• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Differences between 6950 and 6970

scooper22

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
108 (0.04/day)
Likes
30
Location
Central Europe
Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX (uv, oc)
Motherboard 90-MXGIP0-A0UAYZ
Cooling VENOMOUS-X + TR-FDB-12-600 + PLPS
Memory F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2
Video Card(s) 21188-00-40R + DCACO-V3400-BLA01 (uv, unlock)
Storage WD10EALS-00Z8A0 + 4044951000029
Display(s) VM633AT
Case FT02B-W
Audio Device(s) SB0090, ALC892
Power Supply BN162
#1
Hi there,

I was looking around for a comprehensive list of the (physical) differences of a 6950 and a 6970 (both reference designs).

Flashing a 6950 to 6970 is now a common sport. AMD is acting delayed, but will laser-cut the chips, that I'm pretty sure of.
So as anybody is flashing like crazy and shouts "Great! Now I have made myself a FULL 6970" I began to wonder - is a flashed 6950 *really* a 6970, or are there any differences left after the flash?


What I found so far are the following that distinct a 6950@6970 and a real 6970:


Power Connectors
(Source: can be seen with the eye)

The two cards have a different power-connector configuration.

6950: 2x 6 pin
6970: 1x 6 pin and 1x 8 pin

Open Questions:
- Is this a non-issue as these two extra are only ground lines?
- Does this create component stress??


Different PCBs
(Source: http://www.overclock.net/ati/893712-flashing-6950-6970-any-success-story.html)

- taken from above: different power connectors
- The 6950 PCB has some extra soldered resistors.
- The silver/blue caps are "E063..." for 6950 and "E059..." for 6970
- The large silverwhite block at the bottom left is "25CH10 X7" for the 6950 and "36CH10 A" for the 6970 (production date is in front, so these might either be different fabrication lines or actually different chips)
- other changes not visible in the small pictures

6950: http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/video/radeon-hd6970-hd6950/29_695_pcbpw_big.jpg
6970: http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/video/radeon-hd6970-hd6950/30_697_pcbpw_big.jpg

Open Questions:
- Effects with the different power demand of the 6970s BIOS higher clock speeds / power demand?
- Burnout due too high power consumption but smaller power delivery??
- Or are these related changes that simply come ftom the different power-connector configuration and have no otherwise effect?
- Do the "1.175V" of the 6970 BIOS translate to something completele different on a 6950 PCB? -> If so, maybe this fries the chips. If someone could measure this then we could recalculate what voltage on a 6970 BIOS has to be set to be within the power handling capabilities of a 6950 PCB


Different Memory Chips
(Source: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd6970-hd6950_4.html)

6950: H5GQ2H24MFR T2C chips which work at 1.5 volts voltage and 5000 MHz rated frequency
6970: H5GQ2H24MFR R0C chips (1.5 volts, 6000 MHz)

Open Questions:
- The 6950 chips might not be able to handle the higher clock rates that come with the 6970 BIOS (1375*4 = 5500 MHz)
- Damage due to higher voltage? (I heard the 6970 uses more juice on the RAMs, sadly I have no reference and no V-values)


Internal Device ID
(Source: RBE v1.27 released!)

Upon a BIOS flash the Device-ID remains intact, giving a flashed 6950@6970 card still the ID of a 6950.

6950: 0x1002 0x6719
6970: 0x1002 0x6718

Open Questions:
- Where is this information stored if not in the BIOS? Modifyable?
- Does this confuse drivers? tools?
- Drivers might detect a flashed 6950 and deny startup?


PowerTune Cap-Settings
(Sources:
for the caps: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...8899-amd-radeon-hd-6970-hd-6950-review-5.html
for not updating after BIOS flash: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/159)

The PowerTune caps remain unchanged after a BIOS flash.

