CPU & GPU temperature scary high

[Vya Domus]

you should do more research before giving advice:

I actually didn't give any particular advice, just mentioned some basic notions.

If there is anything that I said that you think it's incorrect feel free to say it, rather that pointing me to some website. Otherwise your recommendation for me to do more research means little.

The OP even said that the glass side panel is hot to the touch so say what you will, it’s not removing the heat well enough.

Glass retains heat, no wonder. OP's case has 3 front fans and 1 exhaust, are you suggesting that's not enough ? I somehow find that hard to believe, I am going to say it again, this is an 50W CPU we are talking about. And a 180W TDP GPU, true but that card must be pretty underutilized most of the time due to the bottleneck.

We are looking at 200W of heat at worst and 4 case fans can't deal with that ? Again, hard to believe.

 

[looniam]

I actually didn't give any particular advice, just mentioned some basic notions.

If there is anything that I said that you think it's incorrect feel free to say it, rather that pointing me to some website. Otherwise your recommendation for me to do more research means little.

well your "notion" is completely wrong; to claim the air flow through a case will be the same with or without an exhaust fan. if you really believe that, well, it's almost pointless to discuss this with you.

there needs to an equal (or very close to equal) air flow leaving the case as entering. having all intake with nothing helping the exhaust will cause a build up of pressure making the intake fans less effective and also causing the temps to rise as the air stays in longer; that is basic physics and not a "notion." also, having warmer air is less effective to remove the heat from the heatsink is basic thermal dynamics.

fundamentally, water works the same as air. put a pan on the stove that has an inlet and outlet and apply heat. increasing the inlet faster than the outlet causes the water to be exposed longer to the heat and gets hotter. though really, to not even bother looking at the link i posted and blow it off as some website, looks to me you don't care to find out and that i am likely talking to a brick wall.

and i didn't say you gave advise, i said you should do more research before giving it, two can play that game.

 

[cadaveca]

You guys are hilarious. Yes, air is classified as a liquid for cooling considerations.

But there is this thing called positive pressure, and Bernoulli's principle (which uses different equations on water and air since one is compressible and the other is not). That means you cannot directly compare water and air flows.

The highest speed of the airflow will be where the pressure is the lowest, at the exhaust with no fan. No exhaust fan is needed.

Then there's stuff like this:

https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_positive&area=en

 

[looniam]

i don't care how many positive vs negative air pressure gifs are used; there is NO WAY a vent will have the same air flow without a fan as with. well unless its a crappy fan . .but you know what i mean.

how about data from actual testing:
The Big Air Cooling Investigation

Generally, all other things being equal, it’s better to get hot air out of your case than to pump cool air in, particularly when it comes to CPU cooling.

 

[cadaveca]

i don't care how many positive vs negative air pressure gifs are used; there is NO WAY a vent will have the same air flow without a fan as with.

Well, you know, I don't care about how many FORUM posts say what... I refer to science and what I learned taking HVAC system design. One fan blowing may actually RESTRICT airflow and cause a stall condition (axial fans actually blow air both out of a system, but also back IN). Either way, three fans blowing in, with no restriction = three fans worth of airflow out the open exhaust hole.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/29166.pdf

 

[looniam]

Well, you know, I don't care about how many FORUM posts say what... I refer to science and what I learned taking HVAC system design. One fan blowing may actually RESTRICT airflow and cause a stall condition (axial fans actually blow air both out of a system, but also back IN). Either way, three fans blowing in, with no restriction = three fans worth of airflow out the open exhaust hole.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/29166.pdf

how about posting something related to PC cases?

1 Rear (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 64C | GPU: 85C
1 Top (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 65C | GPU: 83C
1 Front (Intake) Fan = CPU: 67C | GPU: 80C

as i posted an exhaust fan helps w/cpu temps. and having been a boiler tech in the navy and plenty of hand on experience with air and water cooling a PC - if you don't understand convection works better than radiant . . really mr .HVAC tech?

 

[Vya Domus]

well your "notion" is completely wrong; to claim the air flow through a case will be the same with or without an exhaust fan.

I actually got no idea where you got this from, you are making stuff up buddy. I simply said and I quote : "Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration" which is undeniably true, this isn't a damn compressor. There is no significant "build up of pressure".

