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DirectX 11.2 Exclusive to Windows 8.1 and Xbox One

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#51
Help me wrap my head around this.

At the beginning of Vista MS introduced directx 10. This was supposed to move operating system sales, and be a feature integral to new games.

At the beginning of 7 MS said they'd introduce directx 11. Almost none of the newest games had feature support for directx 10, and those that did had them almost universally hidden because the consumer base had given Vista the finger.


Now people bought into 7, because it was a genuine improvement over xp. There were quibbles, but a functional 64 bit variant, better performance, and a smaller footprint had 7 beating out xp in almost every metric.

Windows 8 was introduced, with a ham-fisted attempt to unify the windows experience. People couldn't, and still can't, look past the UI for the incremental improvements. Rather than addressing the issue, MS gives people back a feature from the old UI without regards for what is actually being asked. People offer the same finger back to MS, that it offered them.

Knowing that OS sales are stagnating, MS introduces a new variant of directx just like the one packaged with Vista. They think that this time it will work, because their console will have it. Of course, the directx variant hasn't yet been released. This means that launch titles will not be able to use it, and the as yet unreleased OS won't see anything that uses it for a solid year.

So we have one of two situations here; MS hasn't talked to itself internally or they are raging idiots. The first conclusion is valid if the xbox arm hasn't been kept in the loop with the OS arm. If the struggles of the OS haven't been made clear, a person at the top could dictate the (for the sake of the Windows experience) inclusion of a new directx variant in the console to match the new OS.

This would be logical, assuming three things weren't true. MS has gone with slower RAM than Sony, so sharing that pool seems like a desperate effort to make it work better based on the aging directx standard. MS is giving away free upgrades to 8 users, basically saying that 8.1 is not bringing enough value to users to justify the cost of a new OS. Finally, the MS track record speaks volumes. They don't listen to customer feedback, crush dissenting views rather than understanding and addressing them, and developers are the ones being put in a tight place here. Who would spend valuable resources coding for 11.2 when the features can't be ported to another console, and only a small percentage of PC users might see the benefits? My money is on MS drawing a line in the sand, and telling the sea of change that they'll stab it if it crosses the line. In short, MS is being stupid.
:roll::roll::roll:
Very well written, you should apply for a job as a writer here ;)
 

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#52
Nice, MS pushing people once again although it might be a lot different now when Linux is much more available and known about and OpenGL has matured a hell load since when it was used a lot...

But they have money to do this so wont really bother them all that much but what it will do is help steam sell games on Linux haha.

Must be fun to be able to play dangerous games when you have money. And all so at the expense of others too.

I guess it could go the other way as no one ends up using the 11.2 HAHA.


Other wise well done Microsoft you might have found me a way to save money buying a OS and making phones to people who don't speak english
 
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#54
Random thought: this has more in common with Shadowrun being Windows Vista only than DirectX 10 being Vista only. Strip the DRM and Shadowrun works on XP; strip the DRM on DirectX 10 and DirectX 10 still doesn't work on XP. Someone will likely figure out a way to make DirectX 11.2 work on Windows 8 and Windows 7 (maybe Windows Vista too). There is no major structural change to warrant no backwards compatibility. Like Shadowrun, it was just Microsoft trying to get people to buy newer Windows to use software; like Shadowrun, it won't work.
 
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#55
One question , so far as tiled resources, doesn't id's rage do that via software trickery?.
Anyway they should listen to some of the people and upgrade win7 instead of trying to strong arm the money off us , I paid a decent amount for win 7 ulty dont I deserve a bit of loyalty and service.
Tiled Resources for Xbox 360 and Direct3D 11

Click details. So does this mean tiled resources aren't new and only the way they're implemented in Windows 8.1 / next-gen consoles is?

EDIT: I wanted to note that btarunr's editorial mentions tiled resources being "analogous to OpenGL MegaTexture, implemented on id Software's 'Rage'".
 
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#56
Everyone in this thread is just butt hurt and crying like 12 year old girls on their first ovulation because they are going to have to upgrade to get the latest DX.

Linux sucks for games.....and everything else unless you were born with a slide ruler shoved up your ass.
Mac is late getting games and they hardly get AAA titles nevermind the premium on hardware.

So at the end of the day this whole thread is the inevitable fact all you people bitching will be upgrading to windows 8. Taste that?...........That's what they call crow.
 

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#57
Everyone in this thread is just butt hurt and crying like 12 year old girls on their first ovulation because they are going to have to upgrade to get the latest DX.

