• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Cryptocoin Value and Market Trend Discussion

Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.24/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
bitcoin and eth are now trending gently upwards..

trog
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
2,623 (2.59/day)
System Name daily driver Mac mini M2 Pro
Processor Apple Silicon M2 Pro (6 p-cores, 4 e-cores)
Motherboard Apple proprietary
Cooling Apple proprietary
Memory Apple proprietary 16GB LPDDR5 unified memory
Video Card(s) Apple Silicon M2 Pro (16-core GPU)
Storage Apple proprietary 512GB SSD + various external HDDs
Display(s) LG 27UL850W (4K@60Hz IPS)
Case Apple proprietary
Audio Device(s) Apple proprietary
Power Supply Apple proprietary
Mouse Apple Magic Trackpad 2
Keyboard Keychron K1 tenkeyless (Gateron Reds)
Software macOS Ventura 13 (including latest patches)
Benchmark Scores (My Windows daily driver is a Beelink Mini S12. I'm not interested in benchmarking.)
Remember, Bitcoin came out at the same time as Apple's "App store", in the winter of 2008/2009.

This isn't a "new technology" any more. We've had 13+ years of Bitcoin, trying to find a good use of it.

Bitcoin, Ethereum and a few other crypto tokens (I don't like calling them crypto currencies) have been accepted as valid payment by some merchants although support has fluctuated on and off over the years (Tesla Motors stopped doing this for example).

The far more interesting aspect has been the blockchain technology itself -- not crypto tokens as an end product.

Crypto tokens are here to stay although hopefully proof-of-work mining's heyday is over.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,517 (1.75/day)
bitcoin and eth are now trending gently upwards..

trog

Honestly, its all sideways to me. Its been in and around $20,000 for BTC for months.

ETH is more volatile, and I can say that ETH is moving. I dunno which direction, but its moving somewhere.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
2,623 (2.59/day)
System Name daily driver Mac mini M2 Pro
Processor Apple Silicon M2 Pro (6 p-cores, 4 e-cores)
Motherboard Apple proprietary
Cooling Apple proprietary
Memory Apple proprietary 16GB LPDDR5 unified memory
Video Card(s) Apple Silicon M2 Pro (16-core GPU)
Storage Apple proprietary 512GB SSD + various external HDDs
Display(s) LG 27UL850W (4K@60Hz IPS)
Case Apple proprietary
Audio Device(s) Apple proprietary
Power Supply Apple proprietary
Mouse Apple Magic Trackpad 2
Keyboard Keychron K1 tenkeyless (Gateron Reds)
Software macOS Ventura 13 (including latest patches)
Benchmark Scores (My Windows daily driver is a Beelink Mini S12. I'm not interested in benchmarking.)
Honestly, its all sideways to me. Its been in and around $20,000 for BTC for months.

ETH is more volatile, and I can say that ETH is moving. I dunno which direction, but its moving somewhere.

As always, it depends on what timeframe you are looking at. ETH is going up if you look at the last 24 hours. ETH is going down if you look at the last year.


eth-usd-2022.09.17.jpg


None of the three technical indicators here (Bollinger Bands, RSI, and MACD) show anything resembling an imminent change of direction from ETH. Volatility is pretty low (per Bollinger Band width) and there is very little trend or momentum (the two MACD signals are hovering around the zero baseline).

The 24 hour graph is relevant for day traders. A 1 year graph is more suitable for people who are planning to buy and hold for several weeks/month. A 5 year timeframe is more suitable for those who plan to buy and hold for the long-term (>1 year).

Quick, what has been the better crypto investment over the past year: BTC or ETH?


btc-eth-brk-b-2022.09.17.jpg


Answer: neither!

BTC (blue) and ETH (green) have the same equally terrible ROI over the past twelve months although the latter was expectedly more volatile.

For giggles, I've included Class B shares of Berkshire-Hathaway (BRK-B in red) as a comparison.

Enjoy!
 
Last edited:

phill

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
15,861 (3.39/day)
Location
Somerset, UK
System Name Not so complete or overkill - There are others!! Just no room to put! :D
Processor Ryzen Threadripper 3970X
Motherboard Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha
Cooling Lots!! Dual GTX 560 rads with D5 pumps for each rad. One rad for each component
Memory Viper Steel 4 x 16GB DDR4 3600MHz not sure on the timings... Probably still at 2667!! :(
Video Card(s) Asus Strix 3090 with front and rear active full cover water blocks
Storage I'm bound to forget something here - 250GB OS, 2 x 1TB NVME, 2 x 1TB SSD, 4TB SSD, 2 x 8TB HD etc...
Display(s) 3 x Dell 27" S2721DGFA @ 7680 x 1440P @ 144Hz or 165Hz - working on it!!
Case The big Thermaltake that looks like a Case Mods
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA 1600W T2
Mouse Corsair thingy
Keyboard Razer something or other....
VR HMD No headset yet
Software Windows 11 OS... Not a fan!!
Benchmark Scores I've actually never benched it!! Too busy with WCG and FAH and not gaming! :( :( Not OC'd it!! :(
Gave up mining ages ago, I think when our first price increase for the electric came in, I just thought nope, no point and cut losses but kept the hardware I had running. Things been heading down hill for a while so now I just use what I have currently for folding or crunching, depends what rig does what.