And I even said the following :

The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.

In other words, you can only influence the airflow. But no matter what you do the air that will go in, will always go out, all of it. Be it with 100 exhaust fans or with none.

fundamentally, water works the same as air.

No they don't. They have different characteristics, such as viscosity and density. Hence they don't behave in the same away at all. And that's also the reason why you probably don't understand these things.

increasing the inlet faster than the outlet causes the water to be exposed longer to the heat and gets hotter.

Try pumping water into a chamber where the volume that goes in is higher that what goes out and see what it will happen. Spoiler alert : it will probably blow up or more likely you won't be able to do it to great extent since water isn't very compressible. I am guessing that the notion (yeah I am going to use that word again ) that you probably attempted to explain is that if you were to keep or recirculate the water it will get hotter. Seriously man, don't go near some equipment of the sort or accidents may occur if you believe that's how this works.

that is basic physics

As basic as it is, sadly , you don't understand it.

i said you should do more research

Well, this time I insist to give a piece of advice: don't allude to someone else's lack of knowledge on a subject and tell them to do some research unless you're certain that you understand what you claim. And I also suggest you let go of this argument, you are in the wrong and for the time being I appear to grasp the science and physics that you invoke better that you do.

 

[looniam]

Spoiler

I actually got no idea where you got this from, you are making stuff up buddy. I simply said and I quote : "Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration" which is undeniably true, this isn't a damn compressor. There is no significant "build up of pressure".

And I even said the following :

In other words, you can only influence the airflow. But no matter what you do the air that will go in, will always go out, all of it. Be it with 100 exhaust fans or with none.



No they don't. They have different characteristics, such as viscosity and density. Hence they don't behave in the same away at all. And that's also the reason why you probably don't understand these things.



Try pumping water into a chamber where the volume that goes in is higher that what goes out and see what it will happen. Spoiler alert : it will probably blow up. I am guessing that the notion (yeah I am going to use that word again ) that you probably attempted to explain is that if you were to keep or recirculate the water it will get hotter. Seriously man, don't go near some equipment of the sort or accidents may occur if you believe that's how this works.



As basic as it is, sadly , you don't understand it.



Well, this time I insist to give a piece of advice: don't allude to someone else's lack of knowledge on a subject and tell them to do some research unless you're certain that you understand what you claim. And I also suggest you let go of this argument, you are in the wrong and for the time being I appear to grasp the science and physics that you invoke better that you do

.

you post reminds me there is no argument against willful ignorance. you haven't shown any data relevant to back up your . . notions and refuse to look at any other.

good luck with that, we are done here.

 

[cadaveca]

really mr .HVAC tech?

Laughable at best. I mean, that's some decent info there, but that's using a tower cooler that has fans already blowing to the exhaust, but the OP has a stock cooler, with an axial fan blowing at 90 degrees from the case airflow. This is a very different set of fluid flow you are trying to compare here. That's why an exhaust fan may be sub-optimal, and I linked the Silverstone stuff. Those gifs show how fans can end up recirculating warm air back into the cooler.

It's cool you were in the navy as a boiler tech (I love being punny. ). Much respect to you for that.

HVAC does incorporate all of that, plus much more. I mean, you tried comparing water flow to airflow, but ignored Bernoulli's principle. That doesn't mean I know more than you do, but do you not think Bernoulli's principle applies here a bit?

My own PC case has three fans as intake, with no exhaust, cooling a GTX 1080, and a TR 1950X. This gives me the best temps, even with me using a tower cooler, contrary to your Linus Tech tips video. Every case will be different, especially if not using the same fans, which is why I linked the US Gov PDF. As a boiler tech, you should realize this, no?

Like, I don't mean to argue here really, but I found it HILARIOUS you guys are arguing over something so unimportant, really, to the topic at hand. THAT is what is funny. Not you yourself... BOTH of you. Me too, because now I'm doing it too. I wanted in on the fun. ROFL. I have nothing better to do right now though... Thanksgiving weekend and all.

 

[Vya Domus]

you haven't shown any data relevant to back up

Common misconception. The data you show also needs to be correct or in line to what you claim. Otherwise, well ... it's just data. Data by itself, not very useful.

