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DENUVO and the real impact on games and gaming companies

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Not sure if there is already a running thread for this, however I find interesting how much Devs are paying for this DRM solution to be implemented on their AAA games. This quote from a reddit user grabbed my attention:

secretlyacutekitten

Game dev here, I work for a large studio that started using Denuvo recently. I'm neutral on piracy and pirate TV shows a lot, so don't give me a hard time, certainly not here to judge.

I do want to explain what happened here, Denuvo Software Solutions offers a guarantee, if your Denuvo game is cracked within a certain time (3 months is normal), you do not have to pay for Denuvo. Part of claiming the refund is you must remove Denuvo from your game.

One of the reasons why the management of my company used it, they think it is a no lose situation. I personally think it is more nuanced, Denuvo is expensive and my management think we lose a fortune to piracy because the industry inflates the figures as I think most of you all know. My management buy in to the inflated figures and Denuvo Software Solutions of course uses them also.

Obviously I'm just a developer so not aware of the numbers but eventually I'll find out if Denuvo helped, my educated guess is that it won't help improve sales figures as much as the management hope. To protect a AAA game, Denuvo charge high 7 figure sums.

If that's true, then holly smuck! couple of millions of $ to implement this?
What's your take on it?
 
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I do want to explain what happened here, Denuvo Software Solutions offers a guarantee, if your Denuvo game is cracked within a certain time (3 months is normal), you do not have to pay for Denuvo. Part of claiming the refund is you must remove Denuvo from your game.

Ooooooh, so now I know SquareEnix probably won't pay Denuvo a dime for Mankind Divided :D:D:D
 
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Ooooooh, so now I know SquareEnix probably won't pay Denuvo a dime for Mankind Divided :D:D:D
Actually they released the cracked after 3 months and 3 days :))
 

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Anyone has done a real comprehensive benchmark with Denuvo on and off? How big is the overhead really?
 

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Why have it at all? Wasn't the whole reason the gaming platforms such as Steam, Origin and Uplay came into being was because they basically told companies "enough DRM! We will be your DRM"? The anti-DRM feeling also led to the huge popularity of GOG.

So what is the purpose of a publisher implementing Denuvo despite the overwhelmingly vast numbers of law abiding purchasers not wanting it? And it's only good for 3 months? That's ridiculous!
 
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Why have it at all? Wasn't the whole reason the gaming platforms such as Steam, Origin and Uplay came into being was because they basically told companies "enough DRM! We will be your DRM"? The ant DRM feeling also led to the huge popularity of GOG.

So what is the purpose of a publisher implementing Denuvo despite the overwhelmingly vast numbers of law abiding purchasers not wanting it? And it's only good for 3 months? That's ridiculous!
Because PIRATES!!!11!11!1! SHAREHOLDE VALUE!!!!!!!

You now it, I know it, and experts know it that adding DRM only inconveniences people and leads to lower sales. CDproject red has already proven this with the witcher. But the blithering idiots driving this industry dont seem to live in reality, and are sure that more DRM will mean higher sales, because all PC players are filthy filthy pirates, and deserve to be punished for their filthy pirating ways.
 

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Because PIRATES!!!11!11!1! SHAREHOLDE VALUE!!!!!!!

You now it, I know it, and experts know it that adding DRM only inconveniences people and leads to lower sales. CDproject red has already proven this with the witcher. But the blithering idiots driving this industry dont seem to live in reality, and are sure that more DRM will mean higher sales, because all PC players are filthy filthy pirates, and deserve to be punished for their filthy pirating ways.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

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Why have it at all? Wasn't the whole reason the gaming platforms such as Steam, Origin and Uplay came into being was because they basically told companies "enough DRM! We will be your DRM"? The ant DRM feeling also led to the huge popularity of GOG.

So what is the purpose of a publisher implementing Denuvo despite the overwhelmingly vast numbers of law abiding purchasers not wanting it? And it's only good for 3 months? That's ridiculous!

The publishers want Denuvo even though it gets cracked after a few months because publishers make most of there money when a game first comes out at $60 a copy. Most people eagerly anticipate a game and get it right away. Publishers assume that they will increase sales if people can't DL a pirated version when it first comes out.

Not every publisher thinks that the vast majority of PC gamers are law abiding purchasers. Ubisoft, in particular, has stated that it believes around 93% of PC gamers pirate their games.
 

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It's like no publisher bothered to look at CDPR. You put out a good product, and don't treat your customers like thieves, and they will buy it in phenomenal numbers. :shadedshu:
 
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The publishers want Denuvo even though it gets cracked after a few months because publishers make most of there money when a game first comes out at $60 a copy. Most people eagerly anticipate a game and get it right away. Publishers assume that they will increase sales if people can't DL a pirated version when it first comes out.

Not every publisher thinks that the vast majority of PC gamers are law abiding purchasers. Ubisoft, in particular, has stated that it believes around 93% of PC gamers pirate their games.
but that is the same ubisoft that said that using uplay "significantly decreased the piracy of their titles"

Which tells me ubisoft has no clue what they are doing. Which isnt all that surprising, but still. In other words, apparently the newest doom patch removes denuvo.
 
