Critique a new Build...

[xazraelx]

Okay, well, it's finally about time for me to build a new computer. I'm looking for the $900 dollar range, as a preface, though a little more wouldn't kill me, but I'd like to stay around $900. This computer will be used for mediocre gaming, (Ie, possibly Warhammer Online, Starcraft II, maybe WoW if I get back into it haha), light photoshop, and schoolwork. That's all.

Processor: E6750 - I've pretty much decided on the core 2 duo instead of the quad because I can't seem to believe that I will need the multi-processing powers of the quad. If someone disagrees, please tell me
Intel Core 2 Dua E6750 Conroe
Motherboard: I can't decide on this one, so I'll inform of what I need. I use an external 500 gig hdd, so I need a firewire connection, which I notice many are lacking. Other than that, it needs to be capable of stable overclocks and have at least 4 USB ports, and in addition have one IDE cable - for my old Plextor DVD burner I have
I was looking at the GA-P35-DS4, though it's a tad expensive.
GA-P35-DS4
My other "options" that I was looking at are:
MSI P6N Platinum
Another pricey EVGA board
Power Supply: OCZ 600W
RAM:
GSkill 2x1GB DDR2 800 RAM
Media Card Reader :
Simple Media Card Reader
HDD: In a toss-up:
Seagate 320GB Sata Cuda
Or
Western Digital Caviar
Dvd Writer: Never in my life used Lightscribe, so...
Simple Cheap Samsung

Yes, yes, I know, I'm missing the graphics card and the case. I think, unless someone advises against it, I'm going to settle with the 8800GT when it comes out.

As for cases, I haven't a clue - not too big on the blue lighting that comes on 90% of them (I prefer red), but I do enjoy "seeing" my computer. However, air efficiency comes above all.

In addition, I have to ask - should I wait until Cyber Monday to start ordering? Do companies such as Newegg have "cyber monday" sales on their products, or should I go ahead and order it after I'm done having the professionals tear it apart

Thanks,

Will

 

[Sovereign]

AMD will launch the first Phenom-based CPUs on November 20th this year.

T-Minus 3+ weeks...

 

[panchoman]

first off, welcome to the forums

for the mobo, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050 same gigabyte quality as the one you were considering, just a bit trimmed down. x-fire on the mobo isn't really work it, its going to be x16/x4 so yeah.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148144
65 bucks for handpicked micron d9 chips with LEDS cant beat that..

i'd have to say go with seagate for the hdd. not must of a difference really.

psu, dvd burner, looks good. as for case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138
very good airflow, nice and simple but very well made and worth the money if you can afford it.

and as for the dual/quad core, it'd say getting a 45nm intel or the phenom is a good way to futureproof your system as more and more multi threaded software are coming out and people say that quad core is a must for gamers.

 

[OrbitzXT]

I've pretty much decided on the core 2 duo instead of the quad because I can't seem to believe that I will need the multi-processing powers of the quad.

Crysis will be something like 20% faster in 64-bit operating systems with quad cores over dual cores, I imagine newer games coming out in the future will follow along with this. Also not to hijack the thread, but when is the 8800GT coming out? I intend to sell my GTX and get the GT.

 

[xazraelx]

Sovereign: I've always been an AMD fanboy up until a couple months ago when I started helping my friend build a new computer. The charts were all pointing to Intel then, and yes, I was disappointed Are there any reviews/charts/numbers on this new processor you speak of? Might be worth waiting three weeks for

Panchoman: Thanks for the welcome and the heads up on the RAM. Definitely getting those instead. I also saw the motherboard you picked out, the other gigabyte, but it doesn't have any firewire ports on it, so it's a no-go I like my external HDD too much. And I whistled at the case. Quite expensive, but it looks to be worth it. I'm aiming for 115 or less on the case, but it all depends on the budget...but that case does beg at you, eh.


OrbitzXT: From what I've heard (speculation only), the GT is coming out in ~2-3 weeks. Not sure the validity, but I'm waiting.

For the quad/dual core argument, I read something not too long ago...one second and I'll find it. From memory, it said the quad was better at (obviously) multi-tasking, including photoshop, video editing, etc, etc, but the dual-core was better for straight gaming performance. Not sure the validity, or the time period (which of course affects it), but I'll see.

In addition, I'm looking at getting Windows Vista. Of course, it will have to be thoroughly torn apart to become less of a hog, but I've read and heard good things about it after you clean it up. Any thoughts?

