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Crappy VRMs on B350s, few X370s as well - inadvisable Ryzen 7 overclocking over 1.32-1.35V

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#76
I stopped using MSI years ago after a horrible experience with a shitty but expensive board, and 4 or 5 dead Northbridge HS/F combos.
Same and I do feel that their Bios could be better if you do enjoy overclocking.
For the M.2 killing with Asrock boards, sounds nonsense, I had several gen of their motherboards, almost always using M.2 and not a single one died on me and these machines actually run almost all day long.

Now, for the issue of VRMs, I think if you overclock you should do a bit of research and know that you should opt for a better X370 like the Taichi or Crosshair if you have a high end R7 Ryzen CPU.
If you are running stock, "most" of the B350's will do fine with any Ryzen CPU, they have to, otherwise they wouldn't pass the QC.
 

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#77
If anyone is concerned about vrms, add hestsinks and a fan to them...

Fyi AMD parts are comfortable with 1.3-1.6Vcore.
 
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#78
No, you shouldn't add heatsinks and fans to them, if they're marketed as oc mobos for am4 ,8 cores included, they should be able to do so within the accepted voltages without blowing up.

And no, you should do your research if you want to achieve the best oc possible due to features, better power delivery etc. Regardless of research or not, if a b350 supports ocing an 8 core, as long as its not extreme voltages, it should do so and that's it. The degree of oc headroom opts for research ,that's luxury, but if it supports oc for an 8 core and its a respectable company , I don't need to do a research to make sure my vrm doesn't turn into ash at 1,4 volts
 
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#79
It's why I've sticked 2x 40mm fans on my X99, one on VRM heatsink and one on mosfets heatsink on the other side of the board. Just to be sure, even thoguh they supposedly aren't required.
 
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#80
Just making sure there is minimal airflow over the VRMs can significantly lower the risk of them blowing up , no matter the quality or how much current you push through them.
 
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#81
Just making sure there is minimal airflow over the VRMs can significantly lower the risk of them blowing up , no matter the quality or how much current you push through them.
But that's the thing , the b350 issues happens with normal minima airflow. Even cases with 1-2 front intakes and 1 exhaust (typical closed case scenario) has issues...its very simple , the vrms are too crappy, and the heatsinks are junk as well , that's why an 8 core is just too much for them, hence they shouldn't be marketed as oc supported for it. Some of them even running the risk of overheating running an 8 core at stock. Put a 1.45v oc on the Asus c6h for example, with minimal airflow, and see how the vrm temps are still good, simply a matter of the quality of components. You can't promise x and not deliver it, not companies in the caliber of the big mobo manufacturers.
 
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#82
Minimal airflow directly over the VRMs , not indirect airflow. The VRM spot is pretty much dead in terms of airflow even with a ton of case fans unless you have a top-down type CPU cooler.
 
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#83
It doesn't matter, you shouldn't add any addition, you shouldn't add any airflow over the vrm, again, this should be suitable for the most standard case airflow scheme. I shouldn't add even a single fan blade over the vrm to prevent it from burning itself, I don't care how much even just by blowing on them with my mouth I can cool them (like buildzoid did). The vrms can and should manage with the most minimal and standard case airflow scheme , and with an aio and not a vertically diracted fan, as is definitely heppening when the vrms are of higher quality as well as the heatsink. If it was like you said, it wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. The solution is easy, we all know it, its not that, its the fact the problem is there to begin with , when it shouldn't .
 
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#84
Wow, okay Guys. No. Don't ever add extra cooling to your systems. It's obviously really bad.
 
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#85
Yeah, let's take what I said, add a nonexistent subtext , and twist it around. You're right, were all just anti cooling dudes, including me, a guy with a midi tower packed with 5 case fans.
I guess were all just dumb, hell why it was even a massively reported issue? Why it was heavily criticized? We're all just crybabies, there's obviously nothing wrong here at all. You wanna put a bandaid on the shitty parts some reputable companies sell and pretend all is good? Good for you. I don't.
 
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#86
Perhaps word your sentences better if your going to come here and give folks your scolding and attitudes. It woks much better when you communicate properly

Cool. Well, stop giving bad advice and we won't have a problem. "You shouldn't" and "You shouldn't have to" are two different things.
 

