Do you believe the new navi cards will be released with stable drivers?

[EarthDog]

Come on, you're better than this.

I was thinking the same thing...

Well, that's not fair either. For every user that has issues with their Navi card, there are probably 10 others that don't. But they don't lurk on reddit.
Problems with Navi are probably less widespread than 2080Ti's at lunch. Exceptt, unlike 2080Ti, Navi's problems are not fixed yet.

Theres probably 20 or more who don't run into issues.

I'd think the opposite versus the 2080ti problem...there's no way this amd admitted driver issue is less widespread than the failing nvidia cards. Youre talking an problem that blew over in a couple of months, versus issues that have been going on since launch and exacerbated with Adrenalin 2020 across their lineup.

Navi 14 has been very stable since day 1. Navi 10 is the only one that has had issues and that's likely because it was the very first product of a new architecture.

The issues are not limited to navi 10.

 

[Frick]

Yes, and they will cure impotence.

 

[ratirt]

For me and my system the drivers are already stable but I'm not everybody.

 

[John Naylor]

I don't think what I belive or don't believe will have any effect on what actually happens. That goes for performance, cost and everything else... when it comes out , we'll all know, specualtion is just geek brain masturbation.

 

[$ReaPeR$]

For me and my system the drivers are already stable but I'm not everybody.

For me also. One of the reasons I went vega and not navi was the stability and reliability that comes with an "old" piece of equipment. I don't understand people that buy the "bleeding edge" of tech and expect stability, literally all companies have issues with the first iterations of new tech and that's one of the main reasons why big companies go for the previous gen of hardware and update software long after the bugs have been ironed out. You can't have everything in this world. BTW that's one of the costs of being a tech enthusiast, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to be. So I would suggest to everyone here to take responsibility for their choices before outsourcing the blame.

 

[bug]

For me also. One of the reasons I went vega and not navi was the stability and reliability that comes with an "old" piece of equipment. I don't understand people that buy the "bleeding edge" of tech and expect stability, literally all companies have issues with the first iterations of new tech and that's one of the main reasons why big companies go for the previous gen of hardware and update software long after the bugs have been ironed out. You can't have everything in this world. BTW that's one of the costs of being a tech enthusiast, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to be. So I would suggest to everyone here to take responsibility for their choices before outsourcing the blame.

I don't buy into this "don't buy bleeding edge if you want stability". I can buy a "bleeding edge" CPU and it will be stable. "Bleeding edge" SSD, RAM, motherboards*, even video card from Nvidia? Not a problem. Just because AMD has about the worst drivers in the industry**, doesn't mean others can't do it.

* Motherboards sometimes have issues, but only specific models and they're quickly straightened out. Depending on configurations, most bugs may not affect you at all. It's rare for a motherboard to need a new revision to sort things out.
** "Worst" in this context is relative, the drivers are still pretty good overall.

 

[HenrySomeone]

Do you believe the new navi cards will be released with stable drivers?

No, lol

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The issues are not limited to navi 10.

Name one issue that's been persistent on Navi 14 cards. I've yet to experience one and I've been on the card since launch.

If RDNA2 has a solid launch like Navi 14, it won't have many/any issues. If it does, it could be like Navi 10. We just don't know and won't know until it launches.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Enough nonsense ill leave these here

Nvidia
"

Open Issues (Updated 6/30/20):