Edit: Here's one of the reviews I've seen in the past. Tell me what you think:
Quad vs Dual performance

 

[panchoman]

well for quad/dual the quad will perform better in games, most all of the new games are multi threaded, meaning that they'll use all 4 cores, which will result in better phsyics and stuff you know. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E16819115003,N82E16819115028,N82E16819115017\

the q6600 is 50 bucks more then the e6600.. i would definently pay the 50 bucks extra for my high end system cause it'd give me ideally double the processing power and also my system to be ideally double the speed you know.

as for the phenoms and the 45nm intel's both are coming out in the next month or so and then we'll have benchies and all, i suggest you wait for the new chipsets, grafix cards, and cpu's that are coming out. many of us are holding back for em.

as for the case, yeah the cosmos is sweet but expensive, just like the stacker 832. maybe http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146029&Tpk=NZXT+zero ? has loads of fans for great performance,etc.etc. there's also the lexa blackline if you want the red them: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146038

as for mobo, i guess you gotta get the more expensive gigabyte then or another p35 board thats good (asus)

 

[xazraelx]

Most tests I've seen, the dual core out-performs the quad core when we're strictly talking gaming. However, I understand your point about new games being designed to run under a multi-core atmosphere, and thus being able to run faster. Therefore, I am seriously considering going with the quad core over the dual.

These new processors you speak of coming out, I'm assuming they're going to be the "new thing." However, with technology, the new thing is typically expensive, and we must remember that I am trying to stay around or under $900. So, while the "new things" coming out may be the best, will they be the best for the monetary value? Or are you telling me to wait for them to come out in order for the prices to drop on the current technology? The 8800GT, if it performs near as well as it did in the tests, and comes out for ~240-260, of course will be. But I must ask about the rest. Sure, I could wait and find out, but it's quite frustrating not having my computer, and every day that passes the itch grows stronger. I could make do for a little while with a $30 graphics card waiting for the 8800GT, I'm just having a tough time deciding whether a month (possibly more...ugh) of waiting is worth whatever is coming out (which I still haven't heard too much about....I'm about to go eat, I guess I'll look them up when I get back)

The cases you pointed out are a little much for a budget gaming computer, in my opinion. I know the values of good cooling, but I believe I will find a deal, or one will go on sale somewhat soon.

I'm not disregarding anything stated in this thread, I appreciate all the input thus far, I'm just still up in the air.

 

[panchoman]

as for the processors, we'll see what happens with the new ones, but for now, stickwith the q6600 i say. as for the performance, perhaps single core games might've performed slightly better on dual cores, new games are multi threaded so you're better off getting a quad.

 

[xazraelx]

So this is what I'm looking at so far: I also have some dilemma questions at the bottom of the page.

Processor: E6750 or Q6600
E6750
Q6600

Motherboard: Either the gigabyte or EVGA
GA-P35-DS4
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1

Power Supply: Either the 520W or 620W, pros/cons?
520W Corsair
620W Corsair

RAM:
Crucial 2x 1GB DDR2 800
Media Card Reader :
Simple Media Card Reader

HDD:
Seagate 320GB Cuda

Dvd Writer:
Simple Cheap Samsung

Case:
Case
I kind of prefer side panel windows, so this is extremely tentative...just picked one for now.

Graphics Card:
8800GT (when it comes out)

Here comes the inevitable questions. Dual core vs Quad core. No clue, it's such a toss up. The market seems to be going toward multiprocessing capabilities, so the quad is more appealing, but is it worth $100? for the Q6600 over the E6750? That's the main question I'm dealing with.
Motherboard: EVGA or Gigabyte? Pros/Cons of each?

Thanks for all the help guys,

William

Oh, and I saw the release dates for the new core 2 duos and most of the quads..I can't wait until January =/ Sorry.

 

[ex_reven]

as for the processors, we'll see what happens with the new ones, but for now, stickwith the q6600 i say. as for the performance, perhaps single core games might've performed slightly better on dual cores, new games are multi threaded so you're better off getting a quad.

Second that.
Quad core has reached its heyday

Spend just a bit extra and also get another of those 7200.10 drives and set up RAID 0. You will NOT be dissapointed

 

[twicksisted]

hey man... i was at a similar stage a month back...
was looking at that gigabyte board aswell...

decided to go with the asus P5K-E and am glad that i did...
8-phase power (important for stable overclocking with a quad)

i still have a retail fan on my Q6600 and it will overclock on auto settings in the bios to 3.6ghz... (just by upping the fsb and leaving everything else on auto! easy as pie) stably enough to run a 3Dmark 06 test and more (though i changed it back down to 333fsb (3ghz) till i get a decent cooler just to be on the safe side as speedfan was reading 27c on the cpu as its temp which must have been wrong!

i would strongly suggest getting a mobo with 8 phase power if you go quad and want to overclock it.