6950: cap at 200W usage
6970: cap at 250W usage

Open Questions:
- Where is this information stored if not in the BIOS? Modifyable?
- A flashed 6950 is still limited by its PowerTune settings, regardless of 6970 BIOS -- Maybe this is even a good thing? :)


So to anyone who thinks that he is unlocking a 6950 to a full 6970 - this (sadly) is simply not the case :)


Are there any more differences?
What are the impacts of flashing a 6970 BIOS on a 6950?
What about the open questions?


scooper
 
Last edited:

jimmyz

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
95 (0.02/day)
Likes
32
Location
Indiana
System Name Black ice
Processor QX 9650 @ 5ghz @ 1.55v
Motherboard DFI X-38 T2R
Cooling jinu ss in v-2000b+2
Memory crucial ballistix tracer ddr2 1066 asynch 4-4-4-5
Video Card(s) 2 x Radeon 4850 voltmodded watercooled
Storage 4x seagate 250gb in RAID 0
Display(s) 24" SOYO LCD 1920x1200
Case vapoli v2000b+2 (lian-li)
Audio Device(s) onboard karjan audio
Power Supply pc power & cooling silencer 750 Quad
Software windows mce 2005 (xp pro basically) dual boot w/ Vista Home premium.
#2
Actually they are different boards, just look at the pictures of them near the PCI-E fingers. the X-Bit labs pics show these well.
Also the power circuitry uses different model components, for instance look at the choke beside the 8 pin vs the model of choke beside the 6 pin of the 6950.


As for the device ID issue, there are only so many things that are exposed to the Bios to change, the Device ID could be hard coded in to prevent dubious resellers from flashing and upping the price to defraud customers.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
497 (0.15/day)
Likes
117
Location
Hampshire, UK
System Name If you name your systems, get a girlfriend...
Processor i7 4770k
Motherboard Asus Maximus VI Formula
Cooling Custom waterloop around Black Ice GTX 360
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) R9 290
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
Case HAF 932
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Windows 10 x64
#3
Last edited:

scooper22

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
108 (0.04/day)
Likes
30
Location
Central Europe
Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX (uv, oc)
Motherboard 90-MXGIP0-A0UAYZ
Cooling VENOMOUS-X + TR-FDB-12-600 + PLPS
Memory F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2
Video Card(s) 21188-00-40R + DCACO-V3400-BLA01 (uv, unlock)
Storage WD10EALS-00Z8A0 + 4044951000029
Display(s) VM633AT
Case FT02B-W
Audio Device(s) SB0090, ALC892
Power Supply BN162
#4
@jimmyz: actually i think they are pretty equal. I see only the 8->6 connector change and the field of resistors on the center/left. Both changed might actually be related.

@robal: thanks! I added the PowerTune differences. I already read the article but forgot about the PT ;)

Edit: okay, I made out some more PCB differences, you as you pointed out:
- the silver/blue caps are "E063..." for 6950 and "E059..." for 6970
- the large silverwhite block at the bottom left is "25CH10 X7" for the 6950 and "36CH10 A" for the 6970 (production date is in front, so these might either be different fabrication lines or actually different chips)
 
Last edited:

smakked

New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
45 (0.01/day)
Likes
9
System Name SPAZZ
Processor 2500k @ 4.5gig
Motherboard Gigabyte P67A-UD4
Cooling Coolermaster 212+
Memory 2 x 4 Gig Gskill Ripjaws
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX570 900/2000
Storage OCZ Vertex 2 120gig
Display(s) Samsung 2333SW
Case Antec 300
Audio Device(s) Creative Xfi Extreme
Power Supply Corsair TX750w
Software Windows 7
#5
All i know is i have a Flashed 6950 which clocks better then some of teh 6970s out there so im happy. And all this BS about it will diew because it doesnt have better components i dont care really who keeps a card for more then 3 months anyway :D
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
3,102 (0.66/day)
Likes
815
System Name TheReactor
Processor i7 6700k @ 4.95ghz - delid
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VIII Genie z170
Cooling EK EVO NIckle/Pump, 2xBlackIce GTX 240's
Memory 32GB G.Skill 3200Mhz Cas 14
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980ti Gaming 6G
Storage Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
Display(s) HP ZR30W - 2560X1600
Case Corsiar 550
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply Antec Quattro 1000W
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Corsair Gaming k70
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
#6
Good thread and was meaning to ask some of these same questions.

If I purchase a 6950 and Flash it to 6970, will I be able to OC the flashed 6950 to the same levels a true 6970 would be able to OC? Assume both cards would be water cooled.

I am betting it won't be as the limiter on the 6950 is lower... But how significant will the difference be in real world performance.
 

jimmyz

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
95 (0.02/day)
Likes
32
Location
Indiana
System Name Black ice
Processor QX 9650 @ 5ghz @ 1.55v
Motherboard DFI X-38 T2R
Cooling jinu ss in v-2000b+2
Memory crucial ballistix tracer ddr2 1066 asynch 4-4-4-5
Video Card(s) 2 x Radeon 4850 voltmodded watercooled
Storage 4x seagate 250gb in RAID 0
Display(s) 24" SOYO LCD 1920x1200
Case vapoli v2000b+2 (lian-li)
Audio Device(s) onboard karjan audio
Power Supply pc power & cooling silencer 750 Quad
Software windows mce 2005 (xp pro basically) dual boot w/ Vista Home premium.
#7
Good thread and was meaning to ask some of these same questions.

