Developers of ‘Call of Duty: WWII’ Scrub Swastika From ‘Historically Authentic’ Game

[R-T-B]

Scarily, this is actually a likely side effect for those that don't study history and use popular media for facts.

It's also what a Microsoft AI concluded when left to it's own devices learning solely from social media:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-ai-turns-into-a-hitler-loving-sex-robot-wit/

 

[erocker]

This PC stuff needs to stop.

PC should really stand for political censorship.. which is what it is and it's wrong.

 

[eidairaman1]

PC should really stand for political censorship.. which is what it is and it's wrong.

It's the same garbage goin on in certain states taking down civil war historical markers.

 

[R-T-B]

It's the same garbage goin on in certain states taking down civil war historical markers.

I'm unsure that's the same.

It's not like they are saying you can't ever talk about the confederacy. I mean if there was a swastika in Berlin... oh wait, yeah, there was and that did get blown up.

A public monument should fit public values.

 

[the54thvoid]

Besides, this isn't PC gone mad, it's publishing seeking maximum exposure for more markets. People need to stop thinking everything they disagree with is PC madness.
If German laws prohibit the use of swastika in entertainment, so be it, it's their law. Activision is simply pandering to a large market demand.
Interestingly, I see swastikas as avatars on BF1 occasionally. What happens about that?

And for people talking up the liberal point, it's not a liberal objective. Liberals like freedoms. Unlike conservatives who like to deny freedoms unless it fits with their narrow moral compass.
Rather be liberal than oppressive. And Germany is now very liberal, the nazis were very oppressive.

 

[natr0n]

Simply mod it back in for PC(personal computer) is the true master race.

 

[R-T-B]

Interestingly, I see swastikas as avatars on BF1 occasionally. What happens about that?

Technically? Just by viewing that avatar, you've committed a crime (in Germany, anyways).

In reality? Nothing. Unless maybe you were the one with the avatar, and openly admitted it in a public space.

It's one of those laws that gets violated all the time but unless you rub it in peoples faces or make a ton of money on it, no one cares.

 

[rtwjunkie]

And for people talking up the liberal point, it's not a liberal objective. Liberals like freedoms. Unlike conservatives who like to deny freedoms unless it fits with their narrow moral compass.

Funnily enough that also fits extreme liberals in the U.S. Who get rabidly violent at any disagreement with them. Woe to those who exercise their freedom to disagree. So it's an extremist viewpoint, not necessarily liberal or conservative.

 

[R-T-B]

Funnily enough that also fits extreme liberals in the U.S. Who get rabidly violent at any disagreement with them. Woe to those who exercise their freedom to disagree. So it's an extremist viewpoint, not necessarily liberal or conservative.

I think it's safe to say extremists just like to be extreme, and silence those who don't agree with them.

Who would've thunk it?

 

[Vayra86]

PC for me still is Personal Computer.

Suck everything else

 

[R-T-B]

PC for me still is Personal Computer.

Suck everything else

PC POWER!

 

[the54thvoid]

Funnily enough that also fits extreme liberals in the U.S. Who get rabidly violent at any disagreement with them. Woe to those who exercise their freedom to disagree. So it's an extremist viewpoint, not necessarily liberal or conservative.

Yar, I didn't say extremist. Nothing wrong with liberals. Also, exercising freedom of speech is a misnomer if you're exercising your right to invite hatred. But we digress.

 

[droopyRO]

PC should really stand for political censorship.. which is what it is and it's wrong.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Yar, I didn't say extremist. Nothing wrong with liberals. Also, exercising freedom of speech is a misnomer if you're exercising your right to invite hatred. But we digress.

I know you didn't. I was pointing out that those attributes are as likely to be held by extremists on both sides. Nothing wrong with mainstream liberals or conservatives.

I think European conservative view may be different than here. In the US. conservatives are for MORE personal freedoms, less government involvement in people lives. Sounds like your definition of liberal.

 

[Frick]

It's actually an alt-right conspiracy to deny the Nazis ever existed and the Holocaust the therefore never happened.

Scarily, this is actually a likely side effect for those that don't study history and use popular media for facts.

Holocaust deniers have been around since it ended. One of the most intelligent (as in high IQ) guys I've ever met was one.


Also, how did they do it in the millions of WW2 shooters released so far? I seem to remember the original Medal of Honor having plentt of swastikas.

 

[the54thvoid]

I know you didn't. I was pointing out that those attributes are as likely to be held by extremists on both sides. Nothing wrong with mainstream liberals or conservatives.

I think European conservative view may be different than here. In the US. conservatives are for MORE personal freedoms, less government involvement in people lives. Sounds like your definition of liberal.

Yeah, we have different names from each other but also, the ideology is different between oceans.

We all live on the spectrum of political anarchy to authoritarian dictatorship. Long live the middle ground.

Edit: I should add, more personal freedoms means social welfare to allow people to live better lives. Without a welfare system, there is limited social mobility. Conservatives tend to restrict welfare, believing the rich will filter down the wealth. Unfortunately, that has been shown, spectacularly in the last bank crash to not be the case.
The rich get richer and the poor get fucked. In our country you can add a class system to make it worse. You guys I guess have similar social heirarchies.