Also i found that at stock my E6600 was quicker than my Q6600.... but overclocked the Q6600 pissed all over it so if you not gonna overclock then perhaps the E6700 is gonna give you better performance in todays terms in XP just cause of the higher speed.

 

[twicksisted]

also just to make it more difficult for you i decided to post this up

 

[Atnevon]

I found these articles when looking around:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/463

It reviews the 6750 and the 6700, and a few more on this level. I saw the conclusion, and will leave the ending and article to find the info you will need.

Also, I think this case will be great for you:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112025

The Lian Li are great. Aluminum=light as hell to tote around when you need. Nobody hasn't mentioned the accesories for Lian Li outside of newegg. If you want a side window, they have them around the net for 30 bucks or less. Google my friend can turn up many retailers.

Hate to burst a heart set bubble, but a good discussion of this I think is in set. Not like your playing WoW and Halo the same time right?

 

[Atnevon]

To lazy for an edit. THis deserves a new reply:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029

vs....


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115002


Good luck choosing. It could be a while...

 

[ex_reven]

The Lian Li are great. Aluminum=light as hell to tote around when you need.

Aluminium isnt that light. Especially when you fill it wit hardware. Thats the reason lots of Lian Li cases have wheels. Also, my case is all aluminium and it weighs in at about 30kg, thats hardly portable lol. Its like a bag of cement

EDIT - Then again, I guess the thickness of the aluminium must be considered.

 

[panchoman]

To lazy for an edit. THis deserves a new reply:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029

vs....


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115002


Good luck choosing. It could be a while...

6750 all the way!!!!!!! hands down. 6750 has the g0 stepping which means that your cpu will run cooler, allowing you to oc more

 

[xazraelx]

6750 all the way!!!!!!! hands down. 6750 has the g0 stepping which means that your cpu will run cooler, allowing you to oc more

I will be keeping it around 3.0...though I want to see how far I can push it (incl test #s) just to amuse myself before I keep it there.

Hopefully the 8800GT won't be a disappointment

 

[OrbitzXT]

I honestly don't see the point in getting outdated technology. All of the games in which the dual core outperforms quad core, are older games that your rig is going to have absolutely no issues running what so ever while using a lower clock quad core. This is a quote from the Crysis System Requirements wiki...

Crysis takes advantage of 64-bit processors although only by using a 64-bit operating system such as Windows XP Pro 64-bit edition or Windows Vista 64-bit edition. According to Cevat Yerli, Crysis will have a 10-15% performance increase per thread running in 64-bit. Thus a dual core processor will run 20-30% faster than a single and a quad will run 40-60% faster than a single.

Source

So why are you preparing your rig to run faster in games that will already be fast, when you should be doing as much futureproofing as you can. Even if you don't intend to play Crysis and have no interest in it, this is the future of gaming, 4+ cores are going to be the norm soon, and game developers will make use of it. With a G0 Q6600 you can still get a relatively easy 3GHz overclock (333*9). I also can't find the benchmark right now, but I know I saw one where a Q6600 was beating the E6850 in a good number of the benchmarks.

Again, do what you want...its your money and computer, but I see no reason to stick with dual cores.

 

[niko084]

Quad cores eat up dual cores even in gaming... Period... There is no comparison when they are clocked the same.
And yes even with a game only programmed to use 1 core. Because you are ALWAYS multitasking even in the littlest ways.
What could be causing quad core fall in performance is the game changing cores too much, if you know the game only uses 1 or 2, just set its affinity to 1-2 cores.

If you are not a hard core gamer and always buying the newest stuff, honestly a e6750 is a great chip by all means, q6600 is also a great chip but costs quite a bit more.

I would say if you want a 8800gt, you will seriously want the 620 watt psu, and yes the corsair psu is a great one.

Go with the seagate drive, they are much faster than the current WDs.

Mainboard, you can look at the Abit IP-35 also, same price area, a good mobo.

Ram looks good.

 

[xazraelx]

Honestly, I don't buy many video games. The only thing it will be used for is Warhammer Online, WoW, and Starcraft II. Dual core does outperform Quad core in single core games, I've seen too many tests to say otherwise. In multiprocessing games, yes, the quad is better. But a year from now, when more are available, who's to say I can just get the Q6850 and drop it in - it's completely compatible. My point is I could spend an extra $100 now for a year in advance, or spend $180 now and maybe another $200 in a year if I feel that I am falling behind. That is my reasoning behind the dual over the quad.