• [Notebook][H-Clone]: With the integrated graphics processor as the clone source, display settings cannot be changed from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [200594188]
• [Sunset Overdrive]: The game may display random green corruption if Depth of Field is enabled from in-game settings. [2750770]
• [VR]: HDCP errors occur with Valve Index VR. [2967616]
• [Call of Duty: Modern Warfare]: Color banding can occur in the game after enabling Image Sharpening from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [2889337/3028436]
• [Call of Duty - Warzone]: Freestyle does not work. [200593020]
• [Forza Motorsport 7]: The curb may display a black strip during a race on certain tracks. [2781776]
• [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Ansel/Freestyle]: The Ansel & Freestyle tabs are unselectable. [2810884]
• [Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege][Vulkan][G-SYNC]: When playing the game in Vulkan mode with G-SYNC enabled, flickering occurs after switching the game between full-screen and windowed mode.[200578641] To work around, either disable G-SYNC or play using an API other than Vulkan.
• [Kepler]: With SLI/multi-GPU and G-SYNC enabled, TDRs may occur after launching an app [200628981]
• [Advanced Optimus][The Witcher 3 WILD HUNT]: The game launches minimized when NVIDIA Control Panel Manage Display mode is set to Automatic or Optimus and cannot be restored to full screen. [200628973]
• [Notebook]: Some Pascal-based notebooks w/ high refresh rate displays may randomly drop to 60Hz during gameplay. [3009452]
• [Notebook][G-SYNC]: Graphical corruption occurs when windowed G-SYNC+V-Sync is On while running applications in Clone/Duplicate mode. [200628911]
• [Notebook]: LVDS-display goes blank upon rebooting the system after driver installation on some systems. [200627952]
• Video playback on the secondary display lags/freezes while playing a game on the primary display if Hardware-accelerated GPU Scheduling is enabled [200586262]
• Adjustments in Lumetri color panel causes video to appear noisy in Adobe Premiere [3038602]
• [DX12]Shadow of the Tomb Raider may crash on launch if Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling is enabled [3037544]
• 144Hz capable HDMI displays will not go above 120hz [3038540]
• [451.48][Detroit: Become Human] Game may randomly crash

AMD
"

• Radeon RX Vega Series and Radeon VII graphics products may experience performance drops when Performance Metrics Overlay is open while a game is running.
• Some game titles may experience hitching when Instant Replay is enabled on Radeon RX 5000 series system configurations.
• Enhanced Sync may cause a black screen to occur when enabled on some games and system configurations. Any users who may be experiencing issues with Enhanced Sync enabled should disable it as a temporary workaround.
• Using Edge™ web browser to playback video content with a multi display system configuration may cause a system hang or crash after extended periods of use.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report higher than expected idle clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products. Performance and power consumption are not impacted by this incorrect reporting.
• Some games may exhibit stutter intermittently during gameplay on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products.
• Radeon RX Vega series graphics products may experience a system crash or TDR when performing multiple task switches using Alt+Tab.
• Modifying the HDMI Scaling slider may cause FPS to become locked to 30.
• Desktop or In-game corruption may occur intermittently when HDR is enabled.
• Some users may still experience black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay. AMD will continue to monitor and investigate reports of these issues closely.

who has the longer list. (As ever the fanbois focus on this one line rather than the three bits of evidence both GPU makers ALWAYS have faults(my point))

Perhaps look here for a reality check

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/384770/geforce-45148-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

 

[efikkan]

The problems with Navi drivers are misunderstood by most people.
Firstly, the stability issues with black screens, crashes etc. is not a Navi problem, it's an AMD driver problem. The reported issues with Navi were also affecting Vega and Polaris owners, so Navi is clearly not alone here. Secondly, this has been a recurring subject with Vega and Polaris launches too, it's just that people forget. Navi have very few ISA differences from Vega (and relative few from Polaris too), so they effectively use the same drivers, and any underlying bug should affect them all.

With AMD having a stable ISA for so long, it should have allowed them to make the most stable drivers ever. Yet these issues gets a lot of attention at every release. With Navi it seemed to get extra attention, probably because many were returning to AMD after many years with Nvidia, and were expecting the same level of quality*. There is certainly a difference in quality here, but whether this matters is up to the individual.

In software development there are two basic ways to solve a problem; fix the underlying problem or handle/suppress the symptoms. What AMD have been doing for the last months(years) is the latter. And while that may be necessary as a temporary fix while an overhaul is being worked on, it's never a long term solution. A proper rewrite may take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, but AMD have been doing firefighting with this for years now, there is no excuse any more.

*) I'm not in any way claiming Nvidia's drivers are perfect. But we're talking about serious systemic crashes, not minor glitching in a single game here.