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#87
Please stick to the topic at hand. If you have personal issues with someone in the thread, feel free to take them to PMs. ;)

On the topic of the thread, marketing hype is marketing hype! It is easy to state any motherboard is overclockable, as long as there are options to do so! Whether you use a mid-range board with lower end components is your choice. If issues arise, such as heat, there are two ways to go.... One is to add cooling so that you can achieve the desired result.... Two, sell it off and grab a board that is capable of what you want to do. ;)
 

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#88
vrms are perfectly happy running at 90c 90c is not a problem
once again amature 'enthusiast' talking about stuff they know little to nothing about
120c or so is about when I get worried

most vrms will operate at 100% of there rated current handling capacity at 125c its why vrm's are rated by X AMPS@ Y Temperature

now the colder you run them the longer they will last and the more abuse they will take but no AM4 cpu on the planet is going to peak at even half of the vrms maximum output A try more like 120 or maybe a 140A with the worst 1700x chip you can get thats 4.2Ghz @ 1.45v which if you daily that voltage and aren't under a full custom water block you are asking for it

yes the most of the x3xx vrm's aren't overbuilt 90% efficiency monsters .. they don't need to be in the worst case you are nowhere close to blowing it up

you wanna know what the vrm is really rated for there are numbers on them read and google the datasheets are usually freely available

now if they are 80C vrms and there isn't many of those out there and they would be flat stupid to use them I would be a tempted to stick a heatsink to them
 
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#89
I agree , but unfortunately, most b350's , If you oc an 8 core on them with 1.385-1.41v , which is perfectly reasonable to use for 24/7 usage with a good CPU cooler to hit that 3.9-4.0ghz , will run over 100c, sometimes over 110c on the vrm when running at full load and plateauing the temp, that's if you use an aio for example so you don't have a good airflow over the vrm. Now while the MOSFETs will be fine I agree, the problem is the capacitors , which are rated for lower temps (105ish c), usually around 5k hours on those mobos....it means you can kill your capacitors in less than a year with those settings when running full load of course, which most def sucks. And yes, strapping a fan on the vrm pretty much solves it, its just frustrating to me I have to do it for something which should be rated for it by the manufacturer.
 
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#90
Hmmm. I'm starting to think that old-school cases, with a fan over the CPU area, might come back into style with the rise of AIO CLCs.
 
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#91
Finding this thread rather interesting.. Something to definitely think of when buying my first Ryzen setup....
 
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#92
Finding this thread rather interesting.. Something to definitely think of when buying my first Ryzen setup....
Most def.
If you buy a 4-6 core its not really an issue with normal case airflow.
If you pair a b350 with a ryzen 7, either mount a fan on the vrm, which IMO is the easiest and cheapest (although annoying ), or just buy a decent x370 with good vrms and a good heatsink.
 
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#93
Well if I know what the good boards are, I'd buy them anyway!! :) I don't think buying cheap is always the best option...

Was very excited about the MSI Titanium was on offer on a website but to hear its got poor VRM cooling is sadly a bit of a put off :(
 
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#94
Nothing new from amd boards honestly. It has been like this for ages. At least now its not like 3 boards 'really' handle overclocking, but there is still a concern.

X299 has this issue as well depending...
 
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#95
I agree , but unfortunately, most b350's , If you oc an 8 core on them with 1.385-1.41v , which is perfectly reasonable to use for 24/7 usage with a good CPU cooler to hit that 3.9-4.0ghz , will run over 100c, sometimes over 110c on the vrm when running at full load and plateauing the temp, that's if you use an aio for example so you don't have a good airflow over the vrm. Now while the MOSFETs will be fine I agree, the problem is the capacitors , which are rated for lower temps (105ish c), usually around 5k hours on those mobos....it means you can kill your capacitors in less than a year with those settings when running full load of course, which most def sucks. And yes, strapping a fan on the vrm pretty much solves it, its just frustrating to me I have to do it for something which should be rated for it by the manufacturer.
the caps are never going to get that hot they might see 75-80c if the vrms are maxed out with no airflow not even convection

110c is still 15c away from there maximum operating temp

to date nobody has killed there caps or there vrms on any of these boards ... if what you said was true people would have a bunch of blown up boards by now

even a 3+1 phase is going to handel 200A@125c a 1800x at full burn only draws 120A
 
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#96
even a 3+1 phase is going to handel 200A@125c a 1800x at full burn only draws 120A
If it were only that easy... :(

If it is as simple as that, why did we see 50% of boards that 'supported' bulldozer, etc throttle when an FX8370 was in there? I don't get the sensationalism as its being presented either, but, this is a real issue regardless if things go 'boom' or not.
 