If only you would have known that you'd have seen the fault in your arguments.

 

[looniam]

Laughable at best. I mean, that's some decent info there, but that's using a tower cooler that has fans already blowing to the exhaust, but the OP has a stock cooler, with an axial fan blowing at 90 degrees from the case airflow. This is a very different set of fluid flow you are trying to compare here. That's why an exhaust fan may be sub-optimal, and I linked the Silverstone stuff. Those gifs show how fans can end up recirculating warm air back into the cooler.

It's cool you were in the navy as a boiler tech (I love being punny. ). Much respect to you for that.

HVAC does incorporate all of that, plus much more. I mean, you tried comparing water flow to airflow, but ignored Bernoulli's principle. That doesn't mean I know more than you do, but do you not think Bernoulli's principle applies here a bit?

My own PC case has three fans as intake, with no exhaust, cooling a GTX 1080, and a TR 1950X. This gives me the best temps, even with me using a tower cooler, contrary to your Linus Tech tips video. Every case will be different, especially if not using the same fans, which is why I linked the US Gov PDF. As a boiler tech, you should realize this, no?

Like, I don't mean to argue here really, but I found it HILARIOUS you guys are arguing over something so unimportant, really, to the topic at hand. THAT is what is funny. Not you yourself... BOTH of you. Me too, because now I'm doing it too. I wanted in on the fun. ROFL. I have nothing better to do right now though... Thanksgiving weekend and all.

ofc the low hanging fruit is pointing out the case differences. or pointing out that in certain configurations an exhaust fan can impede air flow. (or a water block in a custom loop, oh dear i did it again!)

the point is convection works better than radiant and i'm sure your first HVAC class covered that. the OP has 3 120mm fans blowing in with nothing helping it flow out. to say another fan on the exhaust won't help is . . too much thanksgiving libations?

 

[cadaveca]

too much thanksgiving libations?

I don't drink alcohol. Or caffeine. Nice try though.

 

[looniam]

I don't drink alcohol. Or caffeine. Nice try though.

its wasn't a try but an honest question.

 

[cadaveca]

its wasn't a try but an honest question.

One that ignores the science of Bernoulli's principle. All that adding a fan may do is lower noise a wee bit, however if that fan's airflow is less than the airflow of all three of those fans combined, it is not going to have the results you think it is. It will merely force the air to try to escape other holes within the case. That's why that case is sold that way in the first place... Corsair actually does employ engineers to design this stuff.

I mean, if it was the way you think it'd be, why would they not just put two fans up front and one in the rear? Costs them nothing.

The answer is positive pressure and Bernoulli's principle. You can calculate this easily.


I don't need forum posts and youtube videos to understand or explain what's going on.

 

[looniam]

bernoulli's principle will affect CLOSED SYSTEMS ie.air/water tight. a PC case nor my analogy uses such a condition. well there is airplane lift but that isn't the discussion, now is it?

but it sounds like your mind is made up regardless.

E:
my boo boo is not specifying forced convention vs convection. huh, that's an obvious mistake.

 

[cadaveca]

bernoulli's principle will affect CLOSED SYSTEMS ie.air/water tight.

Huh? No it doesn't. How does it apply to an aircraft's wing, or other aspects of air flight then?

 

[looniam]

Huh? No it doesn't. How does it apply to an aircraft's wing, or other aspects of air flight then?

i'll gladly tutor you for a small fee.

but then again why should i bother since you know what you know and no forum post will change that?

 

[cadaveca]

i'll gladly tutor you for a small fee.

Let's use NASA's lessons....

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bernoulli_principle_k-4.pdf

Hence my comment about airflight. I'm sorry, but you don't understand, that's fine. Since we are on an enthusiast PC forum, and many cases these days come with just fans in the front, some users may question how a case maker can do this and think it's OK... I know the explanation, and it's relevant here. THAT's why I am happily continuing this discussion. It serves a purpose relative to this forum.

 

[looniam]

Let's use NASA's lessons....

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bernoulli_principle_k-4.pdf

Hence my comment about airflight. I'm sorry, but you don't understand, that's fine. Since we are on an enthusiast PC forum, and many cases these days come with just fans in the front, some users may question how a case maker can do this and think it's OK... I know the explanation, and it's relevant here. THAT's why I am happily continuing this discussion. It serves a purpose relative to this forum.