Linux sucks for games.....and everything else unless you were born with a slide ruler shoved up your ass.
Mac is late getting games and they hardly get AAA titles nevermind the premium on hardware.

So at the end of the day this whole thread is the inevitable fact all you people bitching will be upgrading to windows 8. Taste that?...........That's what they call crow.


That's what they call BOLLOCKS.
 
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#58
That's what they call BOLLOCKS.
I know, I know.....just like the high and mighty PC race was gonna protest Call of Duty. :rolleyes:
 
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#59
Great, now if you'll want to use latest and greatest DirectX features, you'll have to go with the bullshit GUI design from Win8, its dumb Start menu, dumb touch crap, shitty control panel design and crappy task switching in the top left corner... Microsoft, just sod off with such crap... this could easily be supplied to Windows 7 but they just want to push the Win8 crap, don't they, giving us zero alternative to all the bullshit they are doing lately with their OS. Sure it's decently fast but that's about it as far as Windows 8 goes. Everything on top of it is garbage and i hate it. And i'm not the only one. But they just keep on sticking their thick heads through new and new layers of brick walls. I just don't get their moronic logic...
:confused:

Control panel in W8 (windows+x > control panel):


Task switch (alt+tab):
 

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#60
Just thought of something else besides the fact we likely won't see any game coding beyond 11.0 for several years....the hardware front. If I'm not mistaken, the newest Nvidia cards, the 7 series, are all stuck at 11.1.

So unless the majority of 7 card owners are independently wealthy, this pushiness by MS matters not in the least, because most will be rocking those same cards for 2-3 years, some even longer. Game developers will be conscious of this fact too.
 

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#61

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#62
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#63
Just thought of something else besides the fact we likely won't see any game coding beyond 11.0 for several years....the hardware front. If I'm not mistaken, the newest Nvidia cards, the 7 series, are all stuck at 11.1.

So unless the majority of 7 card owners are independently wealthy, this pushiness by MS matters not in the least, because most will be rocking those same cards for 2-3 years, some even longer. Game developers will be conscious of this fact too.
My same thought exactly, people were forgetting that is not just Win 8.1 + DX 11.2 games, nvidia and AMD must play as well and certainly they're going to release their compatible GPU's but not every gamer out there buys every generation of graphics cards.

DX 11.2 might become relevant in 2 years not sooner. Enough for me to remain comfy in my Win 7 safe zone.

Yeah the Xbox influence could work but we should remember that console is only important in the US, the rest of the world is for PS4 and this time the gap will be wider. I know the US is the biggest videogames market but in 5-10 years that won't be enough.
 

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#64
whats the bet windows 9 comes out, with a better interface and works with all these 8.1 exclusive features, and everyone loves it because 'hey at least its not vista!'


oh sorry i meant to say win ME. i mean win 8.
 
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#65
true, but they can only use opengl if they are using linux. and since we wont see real opengl development so long as microsoft keeps forcing directx on people then there is no choice but to ditch windows all together. people who game on windows are as bad as console gamers in my opinion when it comes to being all high and mighty.
I'd like to turn that around and say we won't see any real use of OpenGL until they do more development work on it and turn out something actually groundbreaking.

You forget that for a while OpenGL was the de-facto standard for gaming, even in Windows simply because it offered a superior feature set. After a while, OpenGL sort of stagnated while Microsoft picked up the pace on DX development. Between 2006 and 2008 there was nothing new on the OpenGL front. Meanwhile, DirectX has had pixel shaders since 2001 with DX8. DX was first to the table with hardware T&L, texture compression, a lot of other features. AFAIK bump mapped textures was the last time OGL held an advantage over DX.

OpenGL should never have been displaced by DirectX (Microsoft certainly had a hard time getting their standards in, remember what happened to WinG and the early versions of DX?), but sad to say the people behind the standard got lazy and complacent and they were rightfully displaced, and now it's up to them to come up with a superior feature set if they want developers to use them in favor of DX.
 
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#66
Linux sucks for games.....and everything else unless you were born with a slide ruler shoved up your ass.
or it because you had some difficulties installing linux operating system in your rig ?
let's see what will happen in the next future with PS4 runs with openGL API
 
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#67
Help me wrap my head around this.

At the beginning of Vista MS introduced directx 10. This was supposed to move operating system sales, and be a feature integral to new games.

At the beginning of 7 MS said they'd introduce directx 11. Almost none of the newest games had feature support for directx 10, and those that did had them almost universally hidden because the consumer base had given Vista the finger.


Now people bought into 7, because it was a genuine improvement over xp. There were quibbles, but a functional 64 bit variant, better performance, and a smaller footprint had 7 beating out xp in almost every metric.