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It's like no publisher bothered to look at CDPR. You put out a good product, and don't treat your customers like thieves, and they will buy it in phenomenal numbers. :shadedshu:

I know that people who pirate games all the time have specifically NOT pirated Witcher games because they don't have DRM.

As another example: Morrowind and Oblivion. I have bought both games multiple times, because of losing a CD or whatever. I could have pirated them easily considering they don't have DRM. But I bought them multiple times simply to reward a company for not treating me like a thief. Of course nowadays I have steam so that doesn't matter anymore.
 

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And then companies wonder (not really apparently) why more and more people buy on GOG. Stop treating ALL customers as potential criminals. It's disgusting.

I'm always glad to see a newer game turn up on GOG and if possible I always buy the game from them before any other service. Some games that I already owned on Steam that I replay every few years I still re-buy from GOG when they show up there just so I can own the game DRM free. With Steam you don't own any of your games and Valve can ban your entire account if they want to.
 
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I still often buy games on Steam where I want Steam Cloud functionality. Mostly for games that I want to be sure my saves will be stored and I can cross play them between devices. GOG still doesn't have that which is a bit of a shame because it's really useful.

On a good side, GOG offers GOG Connect where games bought on Steam also unlock on GOG. Not all of them, but more and more appear there. Totally DRM free. Another proof GOG is awesome.
 

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I'm always glad to see a newer game turn up on GOG and if possible I always buy the game from them before any other service. Some games that I already owned on Steam that I replay every few years I still re-buy from GOG when they show up there just so I can own the game DRM free. With Steam you don't own any of your games and Valve can ban your entire account if they want to.

You do the same thing as I. I will repurchase a game on GOG if it appears after Steam, and uninstall the Steam version, since I play for the game, not achievements.
 
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Anyone has done a real comprehensive benchmark with Denuvo on and off? How big is the overhead really?

Rise of The Tomb Raider and Mankind Divided (although not optimized too well still) have both been cracked and both have benchmarks, so you can compare them side by side. My understanding is that there is essentially zero performance difference.

If you were to do a test, I'd use Tomb Raider. On Mankind Divided I still get the very rare stutter and some graphical anomalies in Prague, and yes, I have a legit version on Steam with the latest patch. :p Still a good game and mostly patched up by now. Graphics can range from fairly good to below average, so it doesn't run as well as I had hoped. But decent enough for my 4670K + GTX 1070.
 

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Actually they released the cracked after 3 months and 3 days :))
Ya know, if I were a software cracker, I'm not sure if I'd wait until 3 months and a day, no matter how quickly I cracked it, or at 2 months and 29 days....
 

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Ya know, if I were a software cracker, I'm not sure if I'd wait until 3 months and a day, no matter how quickly I cracked it, or at 2 months and 29 days....

actually i think they the software Crackers. Try to get their Cracked Version out as soon as they can
Insane logic says they the Cracker "get kudos and peer Admiration from other Crackers"

1st with cracked Version = Peer admiration ( and Target no 1 for prosecution ).>>>> :)
 

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actually i think they the software Crackers. Try to get their Cracked Version out as soon as they can
Insane logic says they the Cracker "get kudos and peer Admiration from other Crackers"

1st with cracked Version = Peer admiration ( and Target no 1 for prosecution ).>>>> :)
Oh, true, I understand that from the scene. I was just caught between punishing the DRM company for creating such a pain in the ass, and the software company for using such a pain in the ass :)
 
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Rise of The Tomb Raider and Mankind Divided (although not optimized too well still) have both been cracked and both have benchmarks, so you can compare them side by side. My understanding is that there is essentially zero performance difference.

If you were to do a test, I'd use Tomb Raider. On Mankind Divided I still get the very rare stutter and some graphical anomalies in Prague, and yes, I have a legit version on Steam with the latest patch. :p Still a good game and mostly patched up by now. Graphics can range from fairly good to below average, so it doesn't run as well as I had hoped. But decent enough for my 4670K + GTX 1070.

You sure they are cracked? It still has denuvo inside - steam emulation.

Doom3 currently is the first candidate for benchmarks.
 

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The publishers want Denuvo even though it gets cracked after a few months because publishers make most of there money when a game first comes out at $60 a copy. Most people eagerly anticipate a game and get it right away. Publishers assume that they will increase sales if people can't DL a pirated version when it first comes out.
Remember, they only get $60/copy if people are hyped about the game. Hype comes from marketing. DRM is an investment to protect the marketing (marketing costs far more than DRM).


The way I read it, Denuvo only contractually requires removing the DRM from the game if the publishers makes a claim that Denuvo was defeated in three months. If Denuvo isn't defeated inside of three months, the DRM can remain indefinitely.
 

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The HARD TRUTH IS
people that are going to download a Pirate Version ( for gods sake what happened to those free Game demo's that enabled you to check out weather you wanted to get the game and if it was worth buying) will wait untill a working Cracked Version is Available anyway.
That has been the truth of things ever since DRM was introduced
 
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The HARD TRUTH IS
people that are going to download a Pirate Version ( for gods sake what happened to those free Game demo's that enabled you to check out weather you wanted to get the game and if it was worth buying) will wait untill a working Cracked Version is Available anyway.
That has been the truth of things ever since DRM was introduced

Perhaps one reason Valve allows returns now.
 
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