I think Proof of Stake made things impossible and with the electric just going up and up here, your just wasting electric and not gaining anything back. In the US its different because of the majority having cheap electric in comparison. I think the new price cap here is about £0.35 a unit for electric and about £0.12 for gas possibly? No good at all for mining, even with solar panels :(
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
In the US its different because of the majority having cheap electric in comparison.
It's not cheap enough to be of any profit to be worth it to continue mining. When the gain is $0.04 per day and dropping & rates around $0.26 per kilowatt hour(generally), the cost far over-shadows the gain.
 

phill

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
15,861 (3.39/day)
Location
Somerset, UK
System Name Not so complete or overkill - There are others!! Just no room to put! :D
Processor Ryzen Threadripper 3970X
Motherboard Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha
Cooling Lots!! Dual GTX 560 rads with D5 pumps for each rad. One rad for each component
Memory Viper Steel 4 x 16GB DDR4 3600MHz not sure on the timings... Probably still at 2667!! :(
Video Card(s) Asus Strix 3090 with front and rear active full cover water blocks
Storage I'm bound to forget something here - 250GB OS, 2 x 1TB NVME, 2 x 1TB SSD, 4TB SSD, 2 x 8TB HD etc...
Display(s) 3 x Dell 27" S2721DGFA @ 7680 x 1440P @ 144Hz or 165Hz - working on it!!
Case The big Thermaltake that looks like a Case Mods
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA 1600W T2
Mouse Corsair thingy
Keyboard Razer something or other....
VR HMD No headset yet
Software Windows 11 OS... Not a fan!!
Benchmark Scores I've actually never benched it!! Too busy with WCG and FAH and not gaming! :( :( Not OC'd it!! :(
It's not cheap enough to be of any profit to be worth it to continue mining. When the gain is $0.04 per day and dropping & rates around $0.26 per kilowatt hour(generally), the cost far over-shadows the gain.
Unless you can afford to do it or there's alternative coin that's showing promise, I gave up ages ago :)
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
It's not cheap enough to be of any profit to be worth it to continue mining. When the gain is $0.04 per day and dropping & rates around $0.26 per kilowatt hour(generally), the cost far over-shadows the gain.
Yeah I live in cheap hydro land and even I couldn't turn a profit right now.

Not that I would even try, but I've looked at the metrics out of curiousity. It's bad. And honestly, thats good.
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
5,169 (0.90/day)
System Name [Daily Driver]
Processor [Ryzen 7 5800X3D]
Motherboard [Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS]
Cooling [be quiet! Dark Rock Slim]
Memory [64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600MHz (16GBx4)]
Video Card(s) [PNY RTX 3070Ti XLR8]
Storage [1TB SN850 NVMe, 4TB 990 Pro NVMe, 2TB 870 EVO SSD, 2TB SA510 SSD]
Display(s) [2x 27" HP X27q at 1440p]
Case [Fractal Meshify-C]
Audio Device(s) [Steelseries Arctis Pro]
Power Supply [CORSAIR RMx 1000]
Mouse [Logitech G Pro Wireless]
Keyboard [Logitech G512 Carbon (GX-Brown)]
Software [Windows 11 64-Bit]
I'd argue mining was a big hinderance in crypto gaining any kind of true value as a respectable monetary tool. Ignoring the climate issues, too many people were put off by the fact that people could produce coins seemingly out of thin air (in their eyes).
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,517 (1.75/day)
I'd argue mining was a big hinderance in crypto gaining any kind of true value as a respectable monetary tool. Ignoring the climate issues, too many people were put off by the fact that people could produce coins seemingly out of thin air (in their eyes).

It had pros / cons from an adoption perspective.

The main benefit is that early-adopters benefit from the rising coin prices, leading to a MLM-like "free marketing" scheme where legions of online users would effectively shill the coin for free (in hopes that their own coins would become more valuable). This only became "off-putting" after many years: when it became clear that later-adopters had far less profits from the early adopters. As energy costs rose due to difficulty (and this year, unrelated geopolitical reasons), fewer and fewer people would join in.

