temps on ryzen 7 and more like 15 on the 7900x, that's essentially still the difference between something like a u12s and 240-280mm AIO, or 0.05v+ max on ryzen, so that's a huge difference in cpu terms. Of course the voltage difference is speculation and you can't compare intel and AMD, but the point is that the limit is moved up 0.05v or so if I'm correct, which is 200-300mhz difference depending on how lucky you get with silicon with 7900x and if you're looking at baseclocks or improved overclocked speeds.

 

[EarthDog]

Nope. Just nope.

 

[Beastie]

Seriously. Just synthetic benches and GAMES? Games barely use a 7900x and most HEDT buyers will run multiple programs at once or at least do stuff like all-core 4k rendering! Bet you'll get something like 90c again and that's only at 4.5ghz! Try 4.6, 4.7 or even 4.8ghz, where it really should oc to being an optimized skylake!

8:55 wraith spire can only handle 1.32-ish volts, not 1.3625 like u12s, which could go a bit further and AIO's can handle 1.4+ volts according to some other reviewers. Heat conductivity and heat dispensing capacity make a huge difference. Considering delidding gives 2 degrees or so lower temps on ryzen 7 and more like 15 on the 7900x, that's essentially still the difference between something like a u12s and 240-280mm AIO, or 0.05v+ max on ryzen, so that's a huge difference in cpu terms. Of course the voltage difference is speculation and you can't compare intel and AMD, but the point is that the limit is moved up 0.05v or so if I'm correct, which is 200-300mhz difference depending on how lucky you get with silicon with 7900x and if you're looking at baseclocks or improved overclocked speeds.

If you raise the voltage enough then you will fry the chip regardless of temps.. conversely if you run it within spec temps those temps won't fry the chip. You are arguing the exact opposite- in the face of all evidence and sensible advice.

 

[Deleted member 172152]

If you raise the voltage enough then you will fry the chip regardless of temps.. conversely if you run it within spec temps those temps won't fry the chip. You are arguing the exact opposite- in the face of all evidence and sensible advice.

1.4v probably won't fry ryzen and it was just to demonstrate that better TIM means you can handle more volts (to a point). With better cooling you can also drop voltage a bit. Where 1.3125 is required with a wraith spire for 3.9ghz, you can have 1.3v or less with u12s. Not sure exactly how to calculate how much you can drop voltage, but it has to do with PTC resistance stuff. 75 v 90c means you can drop voltages quite a bit, or oc higher on the same voltage. Maybe that difference in resistance is marginal (why are voltages specified so little in reviews?!), but you will be able to oc higher with solder than with intel TIM with the same temparatures, which is important to many enthousiasts.

 

[EarthDog]

With better cooling you can also drop voltage a bit. Where 1.3125 is required with a wraith spire for 3.9ghz, you can have 1.3v or less with u12s. Not sure exactly how to calculate how much you can drop voltage, but it has to do with PTC resistance stuff. 75 v 90c means you can drop voltages quite a bit, or oc higher on the same voltage.

No.. and Nope... again.

A couple of problems...
1. Software readings are notoriously inaccurate.
2. With #1, a difference of .01v isn't really measureable using software as the dude did in the video.
3. I also addressed that point earlier.

75 v 90c means you can drop voltages quite a bit, or a higher overclock at he same voltage

Nope... it does not... not in the least. 15C will not allow a noteable drop in voltage.

but you will be able to oc higher with solder than with intel TIM with the same temparatures

You were good here until the last part. If Im hitting my temp limit Im hitting my temp limit. The TIM used doesn't matter as in the end its still at the temp limit. Now, because it LOWERS temps, you have more headroom. But to state that you can get a higher overclock at the same temp with different tim is a ludacris statement. Did you mean to say that???

 

[Deleted member 172152]

No.. and Nope... again.

A couple of problems...
1. Software readings are notoriously inaccurate.
2. With #1, a difference of .01v isn't really measureable using software as the dude did in the video.
3. I also addressed that point earlier.

Nope... it does not... not in the least. 15C will not allow a noteable drop in voltage.

You were good here until the last part. If Im hitting my temp limit Im hitting my temp limit. The TIM used doesn't matter as in the end its still at the temp limit. Now, because it LOWERS temps, you have more headroom. But to state that you can get a higher overclock at the same temp with different tim is a ludacris statement. Did you mean to say that???

Lower temp and same oc, or same temp and higher oc. That's the simplest reason solder is so much better than intel's TIM, other than possible longevity issues.

Going from something like a wraith stealth to a 280mm radiator, you can drop voltages a fair bit. Of course replacing the TIM isn't quite as big of a difference, but it still easily is big enough of a difference to fall outside of margin of error. Of course I can't proof anything since reviews are done with different chips with better/worse silicon, but I have seen a few trustworthy reviews state the difference between required voltage between air and liquid cooling for example. Just kinda hard to find them when 99% of reviews only uses air or water cooling and it's especially hard to find a review stating voltages required for x frequency. I believe some ryzen reviews did though. I'll see if I can find one of those.

 

[EarthDog]