Anyway, about those Nazis.....

I saw you thanked my pre edit post, don't be shy to remove thanks if you disagree!

 

[R-T-B]

Also, how did they do it in the millions of WW2 shooters released so far? I seem to remember the original Medal of Honor having plentt of swastikas.

Probably had a special german SKU.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Yeah, we have different names from each other but also, the ideology is different between oceans.

We all live on the spectrum of political anarchy to authoritarian dictatorship. Long live the middle ground.

Edit: I should add, more personal freedoms means social welfare to allow people to live better lives. Without a welfare system, there is limited social mobility. Conservatives tend to restrict welfare, believing the rich will filter down the wealth. Unfortunately, that has been shown, spectacularly in the last bank crash to not be the case.
The rich get richer and the poor get fucked. In our country you can add a class system to make it worse. You guys I guess have similar social heirarchies.

Anyway, about those Nazis.....

I saw you thanked my pre edit post, don't be shy to remove thanks if you disagree!

Nope, not removing my thanks. Unlike some people on this site, you and I don't depend on someone to agree with us to appreciate the intelligence and thought put into a posting. Plus, I respect opinions, especially those that can be expressed as more than "reasons."

 

[f22a4bandit]

Yeah, we have different names from each other but also, the ideology is different between oceans.

We all live on the spectrum of political anarchy to authoritarian dictatorship. Long live the middle ground.

Edit: I should add, more personal freedoms means social welfare to allow people to live better lives. Without a welfare system, there is limited social mobility. Conservatives tend to restrict welfare, believing the rich will filter down the wealth. Unfortunately, that has been shown, spectacularly in the last bank crash to not be the case.
The rich get richer and the poor get fucked. In our country you can add a class system to make it worse. You guys I guess have similar social heirarchies.

Anyway, about those Nazis.....

I saw you thanked my pre edit post, don't be shy to remove thanks if you disagree!

So essentially, our Democratic party in the US falls more in line with the conservative spectrum in Europe. Is that a fair comparison?

Also, you need look no further than the Kansas experiment to realize that trickle down economic policies are a farce. They slashed taxes and absolutely destroyed their state. Hell, their Republican-led legislature recently agreed to start raising taxes because of the reality of their situation. Who knew taxes were so essential to a functioning government?!

I don't agree with scrubbing the swastika from the game, but I can understand the reasoning behind it for places that ban it.

 

[the54thvoid]

§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations

(1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda:

1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party;
[…]

4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. […]

(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. […]

§ 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations

(1) Whoever:

1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or
2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

(3) The exceptions from §86 subsection (3) and (4) apply accordingly.

The law wording... EA just has to call it a historical education game.

 

[rtwjunkie]

The law wording... EA just has to call it a historical education game.

This echoes what I have always known. The German aversion to any thing of that era or political leaning is way more than the allies imposing their will after WW2.

I spent 10 of my most formative years growing up one Germany, and it always struck me as the German government itself going out of its way always to show the world that they are free of the Nazi specter and that they are open to all peoples.

Indeed you can say this whole "need" to prove they aren't the same people from 80 years ago has gone overboard, and is behind the reason Merkel has allowed so many Syrians in, and in turn tells the German people they need to respect the refugees customs, instead of telling them "this is German culture and society. Assimilate or leave".

Apologize for the seeming digression, but it is indeed all related, back to the German Constitution, video games, symbols, and this seeming need to constantly prove themselves, as a government, to the world.

 

[R-T-B]

The law wording... EA just has to call it a historical education game.

I think that would also have to be remotely believable.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

While it's still in the campaign and therefor won't affect me, I feel removing it from online play is a mistake. As far as I know even the Jews have always maintained it's better the truth be told about the holocaust so it can never be forgotten or denied. I would think that would include displaying all banners and uniform insignia accurately.

You start censoring even the smallest details and eventually the bigger truth gets distorted. Like that article claiming the swastika dates back to the 19th century, which many would assume is it's origin. Wrong, it was used in many cultures for various meanings and is a big part of ancient history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use

Again, this is the type of bastardization of the truth that happens when even the smallest details are omitted or overlooked. It's also why generations that follow don't have a full understanding of historic events. The point here is that it's not the swastika itself that is evil, it's the Nazi's interpretation of it. You lose sight of that and all meaning is lost as well. It's akin to the cross also being portray inverted by some cults.

 

[Flow]

In contrast to the us, we here in europe don't like that particular swastika symbol. Those that do still adore adolf Hitler and wished the nazies won the war and dominated the world, so they could continu cleansing the world of certain human races.
As simple and narrow minded this may sound, it's still a common sentiment here. And as mentioned before, Germany will definitely not appreciate the use of that symbol in any game.
Besides the past, today it still stands for terror and violence.

I agree with the devs.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Pink Floyd managed it with "The Wall" years ago. Everyone got the idea that it was a stylized swastika