Do 10-bit monitors require a Quadro/Firepro card?

[Atnevon]

I cannot seem to find a simple answer to this question!

Anyway. So I found in my next display search, some talk brewing over whether a monitor is a true 8-bit vs 10-bit. Take these Dell Panels for instance:

Dell U2713HM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX1AJ7781

Dell U3014
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260132

From what I gather, 10-bit displays need a Quadro or Firepro card. But there are possible instances where this may not be the case with the right Geforce card?!?

I also saw that now for 2650x1440 it does not matter if you use HDMI (with rev 1.3 or higher) or Display Port.

(Also for AdobeRGB support you need HDMI 1.4 or DisplayPort)

I just wish this were laid out a bit simpler. Does anyone have a good experience with these? I know either way a display upgrade from my TN Samsung will be fine. Currently I was lucky to binge on a 780 Ti, so, wondering if its worth the extral leap in the panel for my photo/video work, in addition to the wind-down headshot sessions.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Require? Most likely not; however, the most you can send it is 8-bit if you don't have a card that supports 10-bit color.

NVIDIA and AMD intentionally leave >8-bit support out of their consumer graphics because they want you to pay the premium for the workstation cards.

I'd look at a good IPS monitor with 8-bits per color. The only way one can justify spending that kind of money on a >8-bit monitor is if it is coupled with an workstation card that can drive that increased palette. Graphic artists might be able to justify it as can the medical imaging industry but it's really kind of moot outside of those instances.

 

[Blín D'ñero]

No. Radeon cards have no problem sending 10-bits through DP or HDMI.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/10bit.shtml

 

[FX-GMC]

No. Radeon cards have no problem sending 10-bits through DP or HDMI.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/10bit.shtml

I haven't been able to find solid evidence that this is true. Just a few articles that are supposed to show you how to enable 10-bit color and people replying that it didn't work.

 

[Blín D'ñero]

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337428124&postcount=5

 

[FX-GMC]

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1337428124&postcount=5

Then we can safely assume that it works for all Radeon cards. Good call.

 

[Steevo]

Mine works fine.

 

[repman244]

So why do they put a "Enable 10-bit" in FirePro drivers then? It has to have some effect, no?

A thing to consider here is that very few monitors have NATIVE 10-bit support most are 8-bit but use interpolation to "achieve" 10-bit.

EDIT: The only monitor that I know that is a true native 10-bit is HP LP2480zx and it shows in the price.

 

[Easy Rhino]

The easiest and best way to find out is to call the manufacturer and ask...

 

[FX-GMC]

The easiest and best way to find out is to call the manufacturer and ask...

lmao. I do hope you are joking.

 

[Easy Rhino]

lmao. I do hope you are joking.

Not joking. It is very easy to call Dell support and ask them.

 

[FX-GMC]

Not joking. It is very easy to call Dell support and ask them.

I see.

 

[Blín D'ñero]

Then we can safely assume that it works for all Radeon cards. Good call.

I don't think so and i didn't say that.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2358239
Of course in that thread also some that claim it does not or can not work.
But you could try the suggestions in its Original Post.

If it works you should see no banding in the 10 bit test ramp picture (google for it, i have it here somewhere) when opened in Photoshop (CS4+ i believe, so CS6 should definitely work) in Windows 7 or 8.

I haven't tried it myself because alas my U2410's (on my 5870 cf system) turned out to being not truely 10-bit supporting, they only emulate it. Seem to remember that my U3011 (on my 7970cf system) is 10-bit, but that's my gaming PC (and no Photoshop or any 10-bit application installed) so i haven't tried there either and won't bother.

I guess that however it is not encouraged in the drivers it is supported by the hardware, from Radeon 4870 up to latest Radeons. But i haven't tested this myself.

 

[Mussels]

my sony HDTV says its running 10 bit over HDMI every time it turns on connected to my 7970

 

[4ghz]

Can an average Joe see the difference between 8 bits color and 10 bits color? I didn't think anyone can see the difference in a few million shades of color.

 

[Steevo]

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

http://documentation.apple.com/en/color/usermanual/index.html#chapter=1&section=3&tasks=true

HDMI 1.3:

• Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
• Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.
• Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 adds support for “x.v.Color™” (which is the consumer name describing the IEC 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard), which removes current color space limitations and enables the display of any color viewable by the human eye.
• New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
• Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates automatic audio synching capabilities that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.
• New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

 

[Atnevon]

Can an average Joe see the difference between 8 bits color and 10 bits color? I didn't think anyone can see the difference in a few million shades of color.