Windows 8 was introduced, with a ham-fisted attempt to unify the windows experience. People couldn't, and still can't, look past the UI for the incremental improvements. Rather than addressing the issue, MS gives people back a feature from the old UI without regards for what is actually being asked. People offer the same finger back to MS, that it offered them.

Knowing that OS sales are stagnating, MS introduces a new variant of directx just like the one packaged with Vista. They think that this time it will work, because their console will have it. Of course, the directx variant hasn't yet been released. This means that launch titles will not be able to use it, and the as yet unreleased OS won't see anything that uses it for a solid year.

So we have one of two situations here; MS hasn't talked to itself internally or they are raging idiots. The first conclusion is valid if the xbox arm hasn't been kept in the loop with the OS arm. If the struggles of the OS haven't been made clear, a person at the top could dictate the (for the sake of the Windows experience) inclusion of a new directx variant in the console to match the new OS.

This would be logical, assuming three things weren't true. MS has gone with slower RAM than Sony, so sharing that pool seems like a desperate effort to make it work better based on the aging directx standard. MS is giving away free upgrades to 8 users, basically saying that 8.1 is not bringing enough value to users to justify the cost of a new OS. Finally, the MS track record speaks volumes. They don't listen to customer feedback, crush dissenting views rather than understanding and addressing them, and developers are the ones being put in a tight place here. Who would spend valuable resources coding for 11.2 when the features can't be ported to another console, and only a small percentage of PC users might see the benefits? My money is on MS drawing a line in the sand, and telling the sea of change that they'll stab it if it crosses the line. In short, MS is being stupid.
I think this is the best-written jumble of words that I have ever had the fortune to read on TPU. With that said, I believe that with the PS4 being the obvious winner so far, I believe that everybody will jump on the OpenGL bandwagon (as some people stated before) and the developers simply won't have to deal with these kinds of problems.
 
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#68
so the nvidia gtx 780 won't have dx 11.2 compatibility, will it?
 
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#69
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#70
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#71
Everyone in this thread is just butt hurt and crying like 12 year old girls on their first ovulation because they are going to have to upgrade to get the latest DX.

Linux sucks for games.....and everything else unless you were born with a slide ruler shoved up your ass.
Mac is late getting games and they hardly get AAA titles nevermind the premium on hardware.

So at the end of the day this whole thread is the inevitable fact all you people bitching will be upgrading to windows 8. Taste that?...........That's what they call crow.

Coming from a guy that went from XP straight to windows 7, I can steadfastly say.
:rolleyes:
Good day to you sir.
Not I..
 

RCoon

Gaming Moderator
Staff member
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#72
Why you all haf to be mad? Is just directx...

Seriously. 11.2 will bring nothing of importance to us that we will care about for the next 5years. While consoles are still around, and likely wont do a great deal, if anything at all with 11.2, we wont get much from it when all those games are ported over anyway.

M$ has done this multiple times, and each time it never made a difference to any of us. Sure its a dick move, but its not going to hunder PC gamers who dont want Win 8 or 8.1 right now.
 

Frick

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#73
Other than "D3D tiled resources", what is the big news? I honestly can see why they do this. They want more people to go to Windows 8, which is natural. And if it's at the heart of the Xbox One, is it using stuff that simply doesn't exist in earlier versions of Windows?

But as others have said, unless it brings something truly great to the table it doesn't really matter.

BTW, are you locked to DirectX when developing for the Xbox? I imagine you are, but I have no idea really.
 
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#74
I don't see how this is a shock to anyone. Direct X 11.1 was Windows 8 exclusive, why wouldn't 11.2 be 8.1 exclusive?
 
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#75
BTW, are you locked to DirectX when developing for the Xbox? I imagine you are, but I have no idea really.
Developers have to deal with special set of libraries tailored for xbox (cut down version of directx) and that's for developers of, let's say Unreal engine at Epic to worry.
Game devs usually deal mostly with engine tools.

For example, in Unreal engine you make your game with high detailed tesselated objects at max level of detail quality.
When finished you deploy for xbox360 - only the low-mid quality LODs and shader pack for xbox is used.
When deploying for PC - both dx9 and dx11 shader pack is deployed and in settings if dx11 is detected, tesselation can be enabled.
It's all transparent to the game developer these days.

As for shaders, when developing for the Xbox, you are locked to instruction set of the GPU because mostly to really optimize for the console, some parts of shaders are written in assembler. But again those are game engine developers, game devs usually know squat about these things. :laugh: They drag sliders to get armor to be more shiny.