If I purchase a 6950 and Flash it to 6970, will I be able to OC the flashed 6950 to the same levels a true 6970 would be able to OC? Assume both cards would be water cooled.

I am betting it won't be as the limiter on the 6950 is lower... But how significant will the difference be in real world performance.
Insignifigant difference in performance, 99.9% of the people will never push their cards hard enough to notice. There are some hardware differences, more than most people think by a cursory examination of the board pics. But in the gaming and daily use areas it is nothing to worry about. Buy it and have fun.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
3,102 (0.66/day)
Likes
815
System Name TheReactor
Processor i7 6700k @ 4.95ghz - delid
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VIII Genie z170
Cooling EK EVO NIckle/Pump, 2xBlackIce GTX 240's
Memory 32GB G.Skill 3200Mhz Cas 14
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980ti Gaming 6G
Storage Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
Display(s) HP ZR30W - 2560X1600
Case Corsiar 550
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply Antec Quattro 1000W
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Corsair Gaming k70
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
#8
Insignifigant difference in performance, 99.9% of the people will never push their cards hard enough to notice. There are some hardware differences, more than most people think by a cursory examination of the board pics. But in the gaming and daily use areas it is nothing to worry about. Buy it and have fun.
I and most people on this forum are that .1%, so it could make a difference. As I said assume both would be water cooled...that right there should tell you my intentions. To OC the holy 5hit out of either of them.

I guess I need to wait for more people to do this and post to 3dmark11/vantage threads.
 

jimmyz

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
95 (0.02/day)
Likes
32
Location
Indiana
System Name Black ice
Processor QX 9650 @ 5ghz @ 1.55v
Motherboard DFI X-38 T2R
Cooling jinu ss in v-2000b+2
Memory crucial ballistix tracer ddr2 1066 asynch 4-4-4-5
Video Card(s) 2 x Radeon 4850 voltmodded watercooled
Storage 4x seagate 250gb in RAID 0
Display(s) 24" SOYO LCD 1920x1200
Case vapoli v2000b+2 (lian-li)
Audio Device(s) onboard karjan audio
Power Supply pc power & cooling silencer 750 Quad
Software windows mce 2005 (xp pro basically) dual boot w/ Vista Home premium.
#9
LOL water is not what I am talking about..hehe, More like the LN2 and Hard volt mod people.The type of People who just bought the card to chill it subzero and set world records. No, on water you will never see a difference.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
3,102 (0.66/day)
Likes
815
System Name TheReactor
Processor i7 6700k @ 4.95ghz - delid
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VIII Genie z170
Cooling EK EVO NIckle/Pump, 2xBlackIce GTX 240's
Memory 32GB G.Skill 3200Mhz Cas 14
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980ti Gaming 6G
Storage Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
Display(s) HP ZR30W - 2560X1600
Case Corsiar 550
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply Antec Quattro 1000W
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Corsair Gaming k70
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
#10
LOL water is not what I am talking about..hehe, More like the LN2 and Hard volt mod people.The type of People who just bought the card to chill it subzero and set world records. No, on water you will never see a difference.
Ah that would be the .01%

Do you have any stats/benchmarks that show this to be true? If so please post them. I am almost ready to purchase 2x 6950's and flash them. But if they can not get to the same levels as a 6970 then maybe I will go that route.
 

jimmyz

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
95 (0.02/day)
Likes
32
Location
Indiana
System Name Black ice
Processor QX 9650 @ 5ghz @ 1.55v
Motherboard DFI X-38 T2R
Cooling jinu ss in v-2000b+2
Memory crucial ballistix tracer ddr2 1066 asynch 4-4-4-5
Video Card(s) 2 x Radeon 4850 voltmodded watercooled
Storage 4x seagate 250gb in RAID 0
Display(s) 24" SOYO LCD 1920x1200
Case vapoli v2000b+2 (lian-li)
Audio Device(s) onboard karjan audio
Power Supply pc power & cooling silencer 750 Quad
Software windows mce 2005 (xp pro basically) dual boot w/ Vista Home premium.
#11