LOL.

you really don't read well. i mentioned airlift as a constrast. it's you who isn't understanding.

nor do you understand the case manufactures make what sell, not whats best. or do you have an explanation on why they slapped a piece of glass just millimeters away from the front fans? (on the OPs case) and you act like reviewers don't criticizes such.

spoiler alert you see front rgb fans but not the ones on the back.

 

[cadaveca]

LOL.

you really don't read well. i mentioned airlift as a constrast. it's you who isn't understanding.

nor do you understand the case manufactures make what sell, not whats best. or do you have an explanation on why they slapped a piece of glass just millimeters away from the front fans? (on the OPs case) and you act like reviewers don't criticizes such.

Not really. if that was the case, why mention Bernoulli at all?

Uh, I AM a reviewer. Take a look at the last 8+ years of memory and motherboard reviews posted to the front page here, and look at who is the author. That's why it says staff under my name... I'm not forum staff. I'm one of the few reviewers that has a love for gaming stuff instead of overclocking (that sells well) and RGB lighting (again, it sells well), contrary to popular forum postings. I have a pretty good understanding of all that stuff. I may have helped make it what it is today, in fact.

I like stuff that sells well because it grows our hobby, and allows for more revenue for these companies, so they can design better stuff for us to use. Because of this, my opinion on some things often contradicts what other reviewers think... but that's cool.

Well, actually, I don't do reviews any more. I let some younger guys take over my duties here. It's been a bit over a month since I retired from reviews.

Positive pressure helps keep dust out of the inside of our cases, and because of Bernoulli's principle, the air, while slowed inside the case, does exit at the same speed it entered, if not faster, in most cases. The restriction of the openings on a case ensures this. This is also why large-scale HVAC installs start with big thick vents, and end up with tiny ones.. to keep the air flow constant. The restriction of the vent piping to smaller sizes as you get further away from the fans that blow IN increases the pressure of the airflow, making it move faster.

So you can have three fans on front, and the air, if only exiting out the rear (assuming no vents up top), will leave the case faster than it came in from one of those fans.

Case manufacturers make cases with fans as intake only as this adds fresh air into the case and BLOWS it over things inside the case, rather than SUCKING the air out, from relatively random places. The glass in front of a fan doesn't really affect this, and the glass in front actually limits the dust intake and helps speed the air to the fans. Again, this is something you can calculate with Bernoulli's principle. If you want to lower temps, you add in MORE intake fans, providing MORE cool air, not adding exhaust fans.

The OP mentioned the side of his case was warm to the touch.. this isn't because there is too much hot air in the case.. that's because his GPU fan is blowing directly onto the side of the case, heating the glass/plastic/metal directly. it should then reflect off the side of the case, and thanks to that positive pressure, get ejected out the open rear openings over the PCIe slots and the rear fan hole. Adding a fan to the rear of the case will only lower noise a wee bit, but since it WON'T be adding fresh air in the case, and since it is likely NOT going to draw out as much air as the THREE fans up front, isn't really going to helps temperatures in a meaningful way.. in fact, hot air deflecting off the frame of the fan is most likely going to end up getting drawn into the CPU cooler, and might INCREASE CPU temps.

 

[eidairaman1]

 

[looniam]

Not really. if that was the case, why mention Bernoulli at all?

Uh, I AM a reviewer. Take a look at the last 8+ years of memory and motherboard reviews posted to the front page here, and look at who is the author. That's why it says staff under my name... I'm not forum staff. I'm one of the few reviewers that has a love for gaming stuff instead of overclocking (that sells well) and RGB lighting (again, it sells well), contrary to popular forum postings. I have a pretty good understanding of all that stuff. I may have helped make it what it is today, in fact.

Well, actually, I don't do reviews any more. I let some younger guys take over my duties here.

yes i know who you are, don't assume i don't. however you don't/haven't done case reviews so your work here, though appreciated, isn't relevant.