 

[RealNeil]

I'll wait for a while to see if indeed this IS a problem. Then I'll probably buy into it as long as there is no shit-show with the cards.

 

[nguyen]

• Radeon RX Vega Series and Radeon VII graphics products may experience performance drops when Performance Metrics Overlay is open while a game is running.
• Some game titles may experience hitching when Instant Replay is enabled on Radeon RX 5000 series system configurations.
• Enhanced Sync may cause a black screen to occur when enabled on some games and system configurations. Any users who may be experiencing issues with Enhanced Sync enabled should disable it as a temporary workaround.
• Using Edge™ web browser to playback video content with a multi display system configuration may cause a system hang or crash after extended periods of use.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report higher than expected idle clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products. Performance and power consumption are not impacted by this incorrect reporting.
• Some games may exhibit stutter intermittently during gameplay on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products.
• Radeon RX Vega series graphics products may experience a system crash or TDR when performing multiple task switches using Alt+Tab.
• Modifying the HDMI Scaling slider may cause FPS to become locked to 30.
• Desktop or In-game corruption may occur intermittently when HDR is enabled.
• Some users may still experience black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay. AMD will continue to monitor and investigate reports of these issues closely.

who has the longer list.

If you understand the word "some" correctly, it could mean every single game or every AMD owner out there is affected .
Of course with Nvidia knows exactly where the problem is, the list will be much longer vs AMD who has no clue where the problems are...
FYI those release notes have been in AMD driver for ages and they are still not fixed, just to show how incompetent the driver team is.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Enough nonsense ill leave these here

Nvidia
"

Open Issues (Updated 6/30/20):

• [Notebook][H-Clone]: With the integrated graphics processor as the clone source, display settings cannot be changed from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [200594188]
• [Sunset Overdrive]: The game may display random green corruption if Depth of Field is enabled from in-game settings. [2750770]
• [VR]: HDCP errors occur with Valve Index VR. [2967616]
• [Call of Duty: Modern Warfare]: Color banding can occur in the game after enabling Image Sharpening from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [2889337/3028436]
• [Call of Duty - Warzone]: Freestyle does not work. [200593020]
• [Forza Motorsport 7]: The curb may display a black strip during a race on certain tracks. [2781776]
• [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Ansel/Freestyle]: The Ansel & Freestyle tabs are unselectable. [2810884]
• [Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege][Vulkan][G-SYNC]: When playing the game in Vulkan mode with G-SYNC enabled, flickering occurs after switching the game between full-screen and windowed mode.[200578641] To work around, either disable G-SYNC or play using an API other than Vulkan.
• [Kepler]: With SLI/multi-GPU and G-SYNC enabled, TDRs may occur after launching an app [200628981]
• [Advanced Optimus][The Witcher 3 WILD HUNT]: The game launches minimized when NVIDIA Control Panel Manage Display mode is set to Automatic or Optimus and cannot be restored to full screen. [200628973]
• [Notebook]: Some Pascal-based notebooks w/ high refresh rate displays may randomly drop to 60Hz during gameplay. [3009452]
• [Notebook][G-SYNC]: Graphical corruption occurs when windowed G-SYNC+V-Sync is On while running applications in Clone/Duplicate mode. [200628911]
• [Notebook]: LVDS-display goes blank upon rebooting the system after driver installation on some systems. [200627952]
• Video playback on the secondary display lags/freezes while playing a game on the primary display if Hardware-accelerated GPU Scheduling is enabled [200586262]
• Adjustments in Lumetri color panel causes video to appear noisy in Adobe Premiere [3038602]
• [DX12]Shadow of the Tomb Raider may crash on launch if Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling is enabled [3037544]
• 144Hz capable HDMI displays will not go above 120hz [3038540]
• [451.48][Detroit: Become Human] Game may randomly crash

AMD
"