Other coins tried to restart that early-adopter growth status, but it only lead to 51% attacks (because smaller coins have far less hashing power, therefore its impossible to secure), or rug-pulls.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,005 (2.87/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
so what will be (or people will attempt to) the next big mining coin?
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
1,068 (0.38/day)
System Name Main System
Processor i9-10940x
Motherboard MSI X299 Xpower Gaming AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S + Second Fan
Memory G.Skill 64GB @3200MHz XMP
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix RTX 3090 24GB
Storage 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus; 2TB Corsair Force MP600; 2TB Samsung PM981a
Display(s) Dell U4320Q; LG 43MU79-B
Case Corsair A540
Audio Device(s) Creative Lab SoundBlaster ZX-R
Power Supply EVGA G2 1300
Mouse Logitech MK550
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum XT Brown Switches
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R20 - 6910; FireStrike Ultra - 13241; TimeSpy Extreme - 10067; Port Royal - 13855
so what will be (or people will attempt to) the next big mining coin?
That is my question too, or is mining with GPUs dead for good?
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
2,965 (1.78/day)
Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
System Name PC on since Aug 2019, 1st CPU R5 3600 + ASUS ROG RX580 8GB >> MSI Gaming X RX5700XT (Jan 2020)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X (July 2022), 150W PPT limit, 79C temp limit, CO -9~14
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro (Rev1.0), BIOS F37h, AGESA V2 1.2.0.B
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420mm Rev7 with off center mount for Ryzen, TIM: Kryonaut
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo GTZN (July 2022) 3600MHz 1.42V CL16-16-16-16-32-48 1T, tRFC:288, B-die
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 7900XTX (Dec 2023) 314~465W (366W current) PowerLimit, 1060mV, Adrenalin v24.2.1
Storage Samsung NVMe: 980Pro 1TB(OS 2022), 970Pro 512GB(2019) / SATA-III: 850Pro 1TB(2015) 860Evo 1TB(2020)
Display(s) Dell Alienware AW3423DW 34" QD-OLED curved (1800R), 3440x1440 144Hz (max 175Hz) HDR1000
Case None... naked on desk
Audio Device(s) Astro A50 headset
Power Supply Corsair HX750i, 80+ Platinum, 93% (250~700W), modular, single/dual rail (switch)
Mouse Logitech MX Master (Gen1)
Keyboard Logitech G15 (Gen2) w/ LCDSirReal applet
Software Windows 11 Home 64bit (v23H2, OSB 22631.3155)
That is my question too, or is mining with GPUs dead for good?
Some may continue to do so, but I believe that the ROI of 2015~2020 era has gone for good...
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Yeah I live in cheap hydro land and even I couldn't turn a profit right now.

Not that I would even try, but I've looked at the metrics out of curiousity. It's bad. And honestly, thats good.
That's the thing, no one can. The coins that are still GPU mining centric are worth little or nothing and are unlikely to gain any traction anytime soon, if ever.

That is my question too, or is mining with GPUs dead for good?
Yes. And even if it's not...
Some may continue to do so, but I believe that the ROI of 2015~2020 era has gone for good...
...this.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
2,623 (2.59/day)
System Name daily driver Mac mini M2 Pro
Processor Apple Silicon M2 Pro (6 p-cores, 4 e-cores)
Motherboard Apple proprietary
Cooling Apple proprietary
Memory Apple proprietary 16GB LPDDR5 unified memory
Video Card(s) Apple Silicon M2 Pro (16-core GPU)
Storage Apple proprietary 512GB SSD + various external HDDs
Display(s) LG 27UL850W (4K@60Hz IPS)
Case Apple proprietary
Audio Device(s) Apple proprietary
Power Supply Apple proprietary
Mouse Apple Magic Trackpad 2
Keyboard Keychron K1 tenkeyless (Gateron Reds)
Software macOS Ventura 13 (including latest patches)
Benchmark Scores (My Windows daily driver is a Beelink Mini S12. I'm not interested in benchmarking.)
so what will be (or people will attempt to) the next big mining coin?

My hope is that PoW crypto token mining is dead (good riddance).

With the market's quick rejection of chia, my guess is that other attempts to move to other PC hardware will have a high risk of failure. With recent skyrocketing energy prices, PoW seems even less desirable than before.

During the height of the mining craze, Tom's Hardware regularly published a table that projected how long it would take to break even mining ETH with a GPU. Their estimated electricity costs were hilariously low; if you subbed in a more realistic electricity rate, it averaged out to about 18 months to pay off a GPU (at street prices at the time). Even with a tumbling GPU market, lower crypto value and higher energy costs have made crypto mining unprofitable.

