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Dell XPS 13 7390 2 in 1 Remove Thermal Throttling

Testtest

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Hi all,
I am trying to remove the power limit for my DELL XPS 13 7390 2 in 1 by installing throttle stop. My current settings are as follows:
1593560429220.png

1593560435464.png

This works for any task that takes <=10min, boosting up to 45W then coming down to ~30W sustained. However, every 10min or so, the laptop is then throttled to 10W, even with the temperature of the CPU at ~75C during these periods, as can be seen through AIDA64:
1593560482013.png

The 'dips' in the bottom red line show the periods where the computer is throttled to 10W, which aligns with a clock speed decrease from ~3GHz to 800MHz. I was wondering if there is a setting or something that I am missing, since the throttling seems to be pretty consistent.

Thanks.
 
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Firstly you have OK do not save voltages checked.
So any changes you make will NOT be saved.
Secondly it is pointless inputting ridiculous numbers in the SpeedShift Max field if the range is up to 39.
Thirdly Turbo Boost long power max should be less than Short Power Max.
 

Testtest

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Firstly you have OK do not save voltages checked.
So any changes you make will NOT be saved.
Secondly it is pointless inputting ridiculous numbers in the SpeedShift Max field if the range is up to 39.
Thirdly Turbo Boost long power max should be less than Short Power Max.
- I click 'Apply' when I want to change the voltages
- I was trying to follow the steps detailed here: https://bradshacks.com/disable-power-limits/
 
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Testtest

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According to that site your Laptop has been tested as working with his recommended settings.
Set them up exactly as shown in his pictures then test for stability.
Yes, I've tried, but the problem persists.
 

unclewebb

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where the computer is throttled to 10W
When this happens, can you post a screenshot of ThrottleStop including the Limit Reasons window?

Your AIDA screenshot shows your CPU is running at 98°C. Overheating detected shows that it is thermal throttling. It would be interesting to see what Limit Reasons shows after your CPU cools down a little. If the temperature drops to 75°C and it is still running at 800 MHz then that is not thermal throttling. Some laptops force power limit throttling for whatever reason they dream up. Some of these throttling schemes cannot be overridden with ThrottleStop or any other software.

As for your settings, why not set the long and short turbo power limits to 45W and set the turbo time limit to its default value which is 28 seconds. Put a check mark in the Turbo Boost Short Power Max box. I know BradsHacks article likes to leave this box unchecked and I know this works for him but it might not work for some Intel CPUs. Checking that box ensures that the ThrottleStop turbo power information is being sent to the CPU.

Leaving Speed Shift MIn Max at 1 and 255 is OK. The default Max is 39. Setting this higher does not seem to make any difference.

Edit - Your problem might be related to the voltage regulators overheating. Limit Reasons might show this type of throttling.
 
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Testtest

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When this happens, can you post a screenshot of ThrottleStop including the Limit Reasons window?

Your AIDA screenshot shows your CPU is running at 98°C. Overheating detected shows that it is thermal throttling. It would be interesting to see what Limit Reasons shows after your CPU cools down a little. If the temperature drops to 75°C and it is still running at 800 MHz then that is not thermal throttling. Some laptops force power limit throttling for whatever reason they dream up. Some of these throttling schemes cannot be overridden with ThrottleStop or any other software.

As for your settings, why not set the long and short turbo power limits to 45W and set the turbo time limit to its default value which is 28 seconds. Put a check mark in the Turbo Boost Short Power Max box. I know BradsHacks article likes to leave this box unchecked and I know this works for him but it might not work for some Intel CPUs. Checking that box ensures that the ThrottleStop turbo power information is being sent to the CPU.

Leaving Speed Shift MIn Max at 1 and 255 is OK. The default Max is 39. Setting this higher does not seem to make any difference.

Edit - Your problem might be related to the voltage regulators overheating. Limit Reasons might show this type of throttling.
Hi unclewebb, thanks for the reply.

Here is a screenshot of it in action:
1594278435415.png


Let me know if you think of any other potential areas where the problem could be occurring from. This is on a fresh install of windows. Here are the updated settings:
1594278544145.png
 
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unclewebb

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There is a duplicate set of turbo power limits that is controlled by an EC. Many Dell laptops use this additional set of turbo power limits to control the CPU. If the turbo power limit in ThrottleStop is set to 46W and this extra power limit within the CPU is set to 13W, the CPU will throttle based on this 13W limit. The setting in ThrottleStop will be ignored. There is no known way to get beyond this limitation. That is the problem you are having.