Positive pressure helps keep dust out of the inside of our cases, and because of Bernoulli's principle, the air, while slowed inside the case, does exit at the same speed it entered, if not faster, in most cases. The restriction of the openings on a case ensures this. This is also why large-scale HVAC installs start with big thick vents, and end up with tiny ones.. to keep the air flow constant. The restriction of the vent piping to smaller sizes as you get further away from the fans that blow IN increases the pressure of the airflow, making it move faster.

yes yes yes, but you still refuse to see that a case is not a closed venting systems. you acknowledge that below but yet don't understand how it makes a difference in your examples.

So you can have three fans on front, and the air, if only exiting out the rear (assuming no vents up top), will leave the case faster than it came in from one of those fans.

Case manufacturers make cases with fans as intake only as this adds fresh air into the case and BLOWS it over things inside the case, rather than SUCKING the air out, from relatively random places. The glass in front of a fan doesn't really affect this, and the glass in front actually limits the dust intake and helps speed the air to the fans. Again, this is something you can calculate with Bernoulli's principle.

The OP mentioned the side of his case was warm to the touch.. this isn't because there is too much how air in the case.. that's because his GPU fan is blowing directly onto the side of the case, heating the glass/plastic/metal directly. it should then reflect off the side of the case, and thanks to that positive pressure, get ejected out the open rear openings over the PCIe slots and the rear fan hole. Adding a fan to the rear of the case will only lower noise a wee bit, but since it WON'T be adding fresh air in the case, and since it is likely NOT going to draw out as much air as the THREE fans up front, isn't really going to helps temperatures is a meaningful way.. in fact, hot air deflecting off the frame of the fan is most likely going to end up getting drawn into the CPU cooler, and might INCREASE CPU temps.

and you are completely ignoring thermal dynamic 101. you efficiently cool down a component by removing the heat. i have posted several real world examples of it, but because you know what you know; you refuse to consider any other source from a web site or forum with testing and data results. hell eidairaman1 just posted a vid as i am typing. and about the OP's GPU, not *a lot* of hot air comes off the top - facing the glass. a surprising amount of heat blows down on to the mother board. - breadboard mtx motherboard with a gpu and see for yourself.

reminds me of:

Contempt prior to examination is an intellectual vice, from which the greatest faculties of mind are not free.

and with that i wish you a happy canadian thanksgiving and bid you adieu.

 

[cadaveca]

and you are completely ignoring thermal dynamic 101. you efficiently cool down a component by removing the heat. i have posted several real world examples of it, but because you know what you know; you refuse to consider any other source from a web site or forum with testing and data results. hell eidairaman1 just posted a vid as i am typing. and about the OP's GPU, noit a lot of hot air comes off the top - facing the glass. a surprising amount of heat blows down on to the mother board. - breadboard on a mtx motherboard and see for yourself.

I don't discount data... I discount data given by people who don't understand the data they generate, and then people who also don't understand regurgitating that bad info.

Well, you know, that video says nothing that agrees with either of is. It's pretty neutral. Good video though.


As to your comment about the videocard, you should try using a fog machine like in that video and see where the air really goes. I have already done this. With "vapes" being easily available, you can get a "fog machine" pretty cheaply these days... just needs an 18650 battery or two and a custom coil. Anyway the air ends up against the motherboard, as well as out the other side, against the side of the case. it spreads out a bit more on the non-board side because there are commonly heatpipes dispersing the airflow, so it may not seem as much as it really is since its split by the heatpipes.

and with that i wish you a happy canadian thanksgiving and bid you adieu.

Thanks! It's one filled with snow. but that's cool with me.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.
Isnt it lovely to be a fan?

All things being equal, its always best to keep it simple. Fans inside a case are used to direct airflow much like a cop directing traffic. A fan exhausting out the top will change the direction flow compared to the fan exhausting out the rear.

The Navy taught HVAC, that heat is not removed, its transferred. Principles are the same as for a "blackshoe" (those that worked below deck ) boiler tech, but the practices are not. Watching this thread argue about which of the two different applications of thermal-dynamics really is hilarious.

The best practice is still, K.I.S.S., Keep it simple stupid.

 

[Jetster]

http://www.scienceclarified.com/eve...ol-3-Physics-Vol-1/Bernoulli-s-Principle.html

This used the example of an aircraft wing and a shower curtain