• Radeon RX Vega Series and Radeon VII graphics products may experience performance drops when Performance Metrics Overlay is open while a game is running.
• Some game titles may experience hitching when Instant Replay is enabled on Radeon RX 5000 series system configurations.
• Enhanced Sync may cause a black screen to occur when enabled on some games and system configurations. Any users who may be experiencing issues with Enhanced Sync enabled should disable it as a temporary workaround.
• Using Edge™ web browser to playback video content with a multi display system configuration may cause a system hang or crash after extended periods of use.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report higher than expected idle clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products. Performance and power consumption are not impacted by this incorrect reporting.
• Some games may exhibit stutter intermittently during gameplay on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products.
• Radeon RX Vega series graphics products may experience a system crash or TDR when performing multiple task switches using Alt+Tab.
• Modifying the HDMI Scaling slider may cause FPS to become locked to 30.
• Desktop or In-game corruption may occur intermittently when HDR is enabled.
• Some users may still experience black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay. AMD will continue to monitor and investigate reports of these issues closely.

who has the longer list.

Perhaps look here for a reality check

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/384770/geforce-45148-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

lol,who has a longer list are you serious
how about you look at what the list says
amd is grasping in the dark.it's an absoulte s**tshow

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

If you understand the word "some" correctly, it could mean every single game or every AMD owner out there is affected .
Of course with Nvidia knows exactly where the problem is, the list will be much longer vs AMD who has no clue where the problems are...
FYI those release notes have been in AMD driver for ages and they are still not fixed, just to show how incompetent the driver team is.

lol,who has a longer list are you serious
how about you look at what the list says
amd is grasping in the dark.it's an absoulte s**tshow

Defensive postures initiated ,haha.

Crack on delusioists.

This Mr cucker is why I scarcely post backed facts, because delusional people will make what they want regardless, hence it's a waste of effort.

As I said ALL chips from ALL three vendors enthusiasts care about maintain fault lists for each part and driver, at ALL times,. FACT.

 

[efikkan]

lol,who has a longer list are you serious
how about you look at what the list says
amd is grasping in the dark.it's an absoulte s**tshow

I have run into management people who count bugs and vulnerabilities as if they are all the same, and even plot diagrams etc.

And code quality is measured in KLOCs…

People have very different thresholds for what they regards as acceptable or not. Also, some only game occasionally. While I wouldn't call it a "s**tshow", the current state of AMD's drivers is unacceptable for a machine doing productive work, especially development.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Defensive postures initiated ,haha.

Crack on delusioists.

This Mr cucker is why I scarcely post backed facts, because delusional people will make what they want regardless, hence it's a waste of effort.

As I said ALL chips from ALL three vendors enthusiasts care about maintain fault lists for each part and driver, at ALL times,. FACT.

what you are saying is utterly ridiculous and please stop picking on me to divert,you're the one that's embarassing yourself,your aversion towards me has nothing to do with it.
you're saying that if I have a runny nose and a cough and fever it's worse than you with full blown aids
aids is one,I have three

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

what you are saying is utterly ridiculous and please stop picking on me to divert,you're the one that's embarassing yourself,your aversion towards me has nothing to do with it.
you're saying that if I have a runny nose and a cough and fever it's worse than you with full blown aids
aids is one,I have three

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/384770/geforce-45148-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

Note i didn't just post one type of proof.

Hyper exaggerating the importance of one line of text while ignoring three fact-based arguments is ridiculous son.

 

[cucker tarlson]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/384770/geforce-45148-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

Note i didn't just post one type of proof.

Hyper exaggerating the importance of one line of text while ignoring three fact-based arguments is ridiculous son.

dude,you're in a navi thread counting the number of nvidia driver issues with no regard to what the actual issues are
stahp

that "one line of text" said "any card can crash in any game after extended gameplay"
and there were several lines like this.how is this NOT a fact to you ?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

dude,you're in a navi thread counting the number of nvidia driver issues with no regard to what the actual issues are
stahp

that "one line of text" said "any card can crash in any game after extended gameplay"
and there were several lines like this.how is this NOT a fact to you ?

Dude I'm in a Navi thread pointing out All brand's have issues all the time, and 100% proving it.

Brand agnosticly.

As apposed to insinuating anything else is even possible.

It's impossible given the FACTS presented for anyone to launch anything without issues.