Crypto tokens like raven that can be mined with GPUs have not shown any noteworthy value increase before or after the ETH Merge and the more people who mine raven, the lower the return.

Some miners are taking the "wait and see" approach. My best guess is that they will simply see their equipment lose value quickly as those who dump their mining rigs on the market try to recoup a few bucks. Once Nvidia and AMD launch their next generation GPUs, the value of ETH mining rigs will drop precipitously.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.24/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
bitcoin now at just above 18K with eth down near 1.3K.. eth is down 10% on the day..

things are looking a bit grim.. he he..

trog
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
bitcoin now at just above 18K with eth down near 1.3K.. eth is down 10% on the day..

things are looking a bit grim.. he he..

trog
It's 20+% down on the week. The ETH POW to POS switch plus all the other events are continuing to hit the cryptocoin market hard. This is much worse than even I was expecting...
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.24/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
It's 20+% down on the week. The ETH POW to POS switch plus all the other events are continuing to hit the cryptocoin market hard. This is much worse than even I was expecting...

i use the daily figure because it shows what is happening now.. plus it cant be altered by playing with start and end points..

so far i am looking at big theoretical losses compared to things at the peak.. both in used hardware values and the value of my stash.. i say theoretical because none of it becomes real unless i sell..

its still all totally unpredictable though.. anything could happen.. :)

trog
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
10 (0.02/day)
System Name Intel® Core™ i7-8700K
Processor Core™ i7
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus
Cooling M.2 cooling
Memory 16 GB RAM
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX Vega 56
Storage 512GB SSD
Display(s) 1080p FHD
Case Red Dragon
Audio Device(s) DAC and standard 3.5mm
Power Supply XPG Core Reactor 650W
Mouse Normal Gaming Mouse
Keyboard Normal Gaming Keyboard
VR HMD None
Software None
Benchmark Scores 40%
Bitcoin, Ethereum and a few other crypto tokens (I don't like calling them crypto currencies) have been accepted as valid payment by some merchants although support has fluctuated on and off over the years (Tesla Motors stopped doing this for example).

The far more interesting aspect has been the blockchain technology itself -- not crypto tokens as an end product.

Crypto tokens are here to stay although hopefully proof-of-work mining's heyday is over.
The issue with bitcoins is not the instrument itself, but rather the fact that when making payments, receiving payments, or acting as an intermediary in bitcoins, it can be challenging to determine whether the resulting transaction is for a legal or illegal purpose. As a result, banks are likely to choose the less risky course and avoid doing business with those who handle bitcoins.

The answer to this problem lies with bitcoin intermediaries and regulators rather than with banks.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,005 (2.87/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
The issue with bitcoins is not the instrument itself, but rather the fact that when making payments, receiving payments, or acting as an intermediary in bitcoins, it can be challenging to determine whether the resulting transaction is for a legal or illegal purpose. As a result, banks are likely to choose the less risky course and avoid doing business with those who handle bitcoins.

The answer to this problem lies with bitcoin intermediaries and regulators rather than with banks.

There are lots of banks willing to do shady stuff, i don't think that's a real issue. More like this type of transactions used to be "controlled", not done by joe something. I'm sure "crypto, banks and illegal" is more common then "crypto, banks and legal", it's just not at the reach of everyone.

If some banks don't have specialised personal for this i eat my 3060ti.




edit: i think this is what's been keeping crypto down, ever since Mt Gox

 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
What's keeping crypto down right now is general economic downturn.

The issue with bitcoins is not the instrument itself, but rather the fact that when making payments, receiving payments, or acting as an intermediary in bitcoins, it can be challenging to determine whether the resulting transaction is for a legal or illegal purpose. As a result, banks are likely to choose the less risky course and avoid doing business with those who handle bitcoins.

The answer to this problem lies with bitcoin intermediaries and regulators rather than with banks.
This is price discussion sir and that aspect of bitcoin has nothing to do with day-to-day price.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,005 (2.87/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
At this point it's hard to see many differences between crypto and fiat. Clearly there are people controlling and manipulation it's value, it suffers with economic problems and central banks interventions in the economy just like fiat, their gains are taxed, it's not that easy or fee free to transfer money using crypto, and there is even the endless "hacks" aka thefts.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,517 (1.75/day)
At this point it's hard to see many differences between crypto and fiat. Clearly there are people controlling and manipulation it's value, it suffers with economic problems and central banks interventions in the economy just like fiat, their gains are taxed, it's not that easy or fee free to transfer money using crypto, and there is even the endless "hacks" aka thefts.


This wasn't a hack or theft. It was just a banking collapse
 
Top