The 13W limit could be triggered by a separate temperature sensor within your laptop. Try limiting your CPU to 25W or so to keep your overall internal temperatures down. By doing this, you might avoid going into 13W mode.
 

Testtest

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There is a duplicate set of turbo power limits that is controlled by an EC. Many Dell laptops use this additional set of turbo power limits to control the CPU. If the turbo power limit in ThrottleStop is set to 46W and this extra power limit within the CPU is set to 13W, the CPU will throttle based on this 13W limit. The setting in ThrottleStop will be ignored. There is no known way to get beyond this limitation. That is the problem you are having.
Damn, thats unfortunate. Another question - do you know why I am unable to view the C-states of my CPU through throttlestop?
1594311818228.png
 

unclewebb

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I have never had my hands on a 1065G7 for testing purposes. No one else has reported this problem so it might be a problem with your laptop. I will assume that your laptop was idle during the above picture. Are you using the latest BIOS? Be careful with this one. The latest BIOS from Dell might disable your ability to under volt your CPU. If you upgrade to the latest BIOS trying to fix the C state problem, you might not be able to go back to the previous BIOS.

Go into the registry and check this key.
Code:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Intelppm
Within that key look to see what Start is set to. The default value is 3. If Start is set to 4, this can disable all of your C states. If you change this, you will need to reboot.

Intel has been very consistent between CPU generations with the location of the C state counters within the CPU. In theory, ThrottleStop should be reading these counters OK. Double check with HWiNFO. It can report the C state activity on most CPUs.
 

Testtest

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I have never had my hands on a 1065G7 for testing purposes. No one else has reported this problem so it might be a problem with your laptop. I will assume that your laptop was idle during the above picture. Are you using the latest BIOS? Be careful with this one. The latest BIOS from Dell might disable your ability to under volt your CPU. If you upgrade to the latest BIOS trying to fix the C state problem, you might not be able to go back to the previous BIOS.

Go into the registry and check this key.
Code:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Intelppm
Within that key look to see what Start is set to. The default value is 3. If Start is set to 4, this can disable all of your C states. If you change this, you will need to reboot.

Intel has been very consistent between CPU generations with the location of the C state counters within the CPU. In theory, ThrottleStop should be reading these counters OK. Double check with HWiNFO. It can report the C state activity on most CPUs.
Hi, I don't believe the undervolting is disabled, as it is being reported by HWiNFO correctly:
1594329425335.png


The value is the registry is currently set to 3, are you saying that I should try and set it to 4 and see if throttlestop recognizes the C-states?
 

Testtest

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This is supposed to be set to 3. Your computer is set to 3 so that is OK.

Use HWiNFO to see if it also reports 0% C state usage.
Hi, where does HWiNFO report that information? I only see T0/T1 Usage
 

unclewebb

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When I click on the HWiNFO Sensors icon and scroll about half way down, it shows C State residency percentages.
T0/T1 is just telling you that the data is for thread 0 and thread 1 in that core.
This data shows my CPU's 4 cores spending most of their idle time in Core C7.

 

Testtest

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When I click on the HWiNFO Sensors icon and scroll about half way down, it shows C State residency percentages.
T0/T1 is just telling you that the data is for thread 0 and thread 1 in that core.
This data shows my CPU's 4 cores spending most of their idle time in Core C7.

Hi, this is all I see
1594334330920.png
 

unclewebb

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The C0 state is the state a CPU core will be in when it is actively working on something. When this core has nothing to do, it will immediately go into the C1 state. If it has nothing to do for an extended period of time, it will drop into lower and lower C states like C3, C6 and C7. When all of the cores have nothing to do, then the entire CPU package will go into package C2, C3, C6, C7, C8, C9 and package C10.

ThrottleStop and HWiNFO both confirm that your CPU is not being allowed to use any of the low power C states that it should be using. Both C0 and C1 are working but nothing beyond that. This will result in poor battery run time as well as hotter CPU temps when your computer is idle. It is either a Windows issue or a BIOS issue. To try to track this down, if you have a spare hard drive, I would install a fresh copy of Windows 10.

Find a XPS 13 7390 specific forum and try to find another user with your CPU. Ask him to run HWiNFO to see if C states are working for them. A laptop with all of the C states being disabled is not normal.

Check your BIOS to see if you might have disabled C states. Not a good idea to do this on a laptop. It will run slower and hotter.

Edit - When testing, make sure nothing is plugged into a USB port and you are not using an external monitor. Reboot and see if C state activity changes. There are reports about issues like this with the 7390.
 
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