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#97
If it were only that easy... :(

If it is as simple as that, why did we see 50% of boards that 'supported' bulldozer, etc throttle when an FX8370 was in there? I don't get the sensationalism as its being presented either, but, this is a real issue regardless if things go 'boom' or not.
FX is a completely different beast tho it draws a shit ton of amps
this is not the case with ryzen
 
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#98
Then why are there issues?
 
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#99
I have long ago learned that choosing PC components by "brand" is a fool's errand. Example .... which is true ?

a) Corsair makes great PSUs
b) Corsair makes good PSUs
c) Corsair makes average PSUs
d) Corsair makes crappy PSUs

It's a double trick question because 1) Corsair doesn't **make** any PSUs, the buy from OEMs and 2) Corsair sells all of the above. For another example, pop over to the failure database over at storagereview.com and you see that Seagate made the most reliable model HD ever and the least reliable HD ever. Also, over time, companies have changed their market focus as margins take priority over quality. Asus created Asrock cause they wanted to build cheap MoBos for the builder market w/o compromising the quality enthusiast reputation. After spinning it off to an independent company, AsRock's's reputation for thin warped boards, leaking caps and 1 / 2 year warrantees became a thing of the past.

After being an almost exclusively Asus shop for a dozen years, we started to see problems in reviews, our own experiences , component selection and Tech Support with MoBos and GFX cards starting in the Z87 era. Started using a mix of boards and use experiences were better overall with MSI and Gigabyte. When Z170 rolled around, one thing that is much easier to determine os the audio solution. Almost all boards from Asus under $150 were using ALC887 or 892 wheras MSI and Gigabyte were providing ALC1150. And by the time you upped ya budget to get ALC 1150, it took the cost advantage of H or B series MoBo off the table. Starting with Z270 generation.the other manufacturers started following suit. So, by the time you get a board with an acceptable audio solution, power deliver system / VRMs, the cost advantage of Ryzen and / or non k processors MoBo / CPU combos pretty much evaporates.

If you look at RMA rates for just about any component, they are all usually perty close. But if you look at individual models, RMA rates vary wildly. Overall failure rates last period (2017-08-01) among the Big 4 ranged only from 1.43% to 1.63% . Asus had the lowest overall failure rate but had the two boards with the highest % of failures. For Z170 / Z270 boards, the failure rates were:

1,41% MSI
1,63% ASUS
1,97% Gigabyte
2,94% ASRock

Boards w/ > 2% failure rate included:

5,71% ASUS Z170I-PRO Gaming
5,59% ASUS X99 Strix Gaming

4,70% MSI B150M PRO-VDH D3
4,17% ASUS B150I PRO GAMING/WIFI/AURA
3,81% ASRock FM2A58M-VG3+
3,45% MSI X99A Gaming 7
3,17% ASUS X99-A II

2,23% MSI Z170A Gaming M3
2,19% ASUS Z170-A
2,08% GIGABYTE GA-Z170XP-SLI

Other than model specific differences like componentry and failure rate, for the most part performance is on par with few exceptions ... Factors which are pretty much "brand" other than "model" specific are a) BIOS .... preferences will depend on what you are used to and Asus maintains the lead here to my eyes by a hair over MSI ... Gigabyte is a bit back from there. And b) Tech Support wise, I have had the best experiences last 4 years with Giga, followed closely by MSI with Asus trailing quite a bit behind (waiting 3 months for a warranty replacement and a promised BIOS fix that never came along, among others).

Our current recommended budget system includes as options the $119 MSI Z370 SLI Plus (10 Power Phases / ALC 1220) and, if user has Giga preference, the Gigabyte equivalent Z370XP SLI ($134).
 
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Your explanations can be half as long as still accomplish the same thing.. but I have to say thanks to this dissertation. :)

Just wish it mentioned AMD... not intel since this thread is about AMD, LOL!
 
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