The 8800GT uses half the power that the GTS/GTX does...I'll still want the 620W over the 520W? I don't mind spending the extra money here if it's needed, just wondering if it is?

 

[panchoman]

I will be keeping it around 3.0...though I want to see how far I can push it (incl test #s) just to amuse myself before I keep it there.

Hopefully the 8800GT won't be a disappointment

you might be able to get 4.0, cause people are getting 3.8 on air with the g0 q6600.

 

[Atnevon]

you might be able to get 4.0, cause people are getting 3.8 on air with the g0 q6600.

These people also get new parts every year or so. I personally hope to use mine for about 3 years or so before I get a new one. If you want the most and can get it, its cool. But overclocking is putting your parts to a place they were not deisgned to run at. Yes, it can be done, and be done well. But your buiding more heat, more electricity, and wear your parts down more.

I am going by the assumption that people to buy often. I personally side with you Azrael on not going above 3.0. To let you know, I'm still stock speeds on my 8800gtx and Q6600. Yet I hold spot 22 on the single Nvidia cards in the 3DMark06 stickiy in software. If I'm at stock, and getting higher scores than someone OCed to 3.6 or so, do you see something strange? OC can be fun, but I don't see much point than to get bragging rights about your machine.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25995

If your compy is running cooler, you'll have longer to wait to OC. Which means you can wait and see what the market will do.

"Just because Halo 3 comes out in a year, doesn't mean you shouldn't ingnore Halo 2"
-An old quote. But kind of my point. Its not like your going to be completly obsolete in 3 years. YOur still going to have a decent machine. Warhammer will work for sure. At least your not getting a shit Dell or store PC. May as well buy an Easybake oven that runs Vista.






EDIT: Guess now that I got done ranting a bit, I think outof all the case you have been looking at, this one seems to be best for you and what you want:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

And just in case (he he, word play is fun) you ever miss your side window:
http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?act=detail&tbcate=65&id=3168

From what I read up, people seem to really like it. Yes it has a LED fan on the front, but it looks like you will have to go fan shopping anyway for the other slots. Hey, it gives you the chance to get the better fans you want. You sound like the kind of guy that wants Red fans too. Just a guess. The case is cheap because it doesn't include fans, thats not a downer as say the case that is smaller, or that has bad fan placement.

And to the guy ready to pounce on me for fan shopping: 3 of these-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999138
is like 3 trips to McDonald's

 

[JousteR]

Quad cores eat up dual cores even in gaming... Period... There is no comparison when they are clocked the same.
And yes even with a game only programmed to use 1 core. Because you are ALWAYS multitasking even in the littlest ways.
What could be causing quad core fall in performance is the game changing cores too much, if you know the game only uses 1 or 2, just set its affinity to 1-2 cores.

If you are not a hard core gamer and always buying the newest stuff, honestly a e6750 is a great chip by all means, q6600 is also a great chip but costs quite a bit more.

I would say if you want a 8800gt, you will seriously want the 620 watt psu, and yes the corsair psu is a great one.

Go with the seagate drive, they are much faster than the current WDs.

Mainboard, you can look at the Abit IP-35 also, same price area, a good mobo.

Ram looks good.

I've posted this a few times hope it helps...Click here..!

The very last summary sort of sums it up..

 

[xazraelx]

What CPU cooling is advised for the E6750? Keep in mind it will be OC'ed.

In addition, is a PCI slot fan worth it for the video card? Or is it one of those functionless things?

Edit: Yes, atnevon, I've decided on that case as well. I just got done reading every review on it -.-
Oh, and it does come with 3x fans, unless I am sorely mistaken. But, from past experience, fans that come with the case don't do quite as well as those bought. I like the ones you linked 78CFM is fun.

 

[Atnevon]

I've posted this a few times hope it helps...Click here..!

The very last summary sort of sums it up..

It does. It really helped my decision over Q or E. I went with Q because, well, I'm a graphic design student, and it helps with Video when I do it, and CS3 applications other than Photoshop. (Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, ect...) I don't care what people think, if you don't do heavy graphic, then the Q (for HERE and NOW) is not for you. the Es will work fine.

And if software is multicore supportive, you have 2. Not 1, but 2. Yes 4 is better in that case, but you have 2. Still works in my book.

Just to let you know Azrael, I debated that CPU heavily as well.