Average, not a bit. I'm a graphic designer/photographer so being color anal is a thing (when it needs to be)

I'll be honest and say that for designers or photographers not having a complete AdobeRGB workflow and their work consistantly going in tandom to precise printers, then the 10-bit isn't for them. THis is why I've decided on a Dell U2713HM. Its still a MUCH better panel to let me have a more accurate workflow, but also stil quick enough so I can get a good round of CS:Go or Borderlands 2 in between downtime.

Not joking. It is very easy to call Dell support and ask them.

In ordering my panel, the people on the phone told me I could not apply more than a 25% off coupon (of which I had a 30), so I had to use the online support chat. It took me nearly an hour and a half total to order this B. I did manage to get one total (with some extra coupons I had) for $345, so I am damn happy.

my sony HDTV says its running 10 bit over HDMI every time it turns on connected to my 7970

Can you show a screenie of your connection? I'm curious what's its saying when its connected. (not doubting or calling you out at all, I'm just extremely curious)

.Graphic artists might be able to justify it as can the medical imaging industry but it's really kind of moot outside of those instances.

Yes and no I think in many contexts. Since my work, now, does not go to presses or magazines, the color accuracy (to a SUPER level) isn't as important. A great IPS is WAY better in my research findings than any TN anyday. I found many 10-bit displays, but, all are 1K STARTING!

I would imagine if the circumstances were higher, then yes, I can foresee this. However in my own little world, the times I would justify a full 10-bit, quadro, calibrated, detailed setting would only be in an isolated room for full proofing and matching right before it went to press.

Quadro cards themselves are affordable. The ones that can keep a good framerate up in a good FPS though....ca....CHING!

The past while has been fun to research in all this nonetheless. Knowledge is power!

 

[Mussels]

crap quality since it popped up so fast i had to use burst mode to catch the text

as requested: 10 bit HDMI from an AMD card

 

[Aquinus]

crap quality since it popped up so fast i had to use burst mode to catch the text

as requested: 10 bit HDMI from an AMD card

Could you show us where in CCC you can set the color depth if the option is available or does it just default to 10bit and doesn't let you change it?

 

[Kaynar]

The real question here is do you NEED Adobe RGB (aka need 10bit). If you are just going to use sRGB then you don't need a 10 bit panel and good 8bit and 10bit panels will both produce excellent sRGB performance, especially if you own a calibrator, though from my own experience I did find Asus's PA246Q sRGB colours to be slightly oversaturated (could be bad for someone that actually wants to work on photography in sRGB). I had a 10bit Asus PA246Q over DP on my HD7970, but was using sRGB. Worked fine.

And yes, the average Joe CAN see the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit *when true 10 bit is actually being used and the picture was not made for that colour format*

 

[Mussels]

Could you show us where in CCC you can set the color depth if the option is available or does it just default to 10bit and doesn't let you change it?

no settings, that just shows up on the TV.

 

[Steevo]

Windows does not run 10 bit natively even though programs and the driver are capable of rendering it, so short of running the 10 bit gradient test in a 10 bit capable program it means absolutely nothing. Viewing even Blu-Ray at its 4:2:0 color/chroma is crap, yet many claim to have life altering experiences with its clarity.

In short 10 bit is useful for exactly perfection in still photo when dealing with minute gradients or anal retentive attention to colors with a hard splattering of OCD and too much time on your hands.

Rendering a 8 bit color in 10 bit still results in the same color being displayed.

 

[Blín D'ñero]

Windows does not run 10 bit natively even though programs and the driver are capable of rendering it, so short of running the 10 bit gradient test in a 10 bit capable program it means absolutely nothing. Viewing even Blu-Ray at its 4:2:0 color/chroma is crap, yet many claim to have life altering experiences with its clarity.

In short 10 bit is useful for exactly perfection in still photo when dealing with minute gradients or anal retentive attention to colors with a hard splattering of OCD and too much time on your hands.

Rendering a 8 bit color in 10 bit still results in the same color being displayed.

8 bits per color channel result in no more 16 million colors (a fraction of the colors we perceive in the real world). 10 bits is needed to at least reach Adobe RGB without banding. Banding is so obvious everybody sees it.
Plus, camera and printers already have a way larger color space than average (non-pro) displays so yes it's high time 10 bit displays become the standard.
So, if the hardware is supporting it, enjoy it!

 

[Steevo]

8 bits per color channel result in no more 16 million colors (a fraction of the colors we perceive in the real world). 10 bits is needed to at least reach Adobe RGB without banding. Banding is so obvious everybody sees it.
Plus, camera and printers already have a way larger color space than average (non-pro) displays so yes it's high time 10 bit displays become the standard.
So, if the hardware is supporting it, enjoy it!

Due to the alteration in chroma the banding is reduced significantly by dithering the two colors together. Will it truly matter to you or I and will we notice that its being done? Probably not.

 

[Chitz]

this reminds me of those 60hz vs 120hz discussions on youtube , good old days