Quite simple really.

And a no point have I adjusted what I said from the start my first post said faultless is impossible, get an Xbox, I stand by it, that's the closest experience you can get to issues free.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Dude I'm in a Navi thread pointing out All brand's have issues all the time, and 100% proving it.

Brand agnosticly.

yeah but no one said nvidia doesn't have their own

but it seems that nvidia is the intel of the GPU world

it's the furthest thing from

 

[efikkan]

I think this thread has descended into the usual trench warfare.
And let's stop pretending there are no issues, even the thread starter himself(/herself) have experienced it.

The thread starter asked the question whether the new cards will be released with stable drivers?

So to answer that;
So far I've seen nothing but patchwork from AMD and no indication that they have a major new driver rewrite coming. Until they do resolve these problems properly, they will basically be playing "whack-a-mole" with patches, and Navi 2x will probably be no different than Navi 1x, Vega 1x/2x and Polaris. And the reception will probably be pretty mixed as with Navi 1x.

If AMD ever wants to grab 40% market share again, they need to take drivers seriously. It doesn't matter if they cards are kick-ass on paper if the drivers continue to have these major issues. They should tear out all gimmicks from their driver and rewrite all the weak parts of it and make the best driver ever, that will sell more cards than gimmicks.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Except that Polaris 2x and 3x didn't have much in the way of extraordinary driver issues nor did Vega 2x. That's the point: Navi 2x should have a smoother launch than Navi 1x did but the new features (like raytracing) may be rough around the edges.

AMD spent the last six months refining drivers because of all the bugs introduced by the Radeon Software makeover. When's the last time NVIDIA even did a major UI redesign? Decades ago?

FYI, latest data I could find showed AMD was at 32.1% market share. 8% is unlikely but plausible, especially seeing how Ampere got stuck on an inferior 8nm Samsung node while Navi 2x is coming from TSMC N7P node (refinement on N7 used in Navi 1x).

 

[EarthDog]

Name one issue that's been persistent on Navi 14 cards. I've yet to experience one and I've been on the card since launch.

Respectfully, anecdotes aren't helpful.

The same issues effecting navi 10... black screen. The driver notes do not discern nor discriminate between the chips.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Respectfully, anecdotes aren't helpful.

Nor is baseless attacks. I speak from experience.

The same issues effecting navi 10... black screen.

Never had nor have I ever heard of anyone having it on Navi 14 while it was quite rampant on Navi 10.

Edit: Here's one, card was likely just bad:

5500 XT problem.

Hi everybody. I've got a problem with one of my 5500 XT cards. I been using it with 3970X threadripper, 64 GB corsair vengeance ram, Asus TRX-40 pro Prime, Corsair AX850, Samsung 970 Pro 1TB. The problem is pretty weird. Computer boots to BIOS and I can see that everything is in order...

www.techpowerup.com

...that's literally the only one.

Meanwhile...Navi10:

AMD is Investigating Black Screen Driver Issues on Radeon Cards

AMD is aware of problems with black screens and Radeon GPU driver crashes and is currently investigating the problem.

www.extremetech.com

...they spent the last six months trying to fix that. It's an illusive bastard.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I think this thread has descended into the usual trench warfare.
And let's stop pretending there are no issues, even the thread starter himself(/herself) have experienced it.

The thread starter asked the question whether the new cards will be released with stable drivers?

So to answer that;
So far I've seen nothing but patchwork from AMD and no indication that they have a major new driver rewrite coming. Until they do resolve these problems properly, they will basically be playing "whack-a-mole" with patches, and Navi 2x will probably be no different than Navi 1x, Vega 1x/2x and Polaris. And the reception will probably be pretty mixed as with Navi 1x.

If AMD ever wants to grab 40% market share again, they need to take drivers seriously. It doesn't matter if they cards are kick-ass on paper if the drivers continue to have these major issues. They should tear out all gimmicks from their driver and rewrite all the weak parts of it and make the best driver ever, that will sell more cards than gimmicks.

I didn't see anyone saying there's no issues, quite the opposite